If I had to pay for my current or future books, even at a reduced cost, I'd love to see the ability to print out the maps of the premade adventures. A printed adventure might come with a couple maps but if it's a big adventure, like Madness at Gardmore Abbey, then it would be a great benefit to be able to print off the maps for the little encounters.
I know they've stated that there will be multiple payment options. I am really hoping that there will be an option for a flat subscription fee (preferably no more than $10 but I'd be willing to pay $15 for the right stuff). And with a subscription you get access to ALL current and future content, and the app automatically updates with the most recent information any time new stuff falls. (new supplements, campaigns, and even unearthed arcana).
I really don't want like a $10 subscription but then also have to pay a bunch of micro-transactions every time new content comes out.
Why would you even pay $10 (let alone $15)?!? DDI for 4e was $5.95 a month and got you EVERYTHING (player and gm tools) and included all updates free until the service was discontinued. Plus, even if you unsubbed, your data was kept and if you resubbed you still had it. Again, for $5.95 a month. Anyone who says they want to pay more than that is setting a bad example and is getting ripped off.
Honestly the char builder was almost worthless. Had to be used on windows and because it was built in Silverlight it would bog down on everything, and when they added more books they could not get the rules to talk correctly and you would end up printing and redoing math and features.
So would I pay more for 5E DDI than 4E DDI yes... If it were built by someone who was forced to used it ;)
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
They should do another poll for how much you would be willing to pay per month.
Not sure the benefit of that poll because we have no idea what functions and features it will include.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
I'd hate it if they priced it like Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds. Their pricing is awful. It would force me to choose between buying books at a game store or using D&D Beyond. Pitting local game stores against digital content providers is a terrible way to treat stores that support D&D.
The physical code thing is very unrealistic. Look at how many gamers don't even blink at the idea of stealing PDFs. Snapping a picture of the code from the book in the store is even easier. People steal gift cards the same way.
Setting up something for stores to request codes when a purchase is made is another level of overhead for stores. If Wizards doesn't trust its customers enough to sell them PDFs then they're going to require a frustrating level of policing and verification for a system like that. It also requires a level of caring that some stores don't possess. One store jumped at the idea of using Bits and Mortar, another store signed up but didn't care enough to figure out how to get me the PDFs.
1) Roll20/FG - I agree.
2) Physical code could work if it is done the same way the Marvel Comics and DC comics used to do their digital codes when you bought a physical book.
For Marvel, the code was hidden behind a peel off sticker that you then put into your Marvel app on mobile or PC. The digital version was available for free with the purchase of the physical copy ($3.99 USD) and it was like that for a while until they cancelled that method sometime last year.
DC Comics, on the other hand, would release two versions of their comics: the standard version which was regular price ($2.99 USD) and a "Digital Comic Combo" version, which has the same cover as the standard version, but with slightly altered colours and was sealed in its own individual shrink wrap that you had to open to get to the code that was somewhere inside the book. These ones were priced at $3.99 USD. (This was around the time that New 52 was a thing.)
Something done like this for future physical products might work, but would have to be carefully monitored by the retail staff.
Source: worked in a comic book store for over 2 years.
Hey guys! As I didn't know if I should create a new topic or not, and as this megatopic involves a discussion about the aspects that may or may not make us use D&D Beyond, I would like to bring something that I consider relevant. So this amazing news has just been posted in the official D&D website:
Dungeons & Dragons has some of the best fans in the world, and because of you, 2016 was one of the biggest years ever for the brand. Enormous thanks to our players and supporters. You’re awesome!
Today, we’re announcing an exciting step in making sure other D&D fans around the world can enjoy fifth edition as well. Wizards of the Coast has partnered with Gale Force Nine to localize Dungeons & Dragons fifth edition tabletop RPG content into multiple languages. They will start with the Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, Monster Manual, and the D&D Starter Set, as well as accessories created by Gale Force Nine (such as spell cards and Dungeon Master’s screens). The first translations will be French, German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish, Polish, and Portuguese, with more to follow.
We want fans to know that we’ve heard you asking for translations for a long time, and recognize that in previous editions there have been many different translations for the core books. So why has it changed this time around?
Our approach for this edition has been different from the beginning—starting with the playtest, then moving on to our focused approach to published content, and providing the OGL for fifth edition while also supporting an online community to share created content in the DMs Guild. It’s because of our philosophical changes that our approach to translations has also been different. We decided that simply getting the books out in local languages wasn’t good enough. We also wanted to make sure that the quality, consistency, care, and community support that have made fifth edition so popular in English also exists for other languages. We have been working closely with Gale Force Nine since the launch of the edition, so we know they understand our commitment to quality and consistency.
