This is addressed mostly to folks who have played tier 4 in AL though if you have an opinion no matter your experience, please chime in.
I'm wondering how important it is for effectiveness at tier 4 to have a caster build that includes 9th level spells and spell slots?
I currently have a 1 fighter/2 GOO warlock/ 4 dragon sorcerer character which I enjoy playing but which could develop in several different ways depending on what seems fun.
Options would include -
- 1 fighter/2 warlock/sorcerer 17
- 2 fighter/3 warlock/sorcerer 15
- 1 fighter/2 warlock/2 rogue/sorcerer 15
- 2 fighter/3warlock/3 rogue/sorcerer 12
- 1 fighter/4 warlock/sorcerer 15
- 1 fighter/5 or 7 warlock/14 or 12 sorcerer
There are lots of combinations that I think could be fun to play all the way through.
However, only one of the options gives 9th level spells and spell slots. If 9th level spells are crucial by the end of tier 4 then I'll go that route. Otherwise, I will just level him up as seems like the most fun.
On the other hand, I won't get 9th level spells until level 20 anyway so actually USING level 9 spells in tier 4 would require playing some more after reaching level 20.
Normally it is quite important, as this is how a pure caster get their "big gun". However you play a sorlock. In case you want to play a living machine gun by casting 8 eldritch blasts a round, potentially throwing back your target 80 feet by it you have your big gun there allready. In that case it might be more fun to get more eldritch invocations (that will be quite useful every round) then to get level 9 sorcerer spells (that will be very useful a few times a day).
Personally I am aiming at sorcerer 18/ hexblade warlock 2 with my sorlock (sorcerer 3 / warlock 2 and the moment).
I have a warlock that I was heavily debating even taking up to 5 levels (no more, but possibly less). (only got to level 5 with him so the debate is currently on hold). As a spellcaster multiclassing is a HEAVY sacrifice as EVERY level you delay into a different class is a level delayed from a higher spell level.
In a similar note, I'm currently DMing & a player is asking if they can multiclass their warlock with a level or 2 of fighter. I have no problem with him MCing regarding DM permission but I asked him the same question I had asked myself a dozen or more times.. WHY do I want to multiclass? What's the purpose? What function/mechanic or ability are you trying to achieve.
I'll tell you straight up that having 1) a handful of extra spell slots, 2) having a larger selection of cantrips 3) a larger selection of spells known 4) quickened spell to gatling gun my eldritch blasts (& twinning haste) -- as mentioned above -- and 5) getting to level 5 in sorcerer would give me haste AND slow (I could take slow as an invocation but I HATE invocations that ALSO use spell slots AND I was REALLY peeved to take any non-upcastable spells as a warlock (since all spells are cast at the highest level).
With 5, I think, valid reasons, I was still debating whether i even wanted to take a single level in Sorcerer, let alone 5 of them because every level in sorcerer was another level delayed in getting more warlock spells, more warlock spell slots & the upcasted warlock slots, not to mention I was psyched to get the level 15 hurl through hell fiend ability -- and depending on how I leveled up, would push that ability to level 20!
Now going over with my player, who chose a kraken/lurker in the deep warlock who was debating taking a level or 2 of fighter because he wanted his warlock to be a frontliner without going Hexblade. Sure he could have taken fighter to get Con saves & all martial & armor proficiencies & the fighting style at level 1 would be nice & action surge at level 2 would be cool to have but I discussed it with him and told him that it would put a delay on his spells learned/leveled and a delay in his invocations and besides for the fact that I already gave him proficiency with Tridents just to fit his theme (his primarily used weapon), he would be getting proficiency from it ANY WAY with the pact of the blade - which he took), regarding armor, the new UA invocation covers that. I told him Con saves, auto-armor proficiency (doesn't need to rely on the UA invocation), fighting style is definitely a fair & valid reason in delaying the warlock build, especially for only a 1 level dip (taking 2 for action surge, also may be worth it but again, needs to be considered on its own worth).
