Yeah past is past, can't change it. Can try to salvage it, but without those unique IDs on physical copies I can't think of a way. But let's not nay say, assume it cannot and will never be done, only present problems and justifications, and automatically come to WotC/Curse's defense when they can explain themselves. Let's present solutions and strive for the ideal.
Pursuing an ideal to the point that you insist on excluding any real information - which is what problems and "justifications" that come to the "defense" (which is a strange phrase to use, unless you think of what you are doing as "offense" against those companies) - are, is a waste of time and effort.
What you should do is embrace the problems, then try to actually solve them - not ignore them and present hollow "solutions" that are out of touch with reality.
So here's your first one: How will the expense of putting a system by which purchases can be genuinely verified (by which I mean a person can submit that they own a book, use a particular piece of evidence, and then that book is not able to be claimed successfully by another person) be covered? Would you prefer it to be an altruistically motivated shot to the foot on the part of WotC, deliberately cutting their own profits despite what risks that entails, or would you prefer it to be an increase in the overall price paid by customers, despite that it would likely have to be all customers, not just the ones that want both styles of product?
And your second: Literally how is asking for a discount from Source A because you bought a book from Source B any different from expecting a discount from Source A because you are buying something from Source A that you have already purchased at least one of?
Finances: Companies lose money all the time for a purpose. Why would a mobile gaming company lose tons of dollars on a Kate Upton commercial during the superbowl? Why would we be able to get a $5 footlong or Hot'n'Ready? To get us in the door and sell us other cool stuff that is profitable. I'm suggesting that purpose be User Acquisition. Like I said, I think there are a lot of D&D fans out there not willing to spend a dime because of the business models aka price points and distribution methods. Yes, enough people are spending lots of money on their current business model that they are at least staying afloat maybe more. But they are failing to reach their entire user base. They have a real piracy problem. For every dollar non-spender d&d fans withhold, you spenders have to make up for. If there was a business model that reached out to many more users then all you current spenders would get to pay much less. Look at what happened in the music industry suffering from piracy. It wasn't until distributors like Spotify came out that people were finally like, "Oh, this is worth the money/ad listening to not have to do all the work I do to pirate my music." First problem explained.
how is asking for a discount from Source A because you bought a book from Source B any different from expecting a discount from Source A because you are buying something from Source A?
Why does it have to be different? Just because the principal of not paying for the same content over and over again isn't able to be perfectly implemented in the real world covering every edge case all the time doesn't mean that we don't do what we can. I feel like all these things are solved by common sense. If something doesn't work then don't do it, but do what you can. For example, when you buy a book from a retailer you could register your product online with your WotC account. If you do, and your book gets torn up or wet or something, you could bring it back to any retailer and have them look up your account. They prove it's you. You give them the broken book. You pay for just the re-distribution costs only (not to WotC again). Maybe they can't replace lost or stolen ones, maybe they can do it 1 time. W/e I can think of a million better ways than the current. If you can't think of 10 ways around the details then use your imagination.
Because if it isn't different, then it is equally as "well no, of course not that, that would be ridiculous."
Is not about not being "perfectly implemented" it's about treating this one specific case as being so different from all the other cases as to ignore that no one thinks it's reasonable to ask for the same thing except in this specific case, and yet not explaining why this case should be any different.
Well said. The reason why it's different is because physical distribution is different than digital distribution. I don't have to worry about my digital copies getting wet or torn. I also don't have to pay for materials or shipping. (This is the part I thought was obvious) The thing that doesn't change across platforms is the content.
Well said. The reason why it's different is because physical distribution is different than digital distribution. I don't have to worry about my digital copies getting wet or torn. I also don't have to pay for materials or shipping. (This is the part I thought was obvious) The thing that doesn't change across platforms is the content.
That's no different than saying "The reason why it's different is because digital distribution is different than physical distribution. I don't have to worry about my physical copies server being unavailable or slow because of heavy traffic. I also don't have to pay for monitoring and maintenance. (This is the part I thought was obvious) The thing that doesn't change across platforms is the content."