With this partnership, Gale Force Nine will be responsible for translations of physical products and for overseeing the production and local market partnerships necessary to support the hobby. By working with language experts, printers and D&D fans in each country, we are confident in their understanding of the unique issues facing each market.
While we haven’t announced exact details for each market, the general plan is that products for these initial languages will be available sometime this summer on a staggered roll-out occurring over three months. Additional translations of other supplements or future campaign books will follow the English releases as closely as possible, but may vary by market or language. While this announcement doesn’t include all of the languages that we’ve translated into in the past, we know Gale Force Nine is dedicated to meeting market needs and supporting our fans.
Q: Why have you chosen Gale Force Nine instead of working directly in each country?
A: Partnering with just one licensee on the program ensures a more consistent roll-out across all other languages as well as a dedicated team in the U.K. working closely with translation teams and European printers.
Q: Will translated products be for sale at my friendly local game store?
A: The distribution varies by country, but for the most part your local hobby shop and book channel stores should have access to Dungeons & Dragons products at prices comparable to current U.S. and U.K. products published directly by Wizards of the Coast.
Q: How do people in each market find out more?
A: As part of this release, we will be directing people in each of the markets to our local distribution partners and their websites to find out more. This information will also be on the Gale Force Nine site.
Considering that we will soon have products in different languages (eg: French, German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish, Polish, and Portuguese), can we expect that D&D Beyond will also have its content (compendium, character builder, etc) in the other languages as well? If the answer is positive, then a lot of new questions come to my mind. For now, I just want to know if there is any information or plans of D&D Beyond working with other languages. Thx!
All great feedback. The best part? The bubbas at WoTC are reading them. (Hey guys!) With that said, I'm sure they are considering everything we are discussing here. Here's hoping they can make the majority happy.
Either way, I think it will be a good tool for those that want the online application accessible either a) support their books or b) be their only source of information. As a 100% online DM, I will be looking into this for realz.
When thinking about payment models, I think it is important to consider the various needs of the audience. One of the biggest flaws with DDI (aside form over-promising and under-delivering) was only having one, all-or-nothing, option. Players weren't interested in paying for DM content. If you go a subscription route rather than one-time fee per book, I recommend having a player level, a DM level, and a shareable group level. That said, it's important that it's worth if for a DM if you are going to charge more... DDI never had a monster builder get out of beta, and other DM tools that were teased (for encounter building, treasure, etc.) never manifested.
Honestly I love the idea of this just being a free tool for all players to use if and when they need it, but I understand that it does have a cost to create new things like this. So instead of a monthly subscription, a one time fee seems more fair to both parties.
Well, I subscribed to DDI for years, but the marketplace and games have changed vastly between editions.
In 2008, paying a few bucks to create characters in the relatively complicated system (specifically managing the numerous powers at the three tiers correctly) was worth it. It didn't hurt that my computer as DM could be used to create everyone's characters and so it wasn't an expense for each member of the game.
Times and systems have changed though.
I'll probably buy an app, if it's at a fair price. I DM enough, it's a convenience I'll pay for to not have to drag numerous books out if I DM away from home. If it's easy to use and relatively bug free. I DM groups of players from their teens to middle aged players; my older cohorts would possibly pay but I already know the under 30's I DM aren't likely to pay.
Honestly, as an unsolicited opinion, I'd suggest a tiered approach.
Free tier - You gave away basic rules for free as an incentive with the rules and four basic classes. Do the same with the app. Add some caps, like only one characters, and perhaps having to manually add magic items or export characters or something.
Player tier - make it a monthly tier for players. All the races/classes/unearthed arcana. Let this tier support exporting characters, multiple characters, and access to player related content (Ie, rules, character, plots, etc. Keep the subscription nominal - maybe $5 a month.
DM Tier - Make this tier specifically for DM's. All the core rulebook items. Allow the DM tier to associate via accounts to his player, and be able to reward equipment/abilities/spells, etc to player characters and manage campaign parameters, levels, etc.) Set this for $10 a month.