There are crazy builds out there full builds or multiclassed - whether 2 classes or all 12. whether for exploitation, min/max, viability, pure RP (yet completely sucky mechanics and optimization).. All these are fine and fun and up to you.. just have a reason and know what it is, whether its to be optimized or pure fun, either is valid. Like I've made a gloomstalker 3/swashbuckler 3/bladesinger 2 and got like a 23+ to initiative WITHOUT even rolling the d20 but other than that, he sucked in every other way but i did what I wanted him to do
In my case, the character is a yuan-ti pureblood so the source of +1 is limited to volos.
The character backstory is the following (just to set the role playing concept ...)
"Crimsn is the name I chose when I entered human society. I was 14. I was born deep in the fastness of the Sky Lizard Mountains of Chult. My parents were Yuan-ti, the snake people. They consider themselves better that any other race and it shows. The society is also highly stratified and as a pureblood I was considered barely above the level of a slave. My parents chose to be Yuan-ti. I didn't have that choice. When I was young, I showed an aversion to the rituals and feasting that characterized the life of the people. I somehow empathized with those that were sacrificed as part of the rituals. Some would be elevated to be purebloods but the rest were fodder and most did not want to be there. At the age of 8, my martial training began, since purebloods were rarely deemed worthy of any role better than foot soldier or spy. This allowed me to escape the settlement, joining watch details or hunting for food. These were good reasons to be out of the settlement when the rituals were conducted. However, when I was 12, I started having odd dreams. A creature was trapped and needed help. Sometimes it was a deer, other times a dinosaur, sometimes a food animal or a human, in the dreams I felt an overwhelming need to aid them. This "feeling" was very unusual. It felt like sunlight on the skin after a heavy rainfall in the jungle. It felt liberating. Over the next few days, the dreams changed. They began to be more specific and included images from within the settlement. There was a room in a secluded section of the area of the settlement used by the warlocks and the malisons who ran the colony. It was an area that all but a few were forbidden to enter though there were ways to enter. Having grown up here, I had explored extensively due to my endless curiosity. My urge to follow the dreams grew. Late one night, I escaped the creche where the young yuan-ti slept and stealthily made my way to the room in my dreams. In the middle of the room was a roiling mass of mixed dark and light surrounded by runes marked on the floor. It seemed to be a very small part of a much greater whole and it felt "sad". A voice spoke into my mind using no words. It promised to open my mind and expand my understanding and empathy, offered to guide and counsel me. All that was needed in exchange was for me to erase some of the runic markings. It was tempting, but I resisted and returned to the creche to ponder the offer. Over the next week, I returned to the room several times in the deep of night. The runic carvings changed and became more complex, the creature became more frantic and it became clear that the warlocks planned to sacrifice the entity to Dendar. On the third visit, I found within myself the resolve to prevent this sacrifice. It was wrong. I was not under the influence of the confined creature. I have always had a strong will and made my own decisions. That night, I defied my people, broke the runic circle and freed the creature. I returned to the creche without being noticed. The following morning was an uproar. A pogrom to discover the traitor who had freed the being began. They overlooked the children. The following year I disappeared into the jungle left Chult and journeyed to the Sword coast. My adventures had begun."
Fighter/GOO Warlock/Sorcerer fits my back story (not surprising :) ). Yes, there is a sacrifice in spell slots and spells known. However, I built the character from a mechanical perspective to rely on eldritch blast and later some other spells to support those he travels with as he learns about the greater world. He will probably take sorcerer until at least 9 for the next ASI (20 charisma) and 5th level spells but after that I might branch out a bit depending on whether I decide 8th and 9th level spells or some added versatility will be more fun to play.
Thanks for the comments so far. I'm really just trying to figure out how important the 8th and 9th level spells are at tier 4 vs. the added versatility and some fun from other features.
