I've been playing with a group going on 5 years now, and it looks like it might be my turn to DM an adventure. Shouldn't be too big of a problem because I've DM'd other adventures for other parties before. However with this group, I just knoweveryone will pick a primary spellcaster. So, my concern is 1) that the party will try to stay out of combat and 2) that once they are in combat, encounters could easily become fatal. There would be 4 people in the party. Any suggestions on an adventure that might suit the party? Any other way I should handle this?
You could provide them with an NPC tank - either a barbarian or a fighter - who can take the hits for them. Barbarians are good because they have a lot of hit points. Given them magic items and a free feat to start that up their armor class and/or HP. Wild Beyond the Witchlight is a fun adventure that encourages players not to get into combat situations so you could try that. I think Sly Flourish has tips changing combat encounters on the fly so you can give the party a satisfying fight without a TPK.
Throw some opponents at them who want to stay out of melee too. A group of goblin archers who aren’t wearing armor for example.
Throw some “normal” encounters at them and let them figure out how to handle them. Just don’t start the encounters with a thug holding a knife to one of their throats, give them some space so that at least some of them will be able to get a spell off before they’re in melee. I’m sure they’ll come up with some creative solutions that will catch you off guard.
I agree with throwing some regular encounters at them to begin. A few Goblins, archers and maybe a couple sword swingers, to give some kind of threat. With 4 players, all choosing spellcasters, there should be ample control type magic at hand to help deal with the things that will seek to close distance. Make them work and make them get creative to survive. I wouldn't go too far in customizing encounters to accommodate the group makeup. I'd make the group adjust tactics to address everyday encounters, as any other "balanced" group might.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
You as the DM provides the world for the party to tackle. You don't customize the world to suit the parties weakness. They will have to figure out how they want to handle combat. You can give them the standard henchmen (guard from MM) and possibly a hireling (henchmen). If they can keep them up and fight, they are working. If they can't, then maybe the party gets a TPK or loses a few guys while running for their lives and rethink their characters in game life decisions. If you coddle players, and you can coddle, they'll never become better at the game. And D&D is a game and you can get much better at it, go to a convention and play with some smart folks. They will RP and outcombat what you think is possible, using the rules as written.
You as the DM provides the world for the party to tackle. You don't customize the world to suit the parties weakness. They will have to figure out how they want to handle combat. You can give them the standard henchmen (guard from MM) and possibly a hireling (henchmen). If they can keep them up and fight, they are working. If they can't, then maybe the party gets a TPK or loses a few guys while running for their lives and rethink their characters in game life decisions. If you coddle players, and you can coddle, they'll never become better at the game. And D&D is a game and you can get much better at it, go to a convention and play with some smart folks. They will RP and outcombat what you think is possible, using the rules as written.
I agree I wouldn't worry too much about adjusting to the party. To some degree the party has to adjust to the challenge. I also wouldn't worry about primary spell casters being too squishy with minor multi classing they can easily be as tanky as any other class and they have things like summoning and defensive spells available. Them completely avoiding combat is an issue because the utility of spell casters can be insane. Ultimately you just need to set goals that are a bit more complex than waltz in and grab the loot then it should be fine.
As for which adventure, strixhaven immediately comes to mind for a campaign with lots of casters. It could also be fun to do an all caster campaign of wild beyond the witch light where all the grumpy old wizards get turned into kids for the witch light carnival, it wouldn't hamper them too much because they are all magic any way and witch light as an explicit design goal aimed for non combat solutions.
As long as the NPC is friendly to the party, let the party run them as a pet, set it up that the pets only move AFTER the player and at most let the player have 1 pet under control. For xp it depends on the character and the same for treasure, henchmen = 1/4 PC for XP and hirelings = 1/2 PC for XP. I only allow hirelings at 1/2 max level of players. Hirelings also can betray the party at the worse possible times if they are a plant OR if the player does something egregiously stupid with a hireling like tell the hireling to tank a hill giant while the party retreats, I won't even roll wisdom, I tell them the hireling retreats with the party. Henchmen and Hirelings has been with the game since 1E. It gives the party a gold dump early on in the game and makes it harder to die in levels 1-2 where its common to get critted and die. If the players don't choose to take henchmen who just want a share of the treasure, that's when I smile when they go into their first dungeon.
1: Space. Too often, encounters start within 30ft. of the enemy, and anyone with longbows or spells will be somewhat disgruntled.