Then, I'd add some purchasable tiers. For modules I'd divide into two tiers - the full module at full MSRP for DM's who just want a virtual copy (IE, Against the Giants for 50.) and a second cheaper tier with just the campaign specific Appendices for $15 or less. This way you have the option of running fully from the app or being able to run a module from the book and use the app to assign magic items, fight module specific monsters, etc.
Let us address the history of WotC's productions for a moment. Paying for a game is one thing, paying for it again in a subscription-based system is less than appealing, but when you pay for the same content several times because it gets rehashed in multiple books, followed by a sub-service which does the exact same thing, only without the artwork and Trade-Mark specific items, is really annoying.
Think 3rd Edition, here. Book after book loaded down with more artwork than necessary, much of that irrelevant to the page material, and not nearly enough illustration of complicated or new concepts, not to mention the hideous job of editing in every last book (not to mention the non-issue-related contaminants, like web-enhancements, errata, and non-TM but "official" rules websites. Wow, what a mess). Then comes the "Tools". Everything you need to play D&D, for just the cost of one and a half books. Fooled us with "everything you NEED" read and promoted as if to say "EVERYTHING". End product: incomplete, defective, and hard to update or work with player creations. Not a good thing, overall, but something, until it was completely abandoned.
Now let's look at 4th Edition, Hmm, not seeing a difference aside from the fact that 4th Ed was not D&D RPG, but rather D&D Miniatures Rules. The trend was the same. Lot's of books covering SOME new material and way to much artwork irrelevant to the page matter. So let's make a sub service set of Tools. Super slow to develop, high-priced, and never completed to the specs advertised. Not even available offline! And when WotC got board, it was not left for use to the subscribers, it was abandoned and closed. Again, money literally down the tubes.
5th Ed is here! Wow yay whoop, wait, what? Ok, lots of cool new stuff, truly an edition upgrade from 3.x. But come on. They didn't even release the core books, the Players Handbook, the Dungeon Masters Guide and the Monster Manual, at the same time. They couldn't. who could afford $150+ to play a pen and paper game? Who would want to? But they hooked us anyway. Got us in here and tossing money again. But now the books are coming out as massive adventures. New rules are being integrated into the adventures so that even if your a do-it-yourself DM, you have to shell out for the new rules updates because they are locked into an adventure. Can't buy what you need, you have to buy it all.
Now let's add a sub service again. Mandatory for the latest and forever unpublished in print updates and upgrades that we'll need to maintain our edge. Still available only online. Still without the explanatory artwork or TM'd material. So are we to believe this service won't leave us hanging when they decide to roll out D&D 6?
Consider these things when you are considering your price, only ask yourselves, "Would I truly want to pay this cost for the 'quality' of service we are offering?" And let yourselves be aware, that this may be the last chance you get to screw this up or make it truly great.
I would like an option to have greatly discounted packages if we've already purchased the books or pdfs. Paying for the same material several times over seems a bit unnecessary from a consumer stand point, but if WotC is going into the red for these features in this app, a subscription (low monthly, $1-5) for a full unlock might be low enough to get even those who've pirated the pdfs to contribute.
D&D Beyond is pretty late to the party, so efforts to win our business should be obvious.
Now let's add a sub service again. Mandatory for the latest and forever unpublished in print updates and upgrades that we'll need to maintain our edge. Still available only online. Still without the explanatory artwork or TM'd material. So are we to believe this service won't leave us hanging when they decide to roll out D&D 6?
Consider these things when you are considering your price, only ask yourselves, "Would I truly want to pay this cost for the 'quality' of service we are offering?" And let yourselves be aware, that this may be the last chance you get to screw this up or make it truly great.
I get that...they burned us before. But I don't think they are on that path anymore. 5e is different. It actually got me to trust this company again with me and my friends gaming future. Yes, having a subpar product would be infuriating. So much so, that I may leave for Pathfinder or New Scion again. But if what is out right now is any indication of what is to come? Then I am all for it. Curse is behind this, a respected developer. And Hasbro has pushed for Wizards to make this game more appealing. And they have. 100%. I share your concerns, but not as bleak as yours. Forgive, do not forget. Trust me, I traded in all my 3.5 books for 4th. I hated Wizards. Especially when all the 3.5 books started rocketing in price. Whew... Give this a chance. If anything, we got awesome forums right now.
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"...Debts must always be paid, sometimes in more than blood and gold. But this is Ordo Ursa," Ren places his hand on Erakas's chest, right where the Dragonborn's heart is. "Right here. And it always has been and always will be. Don't ever forget that. Because I won't."