By which I mean your statements are mostly true, but also mostly irrelevant.
Except I want to put different emphasis on that "the content" part. You are right that it is the content that doesn't change - but the content is what enables the playing of the game, and that's the most important of all the parts being paid for. The playing of the game is the primary driving reason to bother getting any of the content in the first place, so that should be held as the largest portion of what is being paid for by any fan looking at whether or not the cost asked is worth paying. Yes, I realize that very thought is what is leading to "I don't wanna pay more, I can already play the game." But I contend that it should also be leading to "I don't want this other thing because I can already play the game." rather than "So give me this other thing for free (or at an even greater discount than the already cheapest possible legal means of obtaining the game prices)."
Well said. The reason why it's different is because physical distribution is different than digital distribution. I don't have to worry about my digital copies getting wet or torn. I also don't have to pay for materials or shipping. (This is the part I thought was obvious) The thing that doesn't change across platforms is the content.
It is true that the rules and adventures are the same. But for a person to consider that the content is the same just shows that the person did not use DDB. And as the time goes and more and more features are added that difference will only grow. In my opinion this is the core part people are missing on this thread, also on all posts about physical vs digital.
I would recommend as a start during your D&D sessions try to use the basic rules to find rules every time a doubt arises. Unfortunately right now there are no free adventures, but I am sure someday will be (maybe even the one from magic the gathering planeshift), but I assure you that preparing sessions here on DDB speed up the process a lot. Not even to mention the character creation. And this is not a free bonus for being digital, this format is far way better than a pdf, but that also have costs to develop. And those costs is what we pay.
I don't follow why my statements are irrelevant, but following your emphasis ...
The words you put in my mouth are not the words I'd say. I'm actually saying I want to spend more. I want to be confident in the content & distribution I would pay for. I wouldn't say "I don't wanna pay more, I can already play the game." I would say "I can play this game, I like it, I want to pay for more cool stuff rather than pay for the same thing over and over again."
Well said. The reason why it's different is because physical distribution is different than digital distribution. I don't have to worry about my digital copies getting wet or torn. I also don't have to pay for materials or shipping. (This is the part I thought was obvious) The thing that doesn't change across platforms is the content.
It is true that the rules and adventures are the same. But for a person to consider that the content is the same just shows that the person did not use DDB. And as the time goes and more and more features are added that difference will only grow. In my opinion this is the core part people are missing on this thread, also on all posts about physical vs digital.
I would recommend as a start during your D&D sessions try to use the basic rules to find rules every time a doubt arises. Unfortunately right now there are no free adventures, but I am sure someday will be (maybe even the one from magic the gathering planeshift), but I assure you that preparing sessions here on DDB speed up the process a lot. Not even to mention the character creation. And this is not a free bonus for being digital, this format is far way better than a pdf, but that also have costs to develop. And those costs is what we pay.
You've missed my point. I have used DDB and I really like the toolset. I'd like to pay for the toolset & digital distribution, not the content again. Instead I have an indirect price for the tools through the repurchase of the content. Their business model is that the cool tools justify the repurchase of the content. I'm saying I'd be more willing to pay for what I don't already have (digital distribution that can be used with the cool tools I can now access) as opposed to getting most of the tools for free and have to repay for the same content ... again.
You've missed my point. I have used DDB and I really like the toolset. I'd like to pay for the toolset & digital distribution, not the content again. Instead I have an indirect price for the tools through the repurchase of the content. Their business model is that the cool tools justify the repurchase of the content. I'm saying I'd be more willing to pay for what I don't already have (digital distribution that can be used with the cool tools I can now access) as opposed to getting most of the tools for free and have to repay for the same content ... again.
Understood. Well in this case this should be addressed to WOTC, I don't think curse has any ways to help in this issue.
What tools does D&D Beyond offer that aren't free?
Technically I think all of D&D Beyond Tools are free other than limitations with the number of characters you can create, which can be removed with a subscription, which you appear to be fine with.
