One of my PCs is playing a ranger who has acquired the Shillelagh cantrip through their background. All well and good; this ranger build is a bit more melee than ranged.
But here's the challenge we have - they want to wield a shield in the one hand, wield (or draw) the club in the other, and cast shillelagh. The issue we're having is how to understand the somatic requirements, since it seems to me that they need a free hand to cast shillelagh on their club - which she also has to be holding.
So, it would mean no shield for at least one round so she has a free hand to cast shillelagh? Absent the War Caster feat.
As DM you have final say.but i believe RAW is not possible in this case for the PC to be able to cast Shillelagh it must have a Club or Quarterstaff in one hand and Mistletoe or Component Pouch in the other. Here's why;
The physical requirements the spellcaster must meet to cast Shillelagh are spell component Verbal, Somatic and Material (Mistletoe) If the spellcaster can’t provide one or more of a spell’s components, the spellcaster can’t cast the spell.
A Somatic component is a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. A spellcaster must use at least one of their hands to perform these movements.
Mistletoe is used in the spell’s casting. The spellcaster must have a hand free to access it, but it can be the same hand used to perform Somatic components. Since the spell doesn’t consume its materials and doesn’t specify a cost for them, a spellcaster can use a Component Pouch instead of providing the materials specified in the spell, or the spellcaster can substitute a Spellcasting Focus if the caster has a feature that allows that substitution. To use a Component Pouch, you must have a hand free to reach into it.
A Club or Quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature’s power upon casting the spell.
While as a Ranger you can use a Druidic Focus as a Spellcasting Focus for your Ranger spells, Shillelagh is not a Ranger spell for you but Magic Initiate Feat spell, which has no Spellcasting Focus feature of it's own, so it must have a free hand to handle Mistletoe or Component Pouch and Club or Quarterstaff to be imbued.
At the end of the day I'd say this falls under DM discretion, if you want to allow them to do this then they can. I know at the tables I both run and play at we tend to play fast and loose with spell requirements unless it'll have a story impact because that sort of book keeping takes away from the fun and flow of the game. If someone is in the area of a silence spell or tied up then we worry about somantic and verbal components but otherwise it's just handwaved away and assumed the player can do it
That's why i first said it's his DM decisions at the end before giving my take with rules as written. Having said that, i would also allow it at my table as it's much more organic and fun than requiring the Ranger to spend his action to don the shield.
I appreciate the input here. I think my main mental block is that, basically, the Ranger is getting one of the perks of War Caster (ignore somatic components) to cast the spell on the weapon they are holding (the club) while holding onto the shield too. We're not married to the RAW but you know, games have rules so we're trying to keep within action economies and all that. We're pretty loose on material components, but somatic and vocal components aren't things I want to ignore.
It seems like the scenarios I read the most about do deal with a druid doing this. My ranger has taken Druidic Warrior as a background Fighting Style, not the magic initiate feat, so not sure if that matters when it comes to the issue of druidic focus/somatic components.
Basically, then, the situation would be this ranger has a shield in one hand, draws the club (free) in the other hand, somehow casts Shillelagh using that same hand (BA), and can attack with the empowered club. Most of the internet seems to say this is pretty okay and I don't have a strong enough misgiving to say it isn't okay, but am I off base in feeling like this is a workaround to not having War Caster? Or is this how Shillelagh is supposed to work in practice?
It seems like the scenarios I read the most about do deal with a druid doing this. My ranger has taken Druidic Warrior as a background Fighting Style, not the magic initiate feat, so not sure if that matters when it comes to the issue of druidic focus/somatic components.
Oh yeah that changes everything, the spell wasn't acquired via Background, but from the Fighting Style Ranger feature and when another Ranger feature gives you spells they count as Ranger spells for you and Druidic Warrior also specifically say the chosen cantrips count as Ranger spells for you.
So it could therefore cast Shillelagh iwith a shield in one hand and a Quarterstaff in the other, but not a Club because it's not a spellcasting focus for Rangers.
Another thing to consider is wether a Wooden staff is a Quarterstaff or just used as one it was debated recently i can't find the thread at the moment but TarodNet may be able to.