2: Don't hold back too much. If they want to stay out of melee they will need to make some tactics or get pounded. This is why making a balanced party is important for the players.
3: Not every spellcaster is a wizard. I've seen warlocks as the tank of the party before - a tortle warlock with a shield & hexblade is pretty tanky.
For an epicly fun scene, if they do all pick wizards and sorcerors, have them face off against a rival group of spellcasters. Then have someone drop an antimagic item which nullifies all the magic from both parties - and watch the old, bearded men in robes trying to hit each other in combat. Make the enemies just as pitiful at melee as the party. It'll be funny!
Setting your worlds tone is a primary DM function. If you create a world where life is cheap and death comes often, then flat tell the players that. If you want a RP heavy campaign, project that to the players. Whatever the tone of the world, be up front with your players, so that they can create characters that are cohesive to the world that they will inhabit.
This entire discussion is predicated on the assumption that your players will all pick spellcaster and will all avoid combat. Has this happened in the group in the 5 years that you've been together? I'm going to suppose the answer is no, otherwise you would have seen how to handle this when you and the rest of the party all decided to play magic users. What I'm getting to here is: After 5 years of playing this game together as a group, you get an idea of what works at the table and what doesn't. I would venture to say that your group fits into the "seasoned player" band of the spectrum. Let them decide what kind of party they want to play. You might want to focus on giving them the information required to make a good decision that will fit into your world.
As for the Henchmen or "Tank NPC" that has been floated out here in a couple of places. "Tank NPC" is just soft-language for DMPC. Henchmen are trained commoners that are meant to guard your Desmene/Stronghold - a commoner with a d8 longsword or longbow attack. They are portable food for something. Hirelings are just commoners who carry the party's kit and won't join battle. More portable food, and when they are taken out of the equation, who's carrying all that stuff back to town? If you want the party to have a sidekick, use the rules from TCoE and give the party sidekicks and adjust combat accordingly. Generally, I will just add another "Generic PC of Party Level" into the encounter balance equation and go from there. Trick might be to know when you've gotten too heavy-handed in a combat encounter and know how to dial it back at the table. Dials of Monster Difficulty - SlyFlourish
Good luck and focus on having fun!
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Do not do anything special. let them game plan and come up with a way to overcome. I would like the challenge, I always wanted to be a part of an all wizard party. But all in all I do not think it will be as bad as you think.
In a game, I run three out of the four players are spell casters, Cleric, Warlock, Sorcerer. While the cleric can hold its own in combat the player usually keeps him at range distance. Now the problem run into is that both of the other spell casters have the spell Shatter and they team up to blanket the map in most cases than not they wipe out my encounters quicker than I'd like. Even at melee range, they play with the spell edge so the blast just hits the enemies from behind.
So give your players a chance to come up with their own strategy you might be surprised what they can do once they start thinking about their own skill as players and characters.
Player: "I cast shatter!"
DM: "Of course you do. * sigh * what's the save again?"
Now what the players DO run into is they blow through their spell slots pretty quickly and finding the time and a safe location for rest can be a challenge. Sometimes a wandering monster want's to say, Hi, and see what's everyone up to and if that is beef stew they are cooking.
Agree with those who have stated "don't tailor encounters to fit the party" to a significant degree. Sometimes it's cool to put in something that lets a player shine - a "beat the clock to escape" lock picking challenge or a bunch of undead for the cleric to vaporize, but if it's the whole party and they all choose bard, wizard and sorcerer then they have to learn to deal with not having a front line by themselves.
Plan encounters as per normal as though they were any normal fight, and let the PCs figure out the solutions. They may begin multiclassing if they have problems and that's cool.
The real question is are you going to home brew the setting or are you using modules that are already out there to run the game? If you are going to home brew, are they in this as a magical investigation service, where they are going to report their findings to the local magistrate to take care of the ogre steal live stock from the local farmers or will they be the mage death squad of assassins' that are dispatched to remove misbehaved socialites from high society... Do they have to mingle in a party to get to their target and collect their rewards or do they have to battle staving goblins that are feeding the farmers live stock to a troll that they all worship as a deity...
The point to all of this is to have fun white engage with your friends,
You can pull your punches no problem in a game like this, lower the challenge of the encounters ever so slightly in the beginning and see how they handle it. If the encounters are to easy turn up the exp/cr a little and see if they can still handle it.
There is no one right road to a solution for the problems of everyone playing a wizard... but they will surprise you how strong they become in leaps as access to new spells are obtained.