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This is addressed mostly to folks who have played tier 4 in AL though if you have an opinion no matter your experience, please chime in.
I'm wondering how important it is for effectiveness at tier 4 to have a caster build that includes 9th level spells and spell slots?
I currently have a 1 fighter/2 GOO warlock/ 4 dragon sorcerer character which I enjoy playing but which could develop in several different ways depending on what seems fun.
Options would include -
- 1 fighter/2 warlock/sorcerer 17
- 2 fighter/3 warlock/sorcerer 15
- 1 fighter/2 warlock/2 rogue/sorcerer 15
- 2 fighter/3warlock/3 rogue/sorcerer 12
- 1 fighter/4 warlock/sorcerer 15
- 1 fighter/5 or 7 warlock/14 or 12 sorcerer
There are lots of combinations that I think could be fun to play all the way through.
However, only one of the options gives 9th level spells and spell slots. If 9th level spells are crucial by the end of tier 4 then I'll go that route. Otherwise, I will just level him up as seems like the most fun.
On the other hand, I won't get 9th level spells until level 20 anyway so actually USING level 9 spells in tier 4 would require playing some more after reaching level 20.
Normally it is quite important, as this is how a pure caster get their "big gun". However you play a sorlock. In case you want to play a living machine gun by casting 8 eldritch blasts a round, potentially throwing back your target 80 feet by it you have your big gun there allready. In that case it might be more fun to get more eldritch invocations (that will be quite useful every round) then to get level 9 sorcerer spells (that will be very useful a few times a day).
Personally I am aiming at sorcerer 18/ hexblade warlock 2 with my sorlock (sorcerer 3 / warlock 2 and the moment).
I have a warlock that I was heavily debating even taking up to 5 levels (no more, but possibly less). (only got to level 5 with him so the debate is currently on hold). As a spellcaster multiclassing is a HEAVY sacrifice as EVERY level you delay into a different class is a level delayed from a higher spell level.
In a similar note, I'm currently DMing & a player is asking if they can multiclass their warlock with a level or 2 of fighter. I have no problem with him MCing regarding DM permission but I asked him the same question I had asked myself a dozen or more times.. WHY do I want to multiclass? What's the purpose? What function/mechanic or ability are you trying to achieve.
I'll tell you straight up that having 1) a handful of extra spell slots, 2) having a larger selection of cantrips 3) a larger selection of spells known 4) quickened spell to gatling gun my eldritch blasts (& twinning haste) -- as mentioned above -- and 5) getting to level 5 in sorcerer would give me haste AND slow (I could take slow as an invocation but I HATE invocations that ALSO use spell slots AND I was REALLY peeved to take any non-upcastable spells as a warlock (since all spells are cast at the highest level).
With 5, I think, valid reasons, I was still debating whether i even wanted to take a single level in Sorcerer, let alone 5 of them because every level in sorcerer was another level delayed in getting more warlock spells, more warlock spell slots & the upcasted warlock slots, not to mention I was psyched to get the level 15 hurl through hell fiend ability -- and depending on how I leveled up, would push that ability to level 20!
Now going over with my player, who chose a kraken/lurker in the deep warlock who was debating taking a level or 2 of fighter because he wanted his warlock to be a frontliner without going Hexblade. Sure he could have taken fighter to get Con saves & all martial & armor proficiencies & the fighting style at level 1 would be nice & action surge at level 2 would be cool to have but I discussed it with him and told him that it would put a delay on his spells learned/leveled and a delay in his invocations and besides for the fact that I already gave him proficiency with Tridents just to fit his theme (his primarily used weapon), he would be getting proficiency from it ANY WAY with the pact of the blade - which he took), regarding armor, the new UA invocation covers that. I told him Con saves, auto-armor proficiency (doesn't need to rely on the UA invocation), fighting style is definitely a fair & valid reason in delaying the warlock build, especially for only a 1 level dip (taking 2 for action surge, also may be worth it but again, needs to be considered on its own worth).
