As I flesh out my homebrew setting, my attention has turned to the Planes.
I've been playing D&D for over 40 years, but I've just never really liked how the various Planes (Inner, Outer, Elemental, etc.) have been handled. Despite that, I've never really bothered to change much.
I did like how they were handled for Eberron, and Dark Sun mostly. At least they were different.
Anyway, what I'm wondering is this; what would be the implications, in terms of existing mechanics and assumptions about how the game world generally operates, of severely downsizing the whole cosmological ball of wax?
For example:
1-No traveling to realms typically associated with the afterlife (Heavens, Hells, Paradises, whatever). What happens after death is a mystery, not a vacation destination.
2-There are no Elemental Planes as such. If there are, they are a totally alien mystery to mortal creatures and inimical to life as we know it. This goes for Positive and Negative Energy Planes as well.
3-The only known Planes, and the only ones that are accessible to mortals, would be Ethereal and Astral.
4-Anything else that needs to exist for the story (Faerie, Shadowlands, Carceri maybe, etc.) would be realms which technically are in one of those two Planes (Astral and Ethereal)
Would that cause a breakdown in any obvious way? Class abilities, spells, monsters, etc?
What would that do to the concept of Spelljamming?
As I flesh out my homebrew setting, my attention has turned to the Planes.
I've been playing D&D for over 40 years, but I've just never really liked how the various Planes (Inner, Outer, Elemental, etc.) have been handled. Despite that, I've never really bothered to change much.
I did like how they were handled for Eberron, and Dark Sun mostly. At least they were different.
Anyway, what I'm wondering is this; what would be the implications, in terms of existing mechanics and assumptions about how the game world generally operates, of severely downsizing the whole cosmological ball of wax?
Very little in practice. Mostly there are things that you need to relocate to a plane that does exist, which could be the prime material, or just not use. There are a few spells that might need to be written out, such as plane shift. There are monsters that don't make sense without their planes, but very few. I'm pretty sure you can go down to just the material plane, and lose almost nothing. (The gods and their servants live on mount Olympus or wherever. The fey live in the untracked (and likely untrackable) wilds. Demons live deep in the earth. Elementals are just brought into existence from their element. Etc.)
For example:
3-The only known Planes, and the only ones that are accessible to mortals, would be Ethereal and Astral.
If you're really downsizing, you can collapse those into one, and you don't even need that. You can have etherealness as a state of being, rather than a separate plane, and nothing changes.
What would that do to the concept of Spelljamming?
Spelljamming doesn't need outer planes at all. The original version had bubbles of normal space enclosed in crystal spheres floating in a sea of phlogiston. My homebrew version keeps the crystal spheres, but replaces the phlogiston with the elemental chaos from which the gods built the many worlds, and spelljammers ride the currents of elemental air that connect the crystal spheres.
It's entirely functional with "stars float in an endless space, surrounded by their worlds. spelljammers can cross this void quickly enough to go from star to star" The laws of physics that we expect can be ignored. (Also, the "void" could be air.) All you need is to decide how long it takes to go from star to star, and what hazards exist in between. (IMO, the new version is disappointing because they went for "Normal solar systems with the astral plane as interstellar space" instead of embracing the weird.)
Also, if you do have spelljamming, you really don't need the outer planes; you can park everything interesting off-world.
Would that cause a breakdown in any obvious way? Class abilities, spells, monsters, etc?
What would that do to the concept of Spelljamming?
Well, for any creature specifically tied to existing cosmology you'll need to either not use them or come up with a new explanation for them. This is fairly straightforward for elementals (they could just be native to the material), fey (same), and undead (there needs to be some origin, but it doesn't have to be the shadowfell), less so for creatures that are specifically associated with souls and the afterlife (celestials and fiends).
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yea the only class features(besides spells) that rely on planes AT ALL only need astral and ethereal
What features are you thinking of? I just did a quick search and couldn't find any.
The Horizon Walker's etherealness doesn't need the plane to exist, and that is the one subclass I found that does have a problem -- their third-level feature is useless without planar portals, but the whole subclass makes little sense outside a Planescape-type game.
yea the only class features(besides spells) that rely on planes AT ALL only need astral and ethereal
What features are you thinking of? I just did a quick search and couldn't find any.
The Horizon Walker's etherealness doesn't need the plane to exist, and that is the one subclass I found that does have a problem -- their third-level feature is useless without planar portals, but the whole subclass makes little sense outside a Planescape-type game.
diviner wizard's third eye can see into the ethereal plane
and is just realized genie warlocks exist. no elemental planes, you'll have to do some thinking to find a place for a genie
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About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
diviner wizard's third eye can see into the ethereal plane
If etherealness exists as a state, that's arguably the same thing. (And even if it doesn't, the ability still has the rest of its stuff, but it is somewhat weakened, I admit.)
and is just realized genie warlocks exist. no elemental planes, you'll have to do some thinking to find a place for a genie
Eh. They just need to exist, and there's no reason they have to be tied to elemental planes, any more than the Archfey require the Feywild.