Serandis Mendaen (Aereni Elven Rogue/maybe one day Wizard)- Project Point Playtest
One thing that I'd love to see is a way to gift, contribute subs or have a "family/party" sub plan.
Lot of the groups I either DM or play in, especially online, talk a lot about how DMs typically get saddled with a lot of the upfront costs (added books, maps, figures) along with online tools (Roll20, TTS, Obsidian Portal, etc).
It'd be a great to see some options to allow this to be more spread out amongst the party either through payment options or plans that could "share" content among.
I'd be up for paying once as long as support is good. If a mo they sub means more support, that works for me too. My main concern is quality over time and updating the tools with supplemental material.
It appears that SCAG spells aren't in here yet, unless I am mistaken. Quite a few people in my group use those on a regular basis.
This is exactly where I'm at. If there's an online code system awesome. But if I have to buy these books again I'll be gone.
Also there needs to be a way to register the stuff you bought before beyond existed.
My least favorite thing about wizards is this money hungry vibe I get sometimes. They're going to have to pull out all the stops to get a monthly transaction out of me.
This question is hard to answer, because it depends on what the full features are, and whether the content I can get in a subscription is content I already have or things I don't have.
The features listed in the 3 phases are simply not enough to spend money on. They automate some of the processes in the game, but not as many as other free solutions do. No encounter builder? Or is that under the umbrella of "Campaign Management"? I have serious questions about the depth of this feature set. How does this help me play D&D beyond what Orcpub or any of the dozens of other generators, builders, and other services do? Does it interface with the DM's Guild? Adventurer's League? Those would be features that an official product can bring to the table that others can't. I understand why a full VTT might be too ambitious, especially when there are already established players in that market (that already have licenses for official material, to boot), but you've gotta give me something to justify opening the wallet. Can the character sheet automatically make relevant rolls for attacks or spells (or at least display precisely what to roll and the effects when clicked/tapped)? Is that function exportable? So, the answer, of course, depends on the feature set, but the feature set as planned doesn't sound worth spending money on over the free alternatives, unless there are some truly useful bells and whistles under the umbrella of "Character Sheet" and "Campaign Management." For many people, that will be where you either earn or do not earn their dollars.
The second question is just what content are we talking about? The release schedule for this edition has been glacial compared to previous editions, so owning a print copy of literally everything in the edition so far is not difficult at all. Those customers are both 1) the kind most likely to be using this service and 2) the most likely to balk at being asked to pay the same amount of money for the same content on a new platform. If those customers can't be turned into early adopters, DDB will have a hard time picking up much of a user base going forward. Of course, the value added by the platform itself is not nothing, but also probably not as significant as the cost of the entire edition over again. Meanwhile, new players who don't own anything will not be so put off by a higher price of admission: they just have to choose if buying it on this platform is more valuable than buying it in print (if the print edition is the next best option, the opportunity cost hovers around zero). I know efforts to verify other purchases is impractical and likely to be abused, but there is real value as far as building customer relations in undertaking such an effort, and after several stops and starts in the digital tool experience, some more jarring than others, this fan base could use some real effort to go above and beyond customer expectations. If nothing else, it would likely pay dividends by ensuring early and widespread adoption.
So the context of the question brings in its greatest difficulties: 1) what other services is DDB competing with? and 2) what content does the target customer already have in a different format? How you answer those questions will greatly impact the answer to what the pricing/business model should look like. And WotC are the only ones capable of doing the research to actually find those answers; no one customer can tell you what the world of customers looks like and relying on a minority of customers like you will get here may give a skewed answer.
Assuming that the feature-set does go beyond what is available already to at least some degree, a pricing model that follows Microsoft Office's three tiers might work well:
1) The entry-level freebies (see Office Online): Access to SRD/Basic Rules + 2 character slots, with basic Adventurer's League support
2) The a la carte model (see Office 2016): Permanently unlock a block of content, either a whole book or just specific pieces (e.g. "Fighter options," "Monsters," or "Character options") with a one-time payment. Buying access to the book can be as expensive as the print book itself (though I must reiterate how sorely the base needs an olive branch in the form of some attempt to verify purchases and give them some credit there; future purchases should include this somehow). Also can buy additional character slots.