I've been playing with a group going on 5 years now, and it looks like it might be my turn to DM an adventure. Shouldn't be too big of a problem because I've DM'd other adventures for other parties before. However with this group, I just know everyone will pick a primary spellcaster. So, my concern is 1) that the party will try to stay out of combat and 2) that once they are in combat, encounters could easily become fatal. There would be 4 people in the party.
Any suggestions on an adventure that might suit the party? Any other way I should handle this?
You could provide them with an NPC tank - either a barbarian or a fighter - who can take the hits for them. Barbarians are good because they have a lot of hit points. Given them magic items and a free feat to start that up their armor class and/or HP. Wild Beyond the Witchlight is a fun adventure that encourages players not to get into combat situations so you could try that. I think Sly Flourish has tips changing combat encounters on the fly so you can give the party a satisfying fight without a TPK.
Two thoughts.
Throw some opponents at them who want to stay out of melee too. A group of goblin archers who aren’t wearing armor for example.
Throw some “normal” encounters at them and let them figure out how to handle them. Just don’t start the encounters with a thug holding a knife to one of their throats, give them some space so that at least some of them will be able to get a spell off before they’re in melee. I’m sure they’ll come up with some creative solutions that will catch you off guard.
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I agree with throwing some regular encounters at them to begin. A few Goblins, archers and maybe a couple sword swingers, to give some kind of threat. With 4 players, all choosing spellcasters, there should be ample control type magic at hand to help deal with the things that will seek to close distance. Make them work and make them get creative to survive. I wouldn't go too far in customizing encounters to accommodate the group makeup. I'd make the group adjust tactics to address everyday encounters, as any other "balanced" group might.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
You as the DM provides the world for the party to tackle. You don't customize the world to suit the parties weakness. They will have to figure out how they want to handle combat. You can give them the standard henchmen (guard from MM) and possibly a hireling (henchmen). If they can keep them up and fight, they are working. If they can't, then maybe the party gets a TPK or loses a few guys while running for their lives and rethink their characters in game life decisions. If you coddle players, and you can coddle, they'll never become better at the game. And D&D is a game and you can get much better at it, go to a convention and play with some smart folks. They will RP and outcombat what you think is possible, using the rules as written.
I agree I wouldn't worry too much about adjusting to the party. To some degree the party has to adjust to the challenge. I also wouldn't worry about primary spell casters being too squishy with minor multi classing they can easily be as tanky as any other class and they have things like summoning and defensive spells available. Them completely avoiding combat is an issue because the utility of spell casters can be insane. Ultimately you just need to set goals that are a bit more complex than waltz in and grab the loot then it should be fine.
As for which adventure, strixhaven immediately comes to mind for a campaign with lots of casters. It could also be fun to do an all caster campaign of wild beyond the witch light where all the grumpy old wizards get turned into kids for the witch light carnival, it wouldn't hamper them too much because they are all magic any way and witch light as an explicit design goal aimed for non combat solutions.
But giving them NPC henchmen just means it is more work for the DM - or tilts the action economy even more towards the PCs for every encounter.
Having said that, I'm sure the PCs will be summoning enough creatures between them to act as the front line anyway.
As long as the NPC is friendly to the party, let the party run them as a pet, set it up that the pets only move AFTER the player and at most let the player have 1 pet under control. For xp it depends on the character and the same for treasure, henchmen = 1/4 PC for XP and hirelings = 1/2 PC for XP. I only allow hirelings at 1/2 max level of players. Hirelings also can betray the party at the worse possible times if they are a plant OR if the player does something egregiously stupid with a hireling like tell the hireling to tank a hill giant while the party retreats, I won't even roll wisdom, I tell them the hireling retreats with the party. Henchmen and Hirelings has been with the game since 1E. It gives the party a gold dump early on in the game and makes it harder to die in levels 1-2 where its common to get critted and die. If the players don't choose to take henchmen who just want a share of the treasure, that's when I smile when they go into their first dungeon.
1: Space. Too often, encounters start within 30ft. of the enemy, and anyone with longbows or spells will be somewhat disgruntled.
2: Don't hold back too much. If they want to stay out of melee they will need to make some tactics or get pounded. This is why making a balanced party is important for the players.
3: Not every spellcaster is a wizard. I've seen warlocks as the tank of the party before - a tortle warlock with a shield & hexblade is pretty tanky.
