I am struggling with the timeline for "the incident" and other events, and how that relates to the characters ages. My reasoning is as follows...
"The incident" is when Zybilna is frozen in stasis and the hags take over her domain, giving them leverage over the carnival and thereby allowing them to take something from people without tickets.
The hook goes:
Each character in the adventuring party visited the Witchlight Carnival when they were a child—in fact, they snuck in without buying a ticket—and had something stolen from them. Fate brings the characters together as adults, united by the common goal of retrieving that which they’ve lost.
And continues with:
The adventure begins shortly after the Witchlight Carnival returns to the characters’ world for the first time in eight years.
Ok, so they were children when they lost something, are now adults, and the carnival comes by every 8 years.
But then in the carnival they meet Kettlestream the kenku. Two of the pieces of information about her is:
Many years ago, she made a fey pact with Zybilna, the archfey who rules the Feywild domain of Prismeer. Recently, Kettlesteam has become convinced something is amiss with her patron. As a warlock, she senses that Zybilna is no longer in touch with her—a very disconcerting thought!
During her last visit, Kettlesteam overheard Witch and Light talking in their wagon.
According to Volo:
Kenku have shorter lifespans than humans. They reach maturity at about 12 years old and can live to 60.
While Mordenkainen states
"The typical life span of a player character in the D&D multiverse is about a century." and "If typical members of a race can live longer than a century, that fact is mentioned in the race’s description." (which it is not for the Kenku)
So, Kettlestream has had her patron for "many years" and has "Recently" been convinced something is wrong with her patron, but apparently she was suspicious during her "last visit", presumably 8 years ago. She has a life expectancy of 60-100 years.
With Kettlestream not being described as old, having made her warlock pact "many years ago" and "recently" noticed something wrong, the timeframe of when "the incident" happened would be more than 8 years ago, but probably not more than 17 years.
Personally, I would not refer to something more than 10 years ago as "recent", but let's say that for an older person, this could perhaps stretch to 15 years.
If "the incident" happened 24-25 years ago, then it should have taken Kettlestream almost eight years to realize a change had happened, she would then have just missed the carnival 16 years ago, and only started bothering the carnival 8 years ago, but presumably only on this material plane, which would explain why the Witchlight hands have been told to be on lookout (again). That would make "recently" 16 years ago with a hefty confirmation 8 years ago. That would mean "many years ago" relatively would be at least 30 or 40 years ago. If she became a warlock relatively young... for Volo at age 12, she would be at least 42 and be less than 18 years from her life expectancy... for Mordenkainen at age 18, she would be 48-58 and be 30-40 from her life expectancy. It would have had to be very unfortunate timing and take her a long time to realize, for the time line to make sense, so I am finding it improbable that "the incident" was 24 years ago. But I am open to arguments the other way!
Character age restrictions and when they lost something
The characters cannot have lost something until after "the incident", as the people who do that would not have an arrangement to do so until after "the incident". So the characters must have either lost something 8 or 16 years ago, when they were children (3-16 years old), and are now adults (minimum of 18).
That would make a character between 18 (lost something at age 10, 8 years ago), and 32 (lost something at age 16, 16 years ago) years old.
But it is not mentioned in the hook, that the characters should be 18-32 of age - or anywhere in that vicinity! (18-40 years old if "the incident" was a little over 24 years ago)
My problem
My characters have just caught Kettlestream and will be talking with her next session... The timeline will simply not work!
We have an elf age 105, who is assuming he lost something 80 years ago, and someone age 45 who lost something 40 years ago, one loss 32 years ago, two 24 years ago (and two more recent. Yes, a big party!). If we for the purposes of this ignore the elf and say "the incident" happened 42 years ago. Kettlestream's "many years ago" would be perhaps 45. That would give her only three years to get used to her patron, but then it took her over 20 years to realize something was wrong..., making "recent" 22 years ago, and perhaps she did visit the carnival both 16 and 8 years ago. I find it unlikely it could or would have taken her so long - two decades - to realize something was different/wrong.
I know I will need the elf to change his age and timeline, but if the age limit is 40 I have at least three characters that need a new date of birth. If the limit is 32 years I have four characters
My questions
How many years ago is "Recent"?
How many years is the longest it would make sense to take a warlock to realize they are no longer "in touch" with their patron (provided the abilities remain)?
Given this, how long ago could "the incident" have happened?