The fiendlock 'hurl through hell' ability presumes that lower planes exists, but doesn't go into any detail about what they are.
Possibly but just like how in the real world people claim to see witch craft, visions of other dimensions and miracles without demons and angels running around the same would be true for a no planar travel dnd setting. Some scholars may dispute how the trick works but people will still believe its devils. Especially since it does psychic damage.
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As I flesh out my homebrew setting, my attention has turned to the Planes.
I've been playing D&D for over 40 years, but I've just never really liked how the various Planes (Inner, Outer, Elemental, etc.) have been handled. Despite that, I've never really bothered to change much.
I did like how they were handled for Eberron, and Dark Sun mostly. At least they were different.
Anyway, what I'm wondering is this; what would be the implications, in terms of existing mechanics and assumptions about how the game world generally operates, of severely downsizing the whole cosmological ball of wax?
For example:
1-No traveling to realms typically associated with the afterlife (Heavens, Hells, Paradises, whatever). What happens after death is a mystery, not a vacation destination.
2-There are no Elemental Planes as such. If there are, they are a totally alien mystery to mortal creatures and inimical to life as we know it. This goes for Positive and Negative Energy Planes as well.
3-The only known Planes, and the only ones that are accessible to mortals, would be Ethereal and Astral.
4-Anything else that needs to exist for the story (Faerie, Shadowlands, Carceri maybe, etc.) would be realms which technically are in one of those two Planes (Astral and Ethereal)
Would that cause a breakdown in any obvious way? Class abilities, spells, monsters, etc?
What would that do to the concept of Spelljamming?
Thanks for your help and your time.
Very little in practice. Mostly there are things that you need to relocate to a plane that does exist, which could be the prime material, or just not use. There are a few spells that might need to be written out, such as plane shift. There are monsters that don't make sense without their planes, but very few. I'm pretty sure you can go down to just the material plane, and lose almost nothing. (The gods and their servants live on mount Olympus or wherever. The fey live in the untracked (and likely untrackable) wilds. Demons live deep in the earth. Elementals are just brought into existence from their element. Etc.)
If you're really downsizing, you can collapse those into one, and you don't even need that. You can have etherealness as a state of being, rather than a separate plane, and nothing changes.
Spelljamming doesn't need outer planes at all. The original version had bubbles of normal space enclosed in crystal spheres floating in a sea of phlogiston. My homebrew version keeps the crystal spheres, but replaces the phlogiston with the elemental chaos from which the gods built the many worlds, and spelljammers ride the currents of elemental air that connect the crystal spheres.
It's entirely functional with "stars float in an endless space, surrounded by their worlds. spelljammers can cross this void quickly enough to go from star to star" The laws of physics that we expect can be ignored. (Also, the "void" could be air.) All you need is to decide how long it takes to go from star to star, and what hazards exist in between. (IMO, the new version is disappointing because they went for "Normal solar systems with the astral plane as interstellar space" instead of embracing the weird.)
Also, if you do have spelljamming, you really don't need the outer planes; you can park everything interesting off-world.
The Domains of Dread imprison their inhabitants so that even death doesn't provide an escape. That doesn't change any game mechanics.
The Astral Sea connects to everything. But you've cut off access to a lot of it. So Spelljamming is limited accordingly.
Well, for any creature specifically tied to existing cosmology you'll need to either not use them or come up with a new explanation for them. This is fairly straightforward for elementals (they could just be native to the material), fey (same), and undead (there needs to be some origin, but it doesn't have to be the shadowfell), less so for creatures that are specifically associated with souls and the afterlife (celestials and fiends).
As far as Spelljamming goes... it doesn't care.
yea the only class features(besides spells) that rely on planes AT ALL only need astral and ethereal
Pronouns: Any/All
About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
What features are you thinking of? I just did a quick search and couldn't find any.
The Horizon Walker's etherealness doesn't need the plane to exist, and that is the one subclass I found that does have a problem -- their third-level feature is useless without planar portals, but the whole subclass makes little sense outside a Planescape-type game.
The fiendlock 'hurl through hell' ability presumes that lower planes exists, but doesn't go into any detail about what they are.
diviner wizard's third eye can see into the ethereal plane
and is just realized genie warlocks exist. no elemental planes, you'll have to do some thinking to find a place for a genie
Pronouns: Any/All
About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
It presumes them, but it doesn't actually need them. A metaphorical hell is sufficient for its needs.
If etherealness exists as a state, that's arguably the same thing. (And even if it doesn't, the ability still has the rest of its stuff, but it is somewhat weakened, I admit.)
Eh. They just need to exist, and there's no reason they have to be tied to elemental planes, any more than the Archfey require the Feywild.
Possibly but just like how in the real world people claim to see witch craft, visions of other dimensions and miracles without demons and angels running around the same would be true for a no planar travel dnd setting. Some scholars may dispute how the trick works but people will still believe its devils. Especially since it does psychic damage.