You are saying you are okay with using the tools, but not buying the content? That is what D&D Beyond offers, however, due to license agreements most likely something curse is able to work around, you have to buy the extra content to use it with their FREE tools.
Edit: To my understanding, it sounds like you are confusing the integration of WOTC content with the Free tools D&D Beyond offers you. It sounds as though you feel that the WOTC content is apart of the tools, which isn't technically correct. The WOTC content is just that, content. D&D Beyond is a set of tools that allow you to access such content or even lots of free homebrew content (which they plan on extended to races and class archetypes).
You are saying you are okay with using the tools, but not buying the content?
it sounds like you are confusing the integration of WOTC content with the Free tools D&D Beyond offers you. It sounds as though you feel that the WOTC content is [apart from/a part of?] the tools, which isn't technically correct. The WOTC content is just that, content. D&D Beyond is a set of tools that allow you to access such content or even lots of free homebrew content (which they plan on extended to races and class archetypes).
I'm saying I'm ok with buying the tools and I'm ok with buying the content once. What I'm not okay with is having to ask myself "Are the DDB tools valuable enough to justify re-purchasing the same content again?" or "What if I buy this content via DDB but then all my friends want to use roll20 or hard copies/paper? I don't want to have to buy the content again just to switch distributor/platform. I'd be willing to pay for each distributor to switch, but not for the content again." The current business model has led to my indecision which has lead to my inaction despite my love for the game and willingness to spend.
Okay, so you are annoyed with how licensing works.
No, I get that. It's kind of annoying to have to buy the same content from multiple sources just to use the content. I do understand why D&D Beyond works the way it does.
To me, it really sounds like you and the people you play with need to have a serious discussion of how you want to play and go all in on that route. Personally, that is what my friends and I did. We choose D&D beyond in the long round, because of the content sharing feature. It was nice for me as the DM to just buy all the content once and then get the master tier and share all of the content to my friends. We were also leaning towards physical copies but ended up liking how easy it was to get spell information on the character sheet from beyond.
Why are we still talking about this? Guess what, you are NEVER going to get a free copy on DDB, or a discounted copy, for having bought the physical books. It's NEVER going to happen, no matter how much you complain that it should..
Yes, I don't think it will ever end. i wonder if Roll20 and Fg have the same arguments time after time in their forums...and if not why is it only here?
Edit: Actually, I have a good idea why it happens here...
Well said. The reason why it's different is because physical distribution is different than digital distribution. I don't have to worry about my digital copies getting wet or torn. I also don't have to pay for materials or shipping. (This is the part I thought was obvious) The thing that doesn't change across platforms is the content.
It is true that the rules and adventures are the same. But for a person to consider that the content is the same just shows that the person did not use DDB. And as the time goes and more and more features are added that difference will only grow. In my opinion this is the core part people are missing on this thread, also on all posts about physical vs digital.
I would recommend as a start during your D&D sessions try to use the basic rules to find rules every time a doubt arises. Unfortunately right now there are no free adventures, but I am sure someday will be (maybe even the one from magic the gathering planeshift), but I assure you that preparing sessions here on DDB speed up the process a lot. Not even to mention the character creation. And this is not a free bonus for being digital, this format is far way better than a pdf, but that also have costs to develop. And those costs is what we pay.
You've missed my point. I have used DDB and I really like the toolset. I'd like to pay for the toolset & digital distribution, not the content again. Instead I have an indirect price for the tools through the repurchase of the content. Their business model is that the cool tools justify the repurchase of the content. I'm saying I'd be more willing to pay for what I don't already have (digital distribution that can be used with the cool tools I can now access) as opposed to getting most of the tools for free and have to repay for the same content ... again.
Well said. The reason why it's different is because physical distribution is different than digital distribution. I don't have to worry about my digital copies getting wet or torn. I also don't have to pay for materials or shipping. (This is the part I thought was obvious) The thing that doesn't change across platforms is the content.
It is true that the rules and adventures are the same. But for a person to consider that the content is the same just shows that the person did not use DDB. And as the time goes and more and more features are added that difference will only grow. In my opinion this is the core part people are missing on this thread, also on all posts about physical vs digital.