So it could therefore cast Shillelagh iwith a shield in one hand and a Quarterstaff in the other, but not a Club because it's not a spellcasting focus for Rangers.
Huh. They seem to have changed how the cantrip works, the club is no longer a material component for the spell. That changes my answer, so in 2024 it does look like it's a problem to cast shillelagh while wearing a shield unless you have the ability to use a focus for casting the spell and your focus is a staff.
Thanks all. I think where I'm going to fall on this is to gameify it - the Ranger can undertake a task to make the club a druidic focus OR can swap it over to a Quarterstaff. Crafting is a big part of our game so I'm hopeful this lands well with my player as a compromise.
Another thing to consider is wether a Wooden staff is a Quarterstaff or just used as one it was debated recently i can't find the thread at the moment but TarodNet may be able to.
Another thing to consider is wether a Wooden staff is a Quarterstaff or just used as one it was debated recently i can't find the thread at the moment but TarodNet may be able to.
Another thing to consider is wether a Wooden staff is a Quarterstaff or just used as one it was debated recently i can't find the thread at the moment but TarodNet may be able to.
Thinking about this comment from Pantagruel666, apart from the differences between the 2014 and 2024 Shillelagh spell (e.g. Material components, Cantrip Upgrade, Force damage, etc.), I'd like to leave something here for future visitors. Let me know if I say something wrong.
Using the 2014 PHB, the Ranger doesn't have a Spellcasting Focus. They use a Component Pouch.
When TCoE was released, it introduced the option to use a Druidic Focus as a Spellcasting Focus for the Ranger at level 2: "You can use a druidic focus as a spellcasting focus for your ranger spells. A druidic focus might be a sprig of mistletoe or holly, a wand or rod made of yew or another special wood, a staff drawn whole from a living tree, or an object incorporating feathers, fur, bones, and teeth from sacred animals."
Using the 2024 PHB, the ranger is now cooler and can use a Druidic Focus as a Spellcasting Focus for their Ranger spells at level 1: "A Druidic Focus takes one of the forms in the Druidic Focuses table and is carved, tied with ribbon, or painted to channel primal magic. A Druid or Ranger can use such an object as a Spellcasting Focus."
Shillelagh is not a ranger spell, you need the magic initiate feat to acquire it, and spells gained via magic initiate cannot be cast with a focus (the feat does not give the ability to use a focus, nor does it cause the spells to be class spells for you).
Shillelagh is not a ranger spell, you need the magic initiate feat to acquire it, and spells gained via magic initiate cannot be cast with a focus (the feat does not give the ability to use a focus, nor does it cause the spells to be class spells for you).
I would point out that if you have a level in druid I personally think you should be able to use a focus for Shillelagh gained from the magic initiate fear. But otherwise you would be correct.
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One of my PCs is playing a ranger who has acquired the Shillelagh cantrip through their background. All well and good; this ranger build is a bit more melee than ranged.
But here's the challenge we have - they want to wield a shield in the one hand, wield (or draw) the club in the other, and cast shillelagh. The issue we're having is how to understand the somatic requirements, since it seems to me that they need a free hand to cast shillelagh on their club - which she also has to be holding.
So, it would mean no shield for at least one round so she has a free hand to cast shillelagh? Absent the War Caster feat.
When a spell has both S and M components, the S and M components may be done with the same hand.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/free-rules/spells#MaterialM
Just to add that the Druidic Focus should be a Quarterstaff, instead of a Club.
EDIT: Sorry, I was thinking of a Druid when I replied, not a Ranger. See below.
Which is a better weapon, at least in terms of damage :D
So... as a DM, I think it's also ok to allow also a Club as a Druidic Focus.
Mistletoe is used in the spell’s casting. The spellcaster must have a hand free to access it, but it can be the same hand used to perform Somatic components. Since the spell doesn’t consume its materials and doesn’t specify a cost for them, a spellcaster can use a Component Pouch instead of providing the materials specified in the spell, or the spellcaster can substitute a Spellcasting Focus if the caster has a feature that allows that substitution. To use a Component Pouch, you must have a hand free to reach into it.
A Club or Quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature’s power upon casting the spell.
