intrigued how DM's are ruling on players using counter-spell on spell like abilities.
For instance The Evoker Wizard has Sculpted Explosion, which is to all intents and purposes a spell, however because it is a recharge ability that does not include the word Spell in the description then by RAW it can't be counterspelled.
Would you allow your players to counterspell this? If they did say they wanted to counterspell how would you explain the reason why they can't thematically, and if they do counterspell do you still count it as needing to have the recharge roll, or simply that the effect is stopped but not used up?
I would say RAW it's an ability which has a magical effect, but is not a spell and therefore cannot be Counterspelled. However, because the characters don't know that and like you say it acts like a spell, I'd rule that it could be. In-universe I don't see a reason for Counterspell not working. The character has used one of their limited resources on something that the Wizard could get back on a roll of 5 or 6 as opposed to his finite spell uses.
On the other hand, I don't like spells doing things that others do specifically. Antimagic Field would work here because it includes, quote, "spells and other magical effects". However, that's an 8th level spell and you've got to be a 15th level caster to learn it.
I still stick with the first ruling though, I don't run or play games going that high in level anyway.
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Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
No, I wouldn't allow it, by virtue of the fact that 1) it's not a spell and I'm a RAW DM, 2) some spell-like abilities (such as the Evoker's Potent Cantrips or Overchannel) are automatic and/or intrinsically tied with spells, so how would someone know the ability is being used and how could it not affect the spell itself?, and most importantly 3) the slippery slope makes this easily abused and tiresome to me.
If spell-like abilities can be counterspelled, you open up a can of worms: Druid wild shapes into a dire wolf? Nah, Counterspell. Grave Cleric uses Channel Divinity for Path to the Grave? Nope, Counterspelled. Arcane archer shoots a magic arrow? Warlock's Devil's Sight? Paladin's smite? Dragon's breath weapon? Nightwalker's Annihilating Aura? I'd hate to be the player whose character's core mechanics can be deleted by a third-level spell, and I'd hate to be the DM whose monster's features are consistently nullified by the same. That's just not my preferred style of play.
So to clarify I am talking about this “monster” from the monsters of the universe when I talk about Evoker wizards,
It does very much feel like Sculpted Explosion should be listed as a spell attack and be allowed to be counterspelled, but I am going back and forth on it.
So I am not talking about wild shape or other abilities, this is purely monster abilities, usually recharge one’s, that are clearly spells and not some other effect
RAW it's not a spell, so it can't be counterspelled. If you want to treat it as a spell, you'll have to decide what level it is. As for recharge, if you give a monster an action such as
Fireball Flinger (Recharge 5-6): the wizard casts fireball
it's clear how that would work: the fireball would be countered and fireball flinger would go on cooldown, and would recharge normally.
According to D&D Player's HandBook, page 228, the spell description reads:
You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell.
If the creature is casting a spell of 3rd level or lower, its spell fail and has no effect.
Ruling against magic recharge effects or spell-like abilities is inconsistent and not recommended considering the most important component requirement to casting a spell is either a verbal, somatic or material cost.
Counterspell is a spell that is cast in Reaction when the caster sees a creature within 60 feet about to cast a spell; spell-like abilities don't require any spell casting components.
Counterspell is a 3rd level spell that has a full lockdown on any spell lower than 3rd level; counterspelling a 4th level spell or higher requires a Difficulty Class check.
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intrigued how DM's are ruling on players using counter-spell on spell like abilities.
For instance The Evoker Wizard has Sculpted Explosion, which is to all intents and purposes a spell, however because it is a recharge ability that does not include the word Spell in the description then by RAW it can't be counterspelled.
Would you allow your players to counterspell this? If they did say they wanted to counterspell how would you explain the reason why they can't thematically, and if they do counterspell do you still count it as needing to have the recharge roll, or simply that the effect is stopped but not used up?
I would say RAW it's an ability which has a magical effect, but is not a spell and therefore cannot be Counterspelled. However, because the characters don't know that and like you say it acts like a spell, I'd rule that it could be. In-universe I don't see a reason for Counterspell not working. The character has used one of their limited resources on something that the Wizard could get back on a roll of 5 or 6 as opposed to his finite spell uses.
On the other hand, I don't like spells doing things that others do specifically. Antimagic Field would work here because it includes, quote, "spells and other magical effects". However, that's an 8th level spell and you've got to be a 15th level caster to learn it.
I still stick with the first ruling though, I don't run or play games going that high in level anyway.
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
No, I wouldn't allow it, by virtue of the fact that 1) it's not a spell and I'm a RAW DM, 2) some spell-like abilities (such as the Evoker's Potent Cantrips or Overchannel) are automatic and/or intrinsically tied with spells, so how would someone know the ability is being used and how could it not affect the spell itself?, and most importantly 3) the slippery slope makes this easily abused and tiresome to me.
If spell-like abilities can be counterspelled, you open up a can of worms: Druid wild shapes into a dire wolf? Nah, Counterspell. Grave Cleric uses Channel Divinity for Path to the Grave? Nope, Counterspelled. Arcane archer shoots a magic arrow? Warlock's Devil's Sight? Paladin's smite? Dragon's breath weapon? Nightwalker's Annihilating Aura? I'd hate to be the player whose character's core mechanics can be deleted by a third-level spell, and I'd hate to be the DM whose monster's features are consistently nullified by the same. That's just not my preferred style of play.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/2560807-evoker-wizard
So to clarify I am talking about this “monster” from the monsters of the universe when I talk about Evoker wizards,
It does very much feel like Sculpted Explosion should be listed as a spell attack and be allowed to be counterspelled, but I am going back and forth on it.
So I am not talking about wild shape or other abilities, this is purely monster abilities, usually recharge one’s, that are clearly spells and not some other effect
RAW it's not a spell, so it can't be counterspelled. If you want to treat it as a spell, you'll have to decide what level it is. As for recharge, if you give a monster an action such as
Fireball Flinger (Recharge 5-6): the wizard casts fireball
it's clear how that would work: the fireball would be countered and fireball flinger would go on cooldown, and would recharge normally.
According to D&D Player's HandBook, page 228, the spell description reads:
Ruling against magic recharge effects or spell-like abilities is inconsistent and not recommended considering the most important component requirement to casting a spell is either a verbal, somatic or material cost.
Counterspell is a spell that is cast in Reaction when the caster sees a creature within 60 feet about to cast a spell; spell-like abilities don't require any spell casting components.
Counterspell is a 3rd level spell that has a full lockdown on any spell lower than 3rd level; counterspelling a 4th level spell or higher requires a Difficulty Class check.