I would recommend as a start during your D&D sessions try to use the basic rules to find rules every time a doubt arises. Unfortunately right now there are no free adventures, but I am sure someday will be (maybe even the one from magic the gathering planeshift), but I assure you that preparing sessions here on DDB speed up the process a lot. Not even to mention the character creation. And this is not a free bonus for being digital, this format is far way better than a pdf, but that also have costs to develop. And those costs is what we pay.
You've missed my point. I have used DDB and I really like the toolset. I'd like to pay for the toolset & digital distribution, not the content again. Instead I have an indirect price for the tools through the repurchase of the content. Their business model is that the cool tools justify the repurchase of the content. I'm saying I'd be more willing to pay for what I don't already have (digital distribution that can be used with the cool tools I can now access) as opposed to getting most of the tools for free and have to repay for the same content ... again.
Oh! Well you're in luck! You can buy JUST the character creation parts piecemeal without the same content from the books, which is the compendium content.
I dont see the problem either... I was fine paying again and now thanks to sharing my group all have the content without them paying a thing. Unlike roll20 and fantaisy groung which forces you to actually play to get such features. Me and my group have literally only paid once for content... So i wonder why you are not ok with it. You are not rebuying stuff you are buying at literally half the price of the content. Also with bundles it goes down even further.
I also already showed how much it cost here in canada and how much ddb saves you in the end. So i dont understand why you guys want to pay even less when curse already did their best to save you major bucks.
Just for the record... Here in canada... Each books is upward 90$ with taxes and all... Books here are maximum 33$ with transitions and taxes. Thats literally 1/3rd the price... Seriously how low you want them to count their work?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Kreakdude, the model will reflect what the market will bear. As long as enough people are willing to pay, WotC will insist on being paid for their content in each new format, and in each new platform.
They have that right. It's their content
You are not owed anything. WotC does not owe you are free/discounted digital copy because you bought a physical copy. That is the simple crux of this. They are free to do whatever they want with the thing they created, just as you would be if you created something.
I hear a lot of entitlement thinking from the people complaining about having to buy the "content" more than once. They don't owe you anything.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
So I just read your signature and thought of something funny. It would actually be possible for Curse to know if you bought a Physical D&D Book from their parent(ish) company.
For example:
D&D Beyond is owned by Curse
Which is owned by Twitch
Which is owned by Amazon
In which I bought many of my physical books. haha
I do not expect them to actually do anything like track that or not, but it did pop into my head once I read your signature. haha
So I just read your signature and thought of something funny. It would actually be possible for Curse to know if you bought a Physical D&D Book from their parent(ish) company.
For example:
D&D Beyond is owned by Curse
Which is owned by Twitch
Which is owned by Amazon
In which I bought many of my physical books. haha
I do not expect them to actually do anything like track that or not, but it did pop into my head once I read your signature. haha
Curse might ultimately be owned by Amazon, but I imagine they are run as very separate companies. The logistics of being able to access the Amazon database are likely not as easy as you might think.
Also, not everyone buys their books from Amazon. Then there's Amazon US, Canada, etc. different databases.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Finances: Companies lose money all the time for a purpose. Why would a mobile gaming company lose tons of dollars on a Kate Upton commercial during the superbowl? Why would we be able to get a $5 footlong or Hot'n'Ready? To get us in the door and sell us other cool stuff that is profitable. I'm suggesting that purpose be User Acquisition. Like I said, I think there are a lot of D&D fans out there not willing to spend a dime because of the business models aka price points and distribution methods. Yes, enough people are spending lots of money on their current business model that they are at least staying afloat maybe more. But they are failing to reach their entire user base. They have a real piracy problem. For every dollar non-spender d&d fans withhold, you spenders have to make up for. If there was a business model that reached out to many more users then all you current spenders would get to pay much less. Look at what happened in the music industry suffering from piracy. It wasn't until distributors like Spotify came out that people were finally like, "Oh, this is worth the money/ad listening to not have to do all the work I do to pirate my music." First problem explained.