3) The subscription model (see Office 365): For a low monthly subscription, get access to all content and unlimited (or near unlimited) character slots. Can be divided into two tiers: Player ($4.99/mo) which gives character slots and all character content from all released material, plus extra Adventurer's League support, etc., and Dungeon Master ($9.99/mo) which gives access to all content, period. With bonuses for subscribing a year at a time ($49.99 for Player, $99.99 for DM). Another function of the DM subscription should be to "sponsor" a certain number (up to, say, 6 or 7?) of Free/Player accounts with access to a special character sheet that is upgraded to Player subscription options (i.e. all character options in the game) while they are in their game. If a group wants to just go in together for a DM subscription, that should be do-able (but on the one character sheet per sponsored other account only). That also gives them a taste of what the Player subscription feels like, which might lead them to subscribe. When you end your subscription, you lose access to anything you have not paid for a la carte (though you should be given the option to "buy out" your character sheets and such when your subscription ends so you don't have to lose those chars).
Microsoft makes all of that work at the same time: there are some users for whom the a la carte model is sufficient, even though most are probably better off with the subscription model. In this industry, I think having an a la carte option and a subscription option would be worthwhile whenever possible (RPG players are fickle). Having Basic (no subscription), Player (Player subscription), and Dungeon Master (DM subscription) account levels would cover the widest spectrum of player habits. If that pricing model can cover the costs, I think such a multi-faceted approach would get the widest support and adoption from diverse D&D players who, as this thread is evidence of, demand to be catered to.
If I had to pay for my current or future books, even at a reduced cost, I'd love to see the ability to print out the maps of the premade adventures. A printed adventure might come with a couple maps but if it's a big adventure, like Madness at Gardmore Abbey, then it would be a great benefit to be able to print off the maps for the little encounters.
Yay! Roll for damage!
They should do another poll for how much you would be willing to pay per month.
Yay! Roll for damage!
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
Amateur Entertainer, Professional Fanboy. Find me on Twitch and YouTube.
Dungeon Master. Currently running Divine Contention, Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, Ghosts of Saltmarsh, and Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden.
Player. Currently playing as Aidan Xistsrith, half-elf wild mage | Finnegan "Finn" Chance, human trickster cleric
Formerly. Onitot, half-elf monk (3.5e) | James Morgan, human battle master | Faelon, half-elf hunter | Gorstag, half-orc moon druid
Hey guys!
As I didn't know if I should create a new topic or not, and as this megatopic involves a discussion about the aspects that may or may not make us use D&D Beyond, I would like to bring something that I consider relevant. So this amazing news has just been posted in the official D&D website:
Announcing Localized D&D Fifth Edition Products
Dungeons & Dragons has some of the best fans in the world, and because of you, 2016 was one of the biggest years ever for the brand. Enormous thanks to our players and supporters. You’re awesome!
Today, we’re announcing an exciting step in making sure other D&D fans around the world can enjoy fifth edition as well. Wizards of the Coast has partnered with Gale Force Nine to localize Dungeons & Dragons fifth edition tabletop RPG content into multiple languages. They will start with the Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, Monster Manual, and the D&D Starter Set, as well as accessories created by Gale Force Nine (such as spell cards and Dungeon Master’s screens). The first translations will be French, German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish, Polish, and Portuguese, with more to follow.
We want fans to know that we’ve heard you asking for translations for a long time, and recognize that in previous editions there have been many different translations for the core books. So why has it changed this time around?
Our approach for this edition has been different from the beginning—starting with the playtest, then moving on to our focused approach to published content, and providing the OGL for fifth edition while also supporting an online community to share created content in the DMs Guild. It’s because of our philosophical changes that our approach to translations has also been different. We decided that simply getting the books out in local languages wasn’t good enough. We also wanted to make sure that the quality, consistency, care, and community support that have made fifth edition so popular in English also exists for other languages. We have been working closely with Gale Force Nine since the launch of the edition, so we know they understand our commitment to quality and consistency.
With this partnership, Gale Force Nine will be responsible for translations of physical products and for overseeing the production and local market partnerships necessary to support the hobby. By working with language experts, printers and D&D fans in each country, we are confident in their understanding of the unique issues facing each market.
While we haven’t announced exact details for each market, the general plan is that products for these initial languages will be available sometime this summer on a staggered roll-out occurring over three months. Additional translations of other supplements or future campaign books will follow the English releases as closely as possible, but may vary by market or language. While this announcement doesn’t include all of the languages that we’ve translated into in the past, we know Gale Force Nine is dedicated to meeting market needs and supporting our fans.
Q: Why have you chosen Gale Force Nine instead of working directly in each country?