There are crazy builds out there full builds or multiclassed - whether 2 classes or all 12. whether for exploitation, min/max, viability, pure RP (yet completely sucky mechanics and optimization).. All these are fine and fun and up to you.. just have a reason and know what it is, whether its to be optimized or pure fun, either is valid. Like I've made a gloomstalker 3/swashbuckler 3/bladesinger 2 and got like a 23+ to initiative WITHOUT even rolling the d20 but other than that, he sucked in every other way but i did what I wanted him to do
In my case, the character is a yuan-ti pureblood so the source of +1 is limited to volos.
The character backstory is the following (just to set the role playing concept ...)
"Crimsn is the name I chose when I entered human society. I was 14. I was born deep in the fastness of the Sky Lizard Mountains of Chult. My parents were Yuan-ti, the snake people. They consider themselves better that any other race and it shows. The society is also highly stratified and as a pureblood I was considered barely above the level of a slave. My parents chose to be Yuan-ti. I didn't have that choice. When I was young, I showed an aversion to the rituals and feasting that characterized the life of the people. I somehow empathized with those that were sacrificed as part of the rituals. Some would be elevated to be purebloods but the rest were fodder and most did not want to be there. At the age of 8, my martial training began, since purebloods were rarely deemed worthy of any role better than foot soldier or spy. This allowed me to escape the settlement, joining watch details or hunting for food. These were good reasons to be out of the settlement when the rituals were conducted. However, when I was 12, I started having odd dreams. A creature was trapped and needed help. Sometimes it was a deer, other times a dinosaur, sometimes a food animal or a human, in the dreams I felt an overwhelming need to aid them. This "feeling" was very unusual. It felt like sunlight on the skin after a heavy rainfall in the jungle. It felt liberating. Over the next few days, the dreams changed. They began to be more specific and included images from within the settlement. There was a room in a secluded section of the area of the settlement used by the warlocks and the malisons who ran the colony. It was an area that all but a few were forbidden to enter though there were ways to enter. Having grown up here, I had explored extensively due to my endless curiosity. My urge to follow the dreams grew. Late one night, I escaped the creche where the young yuan-ti slept and stealthily made my way to the room in my dreams. In the middle of the room was a roiling mass of mixed dark and light surrounded by runes marked on the floor. It seemed to be a very small part of a much greater whole and it felt "sad". A voice spoke into my mind using no words. It promised to open my mind and expand my understanding and empathy, offered to guide and counsel me. All that was needed in exchange was for me to erase some of the runic markings. It was tempting, but I resisted and returned to the creche to ponder the offer. Over the next week, I returned to the room several times in the deep of night. The runic carvings changed and became more complex, the creature became more frantic and it became clear that the warlocks planned to sacrifice the entity to Dendar. On the third visit, I found within myself the resolve to prevent this sacrifice. It was wrong. I was not under the influence of the confined creature. I have always had a strong will and made my own decisions. That night, I defied my people, broke the runic circle and freed the creature. I returned to the creche without being noticed. The following morning was an uproar. A pogrom to discover the traitor who had freed the being began. They overlooked the children. The following year I disappeared into the jungle left Chult and journeyed to the Sword coast. My adventures had begun."
Fighter/GOO Warlock/Sorcerer fits my back story (not surprising :) ). Yes, there is a sacrifice in spell slots and spells known. However, I built the character from a mechanical perspective to rely on eldritch blast and later some other spells to support those he travels with as he learns about the greater world. He will probably take sorcerer until at least 9 for the next ASI (20 charisma) and 5th level spells but after that I might branch out a bit depending on whether I decide 8th and 9th level spells or some added versatility will be more fun to play.
Thanks for the comments so far. I'm really just trying to figure out how important the 8th and 9th level spells are at tier 4 vs. the added versatility and some fun from other features.