For an epicly fun scene, if they do all pick wizards and sorcerors, have them face off against a rival group of spellcasters. Then have someone drop an antimagic item which nullifies all the magic from both parties - and watch the old, bearded men in robes trying to hit each other in combat. Make the enemies just as pitiful at melee as the party. It'll be funny!
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Setting your worlds tone is a primary DM function. If you create a world where life is cheap and death comes often, then flat tell the players that. If you want a RP heavy campaign, project that to the players. Whatever the tone of the world, be up front with your players, so that they can create characters that are cohesive to the world that they will inhabit.
This entire discussion is predicated on the assumption that your players will all pick spellcaster and will all avoid combat. Has this happened in the group in the 5 years that you've been together? I'm going to suppose the answer is no, otherwise you would have seen how to handle this when you and the rest of the party all decided to play magic users. What I'm getting to here is: After 5 years of playing this game together as a group, you get an idea of what works at the table and what doesn't. I would venture to say that your group fits into the "seasoned player" band of the spectrum. Let them decide what kind of party they want to play. You might want to focus on giving them the information required to make a good decision that will fit into your world.
The DM describes the environment, the players describe what they want to do, the DM narrates the results of the adventurers' actions.
As for the Henchmen or "Tank NPC" that has been floated out here in a couple of places. "Tank NPC" is just soft-language for DMPC. Henchmen are trained commoners that are meant to guard your Desmene/Stronghold - a commoner with a d8 longsword or longbow attack. They are portable food for something. Hirelings are just commoners who carry the party's kit and won't join battle. More portable food, and when they are taken out of the equation, who's carrying all that stuff back to town? If you want the party to have a sidekick, use the rules from TCoE and give the party sidekicks and adjust combat accordingly. Generally, I will just add another "Generic PC of Party Level" into the encounter balance equation and go from there. Trick might be to know when you've gotten too heavy-handed in a combat encounter and know how to dial it back at the table. Dials of Monster Difficulty - SlyFlourish
Good luck and focus on having fun!
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Do not do anything special. let them game plan and come up with a way to overcome. I would like the challenge, I always wanted to be a part of an all wizard party. But all in all I do not think it will be as bad as you think.
In a game, I run three out of the four players are spell casters, Cleric, Warlock, Sorcerer. While the cleric can hold its own in combat the player usually keeps him at range distance. Now the problem run into is that both of the other spell casters have the spell Shatter and they team up to blanket the map in most cases than not they wipe out my encounters quicker than I'd like. Even at melee range, they play with the spell edge so the blast just hits the enemies from behind.
So give your players a chance to come up with their own strategy you might be surprised what they can do once they start thinking about their own skill as players and characters.
Player: "I cast shatter!"
DM: "Of course you do. * sigh * what's the save again?"
Now what the players DO run into is they blow through their spell slots pretty quickly and finding the time and a safe location for rest can be a challenge. Sometimes a wandering monster want's to say, Hi, and see what's everyone up to and if that is beef stew they are cooking.
Agree with those who have stated "don't tailor encounters to fit the party" to a significant degree. Sometimes it's cool to put in something that lets a player shine - a "beat the clock to escape" lock picking challenge or a bunch of undead for the cleric to vaporize, but if it's the whole party and they all choose bard, wizard and sorcerer then they have to learn to deal with not having a front line by themselves.
Plan encounters as per normal as though they were any normal fight, and let the PCs figure out the solutions. They may begin multiclassing if they have problems and that's cool.
The real question is are you going to home brew the setting or are you using modules that are already out there to run the game? If you are going to home brew, are they in this as a magical investigation service, where they are going to report their findings to the local magistrate to take care of the ogre steal live stock from the local farmers or will they be the mage death squad of assassins' that are dispatched to remove misbehaved socialites from high society... Do they have to mingle in a party to get to their target and collect their rewards or do they have to battle staving goblins that are feeding the farmers live stock to a troll that they all worship as a deity...
The point to all of this is to have fun white engage with your friends,
You can pull your punches no problem in a game like this, lower the challenge of the encounters ever so slightly in the beginning and see how they handle it. If the encounters are to easy turn up the exp/cr a little and see if they can still handle it.
There is no one right road to a solution for the problems of everyone playing a wizard... but they will surprise you how strong they become in leaps as access to new spells are obtained.
Really hope one of the posts here helps you out.
I like this calculator,
https://kastark.co.uk/rpgs/encounter-calculator-5th/