Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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There's a lot of weird errors in the Misty Escape feature for the Vampire.
Misty Escape. If the vampire drops to 0 Hit Points outside its resting place, the vampire uses Shape-Shift to become mist (no action required). If it can’t use Shape-Shift, it is destroyed.
While it has 0 Hit Points in mist form, it can’t return to its vampire form, and it must reach its resting place within 2 hours or be destroyed. Once in its resting place, it returns to its vampire form and has the Paralyzed condition until it regains any Hit Points, and it regains 1 Hit Point after spending 1 hour there.
For instance, is it immune to all damage in mist form, even the damage from sunlight? Can it just die if it takes any damage in mist form? Is it stable, if it can't return to its vampire form, can it still return to its bat form?
Can someone answer this please?
Greetings PPSS2022,
1st Question: Yes it still takes Damage from Sunlight in Mist form which is stated in the Stat Block:
"While in mist form, the vampire can’t take any actions, speak, or manipulate objects. It is weightless and can enter an enemy’s space and stop there. If air can pass through a space, the mist can do so, but it can’t pass through liquid. It has Resistance to all damage, except the damage it takes from sunlight."
2nd Question: Yes it can die if it takes damage in mist form. Per the Stat Block (reading between the lines):
"While it has 0 Hit Points in mist form, it can’t return to its vampire form, and it must reach its resting place within 2 hours or be destroyed."
"It has Resistance to all damage, except the damage it takes from sunlight."
3rd Question: No it cannot shape shift to Bat form at 0HP as it is at 0HP and not able to take actions:
"While in mist form, the vampire can’t take any actions"
"While it has 0 Hit Points in mist form, it can’t return to its vampire form, and it must reach its resting place within 2 hours or be destroyed."
Think of the Mist Form as like an 'auto-pilot' of sorts... When the Vampire is reduced to 0HP they poof into a mist, and the mist takes over trying to get back to its resting place so it can start to regenerate.
Hope this helps!
Cheers :)
Breathe, dragons; sing of the First World, forged out of chaos and painted with beauty.
Sing of Bahamut, the Platinum, molding the shape of the mountains and rivers;
Sing too of Chromatic Tiamat, painting all over the infinite canvas.
Partnered, they woke in the darkness; partnered, they labored in acts of creation.
Not sure why you think any of these are errors, it just seems you need to read the stat block:
No, nowhere on the stat block does it say it's mist form gives it immunity to damage. Mist form gives it resistance to all damage, except the sunlight damage.
RAW no, unless the DM has given the vampire death saving throws. The Misty Escape overrides death at 0 hit points, and instead it remains at 0 until it reaches it's resting place, or the 2 hours expire.
Being stable at 0 hit points only applies if the creature gets death saving throws, so RAW it's not in a state where being stable applies
No, because:
Anything that stops you taking actions stops you taking bonus actions as well. The only thing that can end its mist form is returning to it's resting place
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Thanks for the clarification!
One more thing I wondered: Is the vampire immune to sunlight while Misty Escape is active? (I.e, if you caught the mist in sunlight after one round after Misty Escape was triggered)
There's nothing in the stat block about it being immune to sunlight under any circumstances, so it's not immune while Misty Escape is active, or at any other time.
pronouns: he/she/they
Things do what they say they do. The vampire stat block does not use the word "immune" or "immunity" anywhere on it
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No, what I meant was that if you caught the 0HP mist in sunlight, would it die? If it didn't, that would seem kind of weird.
Davyd explained what happens if it takes damage in mist form in post #3 above.
pronouns: he/she/they
You've already asked that and I already answered:
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I was kind of stumped, too, as I read this thread.
The thing most supported by the rules is that the Misty Escape only applies specifically to a vampire in vampire-form or bat-form; Misty Escape doesn't bail the vampire out if it's in mist form. And even that's a bit of a gray area; can you shapeshift into mist if you're already mist? Common sense says no, but there's at least a little interpretation occurring there.
While there's no specific rule for the weird situation of a creature having 0 hp and not having the destroyed condition (excepting the whole dying / death saves rules, which notably aren't invoked by the stat block), the most straightforward answer is that any further damage of any kind destroys the vampire.
Which really seems like an oversight. They could have just as easily written it to say the mist form is immune to all damage, and then it would ensure any number of PC shenanigans can't derail the iconic escape-and-return trope.
No, it only applies to mist form as a vampire can't enter bat form once misty escape has triggered because it can't take actions while in mist form or while misty escape is active.
Yes it does, because the vampire can't die while misty escape is active unless the 2 hour time limit runs out. They're at 0 hit points but misty escape replaces them dying. They can't lose further hit points so damage does nothing.