No one needs to change their age, they just need to have lost something around the same time. (Unless somehow that age thing is super important).
A warlock should notice something rather quickly (way less than a year). Of course if the warlock doesn't interact with their patron it can be considerably longer and in some cases where a warlock is just drawing power from the patron and there has been no loss of power, a warlock may never know. A lot depends on her relationship with the Patron and how impacted the patron is.
I think you don't have to worry about it too much.
It's not really a problem. Time in the fey wild is weird and it could be so dilated that so that 80 years ago may have only been last week for Kettlesteam. If the carnival opens every fey day but only appears in the real world every 8 years then perhaps every night when the carnival closes 8 years pass in the real world.
It also doesn't necessarily have it's chronology match up with the material world or appear every where in the same way. For example it may appear every 8 years because it goes some where different every year on a cycle but in the fey realm it might be that they spend a month in a place at time but in the real world it appears as them appearing every 8 years the the next month they go to a different place and similar appear to arrive every 8 years in the real world but also in the real world this happens at the same time as previous ones.
No one needs to change their age, they just need to have lost something around the same time. (Unless somehow that age thing is super important).
A warlock should notice something rather quickly (way less than a year). Of course if the warlock doesn't interact with their patron it can be considerably longer and in some cases where a warlock is just drawing power from the patron and there has been no loss of power, a warlock may never know. A lot depends on her relationship with the Patron and how impacted the patron is.
I think you don't have to worry about it too much.
The issue is that the premise of the hook is that they "lost something" when they were children, and as adults they visit the Carnival again - feeling the loss pull them back. And they now meet Kettlestream who made the pact with their patron before the characters childhood visit, who tells them that something "recently" change with their patron - related to what enabled the children to loose their things. So Kettlestream would have to be old enough to have made the pact and remember what that felt like, yet not so old that they are "too old" and would still refer to the change to be "recent".
With seven players who knows this is a feywild related adventure, they are very observant about things that do not add up.
It's not really a problem. Time in the fey wild is weird and it could be so dilated that so that 80 years ago may have only been last week for Kettlesteam. If the carnival opens every fey day but only appears in the real world every 8 years then perhaps every night when the carnival closes 8 years pass in the real world.
It also doesn't necessarily have it's chronology match up with the material world or appear every where in the same way. For example it may appear every 8 years because it goes some where different every year on a cycle but in the fey realm it might be that they spend a month in a place at time but in the real world it appears as them appearing every 8 years the the next month they go to a different place and similar appear to arrive every 8 years in the real world but also in the real world this happens at the same time as previous ones.
Neither the carnival, nor Kettlestream goes to the feywild as far as I understand. Kettlestream lives in the same material plane as the characters. The Carnival visits different material planes, and as I understand it has more than one stop on each material plane.
Along the way, the characters will meet more people who remember a time before - but those people are in the feywild, so there I can do the "feywild is mis-aligned", but for the same material plane that does not quite work...
I am running Wild beyond the Witchlight using the Lost Things hook.
I am struggling with the timeline for "the incident" and other events, and how that relates to the characters ages. My reasoning is as follows...
"The incident" is when Zybilna is frozen in stasis and the hags take over her domain, giving them leverage over the carnival and thereby allowing them to take something from people without tickets.
The hook goes:
And continues with:
Ok, so they were children when they lost something, are now adults, and the carnival comes by every 8 years.
But then in the carnival they meet Kettlestream the kenku. Two of the pieces of information about her is:
According to Volo:
While Mordenkainen states
So, Kettlestream has had her patron for "many years" and has "Recently" been convinced something is wrong with her patron, but apparently she was suspicious during her "last visit", presumably 8 years ago. She has a life expectancy of 60-100 years.
With Kettlestream not being described as old, having made her warlock pact "many years ago" and "recently" noticed something wrong, the timeframe of when "the incident" happened would be more than 8 years ago, but probably not more than 17 years.
Personally, I would not refer to something more than 10 years ago as "recent", but let's say that for an older person, this could perhaps stretch to 15 years.
If "the incident" happened 24-25 years ago, then it should have taken Kettlestream almost eight years to realize a change had happened, she would then have just missed the carnival 16 years ago, and only started bothering the carnival 8 years ago, but presumably only on this material plane, which would explain why the Witchlight hands have been told to be on lookout (again).