A: Partnering with just one licensee on the program ensures a more consistent roll-out across all other languages as well as a dedicated team in the U.K. working closely with translation teams and European printers.
Q: Will translated products be for sale at my friendly local game store?
A: The distribution varies by country, but for the most part your local hobby shop and book channel stores should have access to Dungeons & Dragons products at prices comparable to current U.S. and U.K. products published directly by Wizards of the Coast.
Q: How do people in each market find out more?
A: As part of this release, we will be directing people in each of the markets to our local distribution partners and their websites to find out more. This information will also be on the Gale Force Nine site.
Considering that we will soon have products in different languages (eg: French, German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish, Polish, and Portuguese), can we expect that D&D Beyond will also have its content (compendium, character builder, etc) in the other languages as well? If the answer is positive, then a lot of new questions come to my mind.
For now, I just want to know if there is any information or plans of D&D Beyond working with other languages.
Thx!
All great feedback. The best part? The bubbas at WoTC are reading them. (Hey guys!) With that said, I'm sure they are considering everything we are discussing here. Here's hoping they can make the majority happy.
Either way, I think it will be a good tool for those that want the online application accessible either a) support their books or b) be their only source of information. As a 100% online DM, I will be looking into this for realz.
See you in game!
-Eranthius
Not willing to pay.
When thinking about payment models, I think it is important to consider the various needs of the audience. One of the biggest flaws with DDI (aside form over-promising and under-delivering) was only having one, all-or-nothing, option. Players weren't interested in paying for DM content. If you go a subscription route rather than one-time fee per book, I recommend having a player level, a DM level, and a shareable group level. That said, it's important that it's worth if for a DM if you are going to charge more... DDI never had a monster builder get out of beta, and other DM tools that were teased (for encounter building, treasure, etc.) never manifested.
i have read the most of the comments and here is my recommendation
With every Roll came a new Adventure
Honestly I love the idea of this just being a free tool for all players to use if and when they need it, but I understand that it does have a cost to create new things like this. So instead of a monthly subscription, a one time fee seems more fair to both parties.
Well, I subscribed to DDI for years, but the marketplace and games have changed vastly between editions.
In 2008, paying a few bucks to create characters in the relatively complicated system (specifically managing the numerous powers at the three tiers correctly) was worth it. It didn't hurt that my computer as DM could be used to create everyone's characters and so it wasn't an expense for each member of the game.
Times and systems have changed though.
I'll probably buy an app, if it's at a fair price. I DM enough, it's a convenience I'll pay for to not have to drag numerous books out if I DM away from home. If it's easy to use and relatively bug free. I DM groups of players from their teens to middle aged players; my older cohorts would possibly pay but I already know the under 30's I DM aren't likely to pay.
Honestly, as an unsolicited opinion, I'd suggest a tiered approach.
Free tier - You gave away basic rules for free as an incentive with the rules and four basic classes. Do the same with the app. Add some caps, like only one characters, and perhaps having to manually add magic items or export characters or something.
Player tier - make it a monthly tier for players. All the races/classes/unearthed arcana. Let this tier support exporting characters, multiple characters, and access to player related content (Ie, rules, character, plots, etc. Keep the subscription nominal - maybe $5 a month.
DM Tier - Make this tier specifically for DM's. All the core rulebook items. Allow the DM tier to associate via accounts to his player, and be able to reward equipment/abilities/spells, etc to player characters and manage campaign parameters, levels, etc.) Set this for $10 a month.
Then, I'd add some purchasable tiers. For modules I'd divide into two tiers - the full module at full MSRP for DM's who just want a virtual copy (IE, Against the Giants for 50.) and a second cheaper tier with just the campaign specific Appendices for $15 or less. This way you have the option of running fully from the app or being able to run a module from the book and use the app to assign magic items, fight module specific monsters, etc.
Just my $0.02.
Let us address the history of WotC's productions for a moment. Paying for a game is one thing, paying for it again in a subscription-based system is less than appealing, but when you pay for the same content several times because it gets rehashed in multiple books, followed by a sub-service which does the exact same thing, only without the artwork and Trade-Mark specific items, is really annoying.
Think 3rd Edition, here. Book after book loaded down with more artwork than necessary, much of that irrelevant to the page material, and not nearly enough illustration of complicated or new concepts, not to mention the hideous job of editing in every last book (not to mention the non-issue-related contaminants, like web-enhancements, errata, and non-TM but "official" rules websites. Wow, what a mess). Then comes the "Tools". Everything you need to play D&D, for just the cost of one and a half books. Fooled us with "everything you NEED" read and promoted as if to say "EVERYTHING". End product: incomplete, defective, and hard to update or work with player creations. Not a good thing, overall, but something, until it was completely abandoned.