For the second problem,
Because if it isn't different, then it is equally as "well no, of course not that, that would be ridiculous."
Is not about not being "perfectly implemented" it's about treating this one specific case as being so different from all the other cases as to ignore that no one thinks it's reasonable to ask for the same thing except in this specific case, and yet not explaining why this case should be any different.
Well said. The reason why it's different is because physical distribution is different than digital distribution. I don't have to worry about my digital copies getting wet or torn. I also don't have to pay for materials or shipping. (This is the part I thought was obvious) The thing that doesn't change across platforms is the content.
And I cast Heroism on the community.
I don't follow why my statements are irrelevant, but following your emphasis ...
The words you put in my mouth are not the words I'd say. I'm actually saying I want to spend more. I want to be confident in the content & distribution I would pay for. I wouldn't say "I don't wanna pay more, I can already play the game." I would say "I can play this game, I like it, I want to pay for more cool stuff rather than pay for the same thing over and over again."
And I cast Heroism on the community.
What tools does D&D Beyond offer that aren't free?
Technically I think all of D&D Beyond Tools are free other than limitations with the number of characters you can create, which can be removed with a subscription, which you appear to be fine with.
You are saying you are okay with using the tools, but not buying the content? That is what D&D Beyond offers, however, due to license agreements most likely something curse is able to work around, you have to buy the extra content to use it with their FREE tools.
Edit: To my understanding, it sounds like you are confusing the integration of WOTC content with the Free tools D&D Beyond offers you. It sounds as though you feel that the WOTC content is apart of the tools, which isn't technically correct. The WOTC content is just that, content. D&D Beyond is a set of tools that allow you to access such content or even lots of free homebrew content (which they plan on extended to races and class archetypes).
Okay, so you are annoyed with how licensing works.
No, I get that. It's kind of annoying to have to buy the same content from multiple sources just to use the content. I do understand why D&D Beyond works the way it does.
To me, it really sounds like you and the people you play with need to have a serious discussion of how you want to play and go all in on that route. Personally, that is what my friends and I did. We choose D&D beyond in the long round, because of the content sharing feature. It was nice for me as the DM to just buy all the content once and then get the master tier and share all of the content to my friends. We were also leaning towards physical copies but ended up liking how easy it was to get spell information on the character sheet from beyond.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I personally think its the massive support from WOTC to D&D Beyond, it makes people feel like the two companies are the same.
DM for the Adventures in Erylia Podcast
Where five friends sit around the table and record themselves playing Dungeons and Dragons
I dont see the problem either... I was fine paying again and now thanks to sharing my group all have the content without them paying a thing. Unlike roll20 and fantaisy groung which forces you to actually play to get such features. Me and my group have literally only paid once for content... So i wonder why you are not ok with it. You are not rebuying stuff you are buying at literally half the price of the content. Also with bundles it goes down even further.
I also already showed how much it cost here in canada and how much ddb saves you in the end. So i dont understand why you guys want to pay even less when curse already did their best to save you major bucks.
Just for the record... Here in canada... Each books is upward 90$ with taxes and all... Books here are maximum 33$ with transitions and taxes. Thats literally 1/3rd the price... Seriously how low you want them to count their work?
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Kreakdude, the model will reflect what the market will bear. As long as enough people are willing to pay, WotC will insist on being paid for their content in each new format, and in each new platform.
They have that right. It's their content
You are not owed anything. WotC does not owe you are free/discounted digital copy because you bought a physical copy. That is the simple crux of this. They are free to do whatever they want with the thing they created, just as you would be if you created something.
I hear a lot of entitlement thinking from the people complaining about having to buy the "content" more than once. They don't owe you anything.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
So I just read your signature and thought of something funny. It would actually be possible for Curse to know if you bought a Physical D&D Book from their parent(ish) company.
For example:
I do not expect them to actually do anything like track that or not, but it did pop into my head once I read your signature. haha
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I completely agree with you.
I was just pointing out that if their parent company really did want you to be able to access your physical book digitally they probably could.
Do I actually think that will happen, NOPE.