No because again, you can't take actions while in mist form. It's not a "common sense" thing, and there's no "little interpretation occurring" because the rules are explicit. Shapeshifting is a bonus action, and anything the prohibits actions also prohibits bonus actions.
There's no destroyed condition. A monster dies when it reaches 0 hit points unless a more specific rule overrides that, such as misty escape.
There's no rule that says that—a creature dies when they are reduced to zero hit points. Taking damage at zero hit points only matters if you're making death saving throws, which by default does not apply to monsters.
It's not, everything is covered here by the rules in the stat block as has been explained.
It doesn't need to, given you can't go below 0 hit points, taking damage at 0 does nothing if you're not making death saving throws, and the misty escape overrides dying when they initially reach 0.
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It's possible I was unclear.
I agree the vampire cannot take actions while in mist form. I was arguing that the rules for the Misty Escape trait only triggers if the vampire is not already in mist form.
And that's based on the idea that you can't shape-shift into the same form (ie: mist form into mist form), which seems like a gray area to me. And if that trait isn't triggered, it seems like the RAW support that the vampire is destroyed if it takes further damage, because the trait no longer bails it out/negates the vampire being destroyed.
Some examples to help talk this out:
1. a vampire in mist form with 40hp gets hit by a fireball: it has resistance to the damage and probably survives to slip away to fight another day.
2. a vampire in bat form with 1 hp is hit by an arrow: It drops to 0 hp, its Misty Escape trait triggers. It shape-shifts to misty form (not an action) but none of the rules for dying are invoked. It tries to move to its resting place.
3. a vampire in mist form with 0 hp is hit by a magic longsword: we know it has resistance to the damage, but ... are there rules for a creature taking damage when it already has 0 hp? There are rules for dying and making death saves; normally damage just hastens death under those rules. But those aren't happening in this case.
* does taking further damage at this point "drop" the vampire to 0 hp? I don't think there is a rule for this, and it's a DM call.
* if something with 0 hp can take damage, does it trigger Misty Escape again? If so, can that trait shape-shift a vampire in mist form into mist form? I think that's also gray enough that a DM needs to rule.
I think this is fairly easy for a DM to adjudicate. I think the RAW come up short.
Nothing prohibits Misty Escape from triggering while in mist form. All that would happen is that no transformation happens/is required because it's already in its mist form (whether or not it can shapeshift into the same form is moot—either it can so it does and nothing changes, or it can't so it doesn't and nothing changes).
The trait isn't triggered by transforming, it's triggered by going to 0 hp, which causes two things to happen—it shape shifts and the replacement effect for dying kicks in. They're not contingent on each other, which is why the trait says "While at 0 hp in its mist form", not "When it transforms into its mist form"
No, RAW doesn't come up short because RAW covers everything:
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I'm comin around :)
My initial read of the trait was due to the if-then its first sentence sets up. It's IF "dropped to 0 hp", THEN "shape-shift". So I was concluding that the later portions of the trait (as written, anyway) depended on that shape-shift.
Taken more separately, though, I like your read that the later portions also occur, no matter what.
I agree that you can't go below 0 hp. The rules don't bother explaining what happens when creatures take more damage at 0 hp in this situation, because outside of this edge case this wouldn't matter. Easy call for a DM. Assuming Misty Escape continuously overrides the vampire dying is obviously what was intended.
While I enjoy these deep dives into the game's mechanics, I don't mind minor gaps in the rules. A more legal-ese approach would have been less fun with probably just as many oversights. Anyway, appreciate the discussion!
You're creating complexity and confusion seemingly for the sake of it
Damage reduces your hit points. Your hit points cannot go below 0. Therefore taking damage at 0 does nothing. Effects that trigger when you drop to 0 do not trigger when taking damage at 0 because you're not dropping to 0 given you're already at 0.
Think of it like this—say you're playing a card game and an effect says "Discard a card. When you discard a card, you lose 1 life." If you have no cards to discard, you can't discard a card, so you don't lose 1 life. Or a boardgame that starts on a space and an effect says "Go back 2 spaces. When you do, pay 1 coin" If you're on the starting space you can't go back 2 spaces, so you don't discard 1 coin.
The effect is not triggered on taking damage, it's triggered on that damage reducing you to 0.
This isn't a deep dive nor legal-esque, this is just ignoring what the rules actually say and do. There are no oversights, just obtuseness
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I think we're just approaching this differently?
I'm hunting for rules that would apply to the various parts of this situation (and not finding many, because it's weird edge case).
You're more applying reasonable logic. I'm not sure we disagree about how to handle this situation in any meaningful way.
Have a great weekend, sir.