Now let's look at 4th Edition, Hmm, not seeing a difference aside from the fact that 4th Ed was not D&D RPG, but rather D&D Miniatures Rules. The trend was the same. Lot's of books covering SOME new material and way to much artwork irrelevant to the page matter. So let's make a sub service set of Tools. Super slow to develop, high-priced, and never completed to the specs advertised. Not even available offline! And when WotC got board, it was not left for use to the subscribers, it was abandoned and closed. Again, money literally down the tubes.
5th Ed is here! Wow yay whoop, wait, what? Ok, lots of cool new stuff, truly an edition upgrade from 3.x. But come on. They didn't even release the core books, the Players Handbook, the Dungeon Masters Guide and the Monster Manual, at the same time. They couldn't. who could afford $150+ to play a pen and paper game? Who would want to? But they hooked us anyway. Got us in here and tossing money again. But now the books are coming out as massive adventures. New rules are being integrated into the adventures so that even if your a do-it-yourself DM, you have to shell out for the new rules updates because they are locked into an adventure. Can't buy what you need, you have to buy it all.
Now let's add a sub service again. Mandatory for the latest and forever unpublished in print updates and upgrades that we'll need to maintain our edge. Still available only online. Still without the explanatory artwork or TM'd material. So are we to believe this service won't leave us hanging when they decide to roll out D&D 6?
Consider these things when you are considering your price, only ask yourselves, "Would I truly want to pay this cost for the 'quality' of service we are offering?" And let yourselves be aware, that this may be the last chance you get to screw this up or make it truly great.
I would like an option to have greatly discounted packages if we've already purchased the books or pdfs. Paying for the same material several times over seems a bit unnecessary from a consumer stand point, but if WotC is going into the red for these features in this app, a subscription (low monthly, $1-5) for a full unlock might be low enough to get even those who've pirated the pdfs to contribute.
D&D Beyond is pretty late to the party, so efforts to win our business should be obvious.
I get that...they burned us before. But I don't think they are on that path anymore. 5e is different. It actually got me to trust this company again with me and my friends gaming future. Yes, having a subpar product would be infuriating. So much so, that I may leave for Pathfinder or New Scion again. But if what is out right now is any indication of what is to come? Then I am all for it. Curse is behind this, a respected developer. And Hasbro has pushed for Wizards to make this game more appealing. And they have. 100%. I share your concerns, but not as bleak as yours. Forgive, do not forget. Trust me, I traded in all my 3.5 books for 4th. I hated Wizards. Especially when all the 3.5 books started rocketing in price. Whew... Give this a chance. If anything, we got awesome forums right now.
"...Debts must always be paid, sometimes in more than blood and gold. But this is Ordo Ursa," Ren places his hand on Erakas's chest, right where the Dragonborn's heart is. "Right here. And it always has been and always will be. Don't ever forget that. Because I won't."
Serandis Mendaen (Aereni Elven Rogue/maybe one day Wizard)- Project Point Playtest
One thing that I'd love to see is a way to gift, contribute subs or have a "family/party" sub plan.
Lot of the groups I either DM or play in, especially online, talk a lot about how DMs typically get saddled with a lot of the upfront costs (added books, maps, figures) along with online tools (Roll20, TTS, Obsidian Portal, etc).
It'd be a great to see some options to allow this to be more spread out amongst the party either through payment options or plans that could "share" content among.
I'd be up for paying once as long as support is good. If a mo they sub means more support, that works for me too. My main concern is quality over time and updating the tools with supplemental material.
It appears that SCAG spells aren't in here yet, unless I am mistaken. Quite a few people in my group use those on a regular basis.
This is exactly where I'm at. If there's an online code system awesome. But if I have to buy these books again I'll be gone.
Also there needs to be a way to register the stuff you bought before beyond existed.
My least favorite thing about wizards is this money hungry vibe I get sometimes. They're going to have to pull out all the stops to get a monthly transaction out of me.
This question is hard to answer, because it depends on what the full features are, and whether the content I can get in a subscription is content I already have or things I don't have.