That would make "recently" 16 years ago with a hefty confirmation 8 years ago. That would mean "many years ago" relatively would be at least 30 or 40 years ago. If she became a warlock relatively young... for Volo at age 12, she would be at least 42 and be less than 18 years from her life expectancy... for Mordenkainen at age 18, she would be 48-58 and be 30-40 from her life expectancy.
It would have had to be very unfortunate timing and take her a long time to realize, for the time line to make sense, so I am finding it improbable that "the incident" was 24 years ago. But I am open to arguments the other way!
Character age restrictions and when they lost something
The characters cannot have lost something until after "the incident", as the people who do that would not have an arrangement to do so until after "the incident". So the characters must have either lost something 8 or 16 years ago, when they were children (3-16 years old), and are now adults (minimum of 18).
That would make a character between 18 (lost something at age 10, 8 years ago), and 32 (lost something at age 16, 16 years ago) years old.
But it is not mentioned in the hook, that the characters should be 18-32 of age - or anywhere in that vicinity! (18-40 years old if "the incident" was a little over 24 years ago)
My problem
My characters have just caught Kettlestream and will be talking with her next session... The timeline will simply not work!
We have an elf age 105, who is assuming he lost something 80 years ago, and someone age 45 who lost something 40 years ago, one loss 32 years ago, two 24 years ago (and two more recent. Yes, a big party!).
If we for the purposes of this ignore the elf and say "the incident" happened 42 years ago. Kettlestream's "many years ago" would be perhaps 45. That would give her only three years to get used to her patron, but then it took her over 20 years to realize something was wrong..., making "recent" 22 years ago, and perhaps she did visit the carnival both 16 and 8 years ago.
I find it unlikely it could or would have taken her so long - two decades - to realize something was different/wrong.
I know I will need the elf to change his age and timeline, but if the age limit is 40 I have at least three characters that need a new date of birth. If the limit is 32 years I have four characters
My questions
How many years ago is "Recent"?
How many years is the longest it would make sense to take a warlock to realize they are no longer "in touch" with their patron (provided the abilities remain)?
Given this, how long ago could "the incident" have happened?
Thank you in advance for any input!
No one needs to change their age, they just need to have lost something around the same time. (Unless somehow that age thing is super important).
A warlock should notice something rather quickly (way less than a year). Of course if the warlock doesn't interact with their patron it can be considerably longer and in some cases where a warlock is just drawing power from the patron and there has been no loss of power, a warlock may never know. A lot depends on her relationship with the Patron and how impacted the patron is.
I think you don't have to worry about it too much.
Time doesn't always pass in a regular fashion when dealing with other planes.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
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-Ilyara Thundertale
It's not really a problem. Time in the fey wild is weird and it could be so dilated that so that 80 years ago may have only been last week for Kettlesteam. If the carnival opens every fey day but only appears in the real world every 8 years then perhaps every night when the carnival closes 8 years pass in the real world.
It also doesn't necessarily have it's chronology match up with the material world or appear every where in the same way. For example it may appear every 8 years because it goes some where different every year on a cycle but in the fey realm it might be that they spend a month in a place at time but in the real world it appears as them appearing every 8 years the the next month they go to a different place and similar appear to arrive every 8 years in the real world but also in the real world this happens at the same time as previous ones.
Thank you for your inputs - but it does not do much to answer my questions.
The issue is that the premise of the hook is that they "lost something" when they were children, and as adults they visit the Carnival again - feeling the loss pull them back. And they now meet Kettlestream who made the pact with their patron before the characters childhood visit, who tells them that something "recently" change with their patron - related to what enabled the children to loose their things. So Kettlestream would have to be old enough to have made the pact and remember what that felt like, yet not so old that they are "too old" and would still refer to the change to be "recent".
With seven players who knows this is a feywild related adventure, they are very observant about things that do not add up.
Neither the carnival, nor Kettlestream goes to the feywild as far as I understand. Kettlestream lives in the same material plane as the characters. The Carnival visits different material planes, and as I understand it has more than one stop on each material plane.
Along the way, the characters will meet more people who remember a time before - but those people are in the feywild, so there I can do the "feywild is mis-aligned", but for the same material plane that does not quite work...
Repeat after me: "Wibbly-Wobbly, Timey-Wimey."
Magic is weird, especially when faeries are involved. Don't worry about it too much.