While as a Ranger you can use a Druidic Focus as a Spellcasting Focus for your Ranger spells, Shillelagh is not a Ranger spell for you but Magic Initiate Feat spell, which has no Spellcasting Focus feature of it's own, so it must have a free hand to handle Mistletoe or Component Pouch and Club or Quarterstaff to be imbued.
Oops, @Plaguescarred I was thinking the whole time of a Druid casting the spell, not a Ranger like the OP was saying... :(
I agree with your reasoning!
EDIT: I've just updated my previous reply.
At the end of the day I'd say this falls under DM discretion, if you want to allow them to do this then they can. I know at the tables I both run and play at we tend to play fast and loose with spell requirements unless it'll have a story impact because that sort of book keeping takes away from the fun and flow of the game. If someone is in the area of a silence spell or tied up then we worry about somantic and verbal components but otherwise it's just handwaved away and assumed the player can do it
That's why i first said it's his DM decisions at the end before giving my take with rules as written. Having said that, i would also allow it at my table as it's much more organic and fun than requiring the Ranger to spend his action to don the shield.
I appreciate the input here. I think my main mental block is that, basically, the Ranger is getting one of the perks of War Caster (ignore somatic components) to cast the spell on the weapon they are holding (the club) while holding onto the shield too. We're not married to the RAW but you know, games have rules so we're trying to keep within action economies and all that. We're pretty loose on material components, but somatic and vocal components aren't things I want to ignore.
It seems like the scenarios I read the most about do deal with a druid doing this. My ranger has taken Druidic Warrior as a background Fighting Style, not the magic initiate feat, so not sure if that matters when it comes to the issue of druidic focus/somatic components.
Basically, then, the situation would be this ranger has a shield in one hand, draws the club (free) in the other hand, somehow casts Shillelagh using that same hand (BA), and can attack with the empowered club. Most of the internet seems to say this is pretty okay and I don't have a strong enough misgiving to say it isn't okay, but am I off base in feeling like this is a workaround to not having War Caster? Or is this how Shillelagh is supposed to work in practice?
Oh yeah that changes everything, the spell wasn't acquired via Background, but from the Fighting Style Ranger feature and when another Ranger feature gives you spells they count as Ranger spells for you and Druidic Warrior also specifically say the chosen cantrips count as Ranger spells for you.
So it could therefore cast Shillelagh iwith a shield in one hand and a Quarterstaff in the other, but not a Club because it's not a spellcasting focus for Rangers.
Another thing to consider is wether a Wooden staff is a Quarterstaff or just used as one it was debated recently i can't find the thread at the moment but TarodNet may be able to.
Huh. They seem to have changed how the cantrip works, the club is no longer a material component for the spell. That changes my answer, so in 2024 it does look like it's a problem to cast shillelagh while wearing a shield unless you have the ability to use a focus for casting the spell and your focus is a staff.
Yeah allowing it doesn't break anything. The spell cause either weapon’s damage die becomes a d8 so it's more a matter of Weapon Mastery choice to me,
Club Light, Slow
Quarterstaff Topple, Versatile (1d8)
Thanks all. I think where I'm going to fall on this is to gameify it - the Ranger can undertake a task to make the club a druidic focus OR can swap it over to a Quarterstaff. Crafting is a big part of our game so I'm hopeful this lands well with my player as a compromise.
Mmm... I think it's this one: Staff - Arcane Focus
This thread was resurrected from 2018, but the last 3-4 pages dive into that debate.
Thank toy TarodNet !i believe it's this one i vaguely remember discussion of cost etc but somehow thought it was a recent thread
You're always welcome! And yeah, it's pretty recent. The last post was from November.
Thinking about this comment from Pantagruel666, apart from the differences between the 2014 and 2024 Shillelagh spell (e.g. Material components, Cantrip Upgrade, Force damage, etc.), I'd like to leave something here for future visitors. Let me know if I say something wrong.
Shillelagh is not a ranger spell, you need the magic initiate feat to acquire it, and spells gained via magic initiate cannot be cast with a focus (the feat does not give the ability to use a focus, nor does it cause the spells to be class spells for you).
I would point out that if you have a level in druid I personally think you should be able to use a focus for Shillelagh gained from the magic initiate fear. But otherwise you would be correct.