The features listed in the 3 phases are simply not enough to spend money on. They automate some of the processes in the game, but not as many as other free solutions do. No encounter builder? Or is that under the umbrella of "Campaign Management"? I have serious questions about the depth of this feature set. How does this help me play D&D beyond what Orcpub or any of the dozens of other generators, builders, and other services do? Does it interface with the DM's Guild? Adventurer's League? Those would be features that an official product can bring to the table that others can't. I understand why a full VTT might be too ambitious, especially when there are already established players in that market (that already have licenses for official material, to boot), but you've gotta give me something to justify opening the wallet. Can the character sheet automatically make relevant rolls for attacks or spells (or at least display precisely what to roll and the effects when clicked/tapped)? Is that function exportable? So, the answer, of course, depends on the feature set, but the feature set as planned doesn't sound worth spending money on over the free alternatives, unless there are some truly useful bells and whistles under the umbrella of "Character Sheet" and "Campaign Management." For many people, that will be where you either earn or do not earn their dollars.
The second question is just what content are we talking about? The release schedule for this edition has been glacial compared to previous editions, so owning a print copy of literally everything in the edition so far is not difficult at all. Those customers are both 1) the kind most likely to be using this service and 2) the most likely to balk at being asked to pay the same amount of money for the same content on a new platform. If those customers can't be turned into early adopters, DDB will have a hard time picking up much of a user base going forward. Of course, the value added by the platform itself is not nothing, but also probably not as significant as the cost of the entire edition over again. Meanwhile, new players who don't own anything will not be so put off by a higher price of admission: they just have to choose if buying it on this platform is more valuable than buying it in print (if the print edition is the next best option, the opportunity cost hovers around zero). I know efforts to verify other purchases is impractical and likely to be abused, but there is real value as far as building customer relations in undertaking such an effort, and after several stops and starts in the digital tool experience, some more jarring than others, this fan base could use some real effort to go above and beyond customer expectations. If nothing else, it would likely pay dividends by ensuring early and widespread adoption.
So the context of the question brings in its greatest difficulties: 1) what other services is DDB competing with? and 2) what content does the target customer already have in a different format? How you answer those questions will greatly impact the answer to what the pricing/business model should look like. And WotC are the only ones capable of doing the research to actually find those answers; no one customer can tell you what the world of customers looks like and relying on a minority of customers like you will get here may give a skewed answer.
Assuming that the feature-set does go beyond what is available already to at least some degree, a pricing model that follows Microsoft Office's three tiers might work well:
1) The entry-level freebies (see Office Online): Access to SRD/Basic Rules + 2 character slots, with basic Adventurer's League support
2) The a la carte model (see Office 2016): Permanently unlock a block of content, either a whole book or just specific pieces (e.g. "Fighter options," "Monsters," or "Character options") with a one-time payment. Buying access to the book can be as expensive as the print book itself (though I must reiterate how sorely the base needs an olive branch in the form of some attempt to verify purchases and give them some credit there; future purchases should include this somehow). Also can buy additional character slots.
3) The subscription model (see Office 365): For a low monthly subscription, get access to all content and unlimited (or near unlimited) character slots. Can be divided into two tiers: Player ($4.99/mo) which gives character slots and all character content from all released material, plus extra Adventurer's League support, etc., and Dungeon Master ($9.99/mo) which gives access to all content, period. With bonuses for subscribing a year at a time ($49.99 for Player, $99.99 for DM). Another function of the DM subscription should be to "sponsor" a certain number (up to, say, 6 or 7?) of Free/Player accounts with access to a special character sheet that is upgraded to Player subscription options (i.e. all character options in the game) while they are in their game. If a group wants to just go in together for a DM subscription, that should be do-able (but on the one character sheet per sponsored other account only). That also gives them a taste of what the Player subscription feels like, which might lead them to subscribe. When you end your subscription, you lose access to anything you have not paid for a la carte (though you should be given the option to "buy out" your character sheets and such when your subscription ends so you don't have to lose those chars).
Microsoft makes all of that work at the same time: there are some users for whom the a la carte model is sufficient, even though most are probably better off with the subscription model. In this industry, I think having an a la carte option and a subscription option would be worthwhile whenever possible (RPG players are fickle). Having Basic (no subscription), Player (Player subscription), and Dungeon Master (DM subscription) account levels would cover the widest spectrum of player habits. If that pricing model can cover the costs, I think such a multi-faceted approach would get the widest support and adoption from diverse D&D players who, as this thread is evidence of, demand to be catered to.