I have a player who is really into crafting - he is playing an elf and is focused on his Trance ability- RAW You don’t need to sleep, and magic can’t put you to sleep. You can finish a Long Rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you retain consciousness. That said a Long Rest is defined as at least 8 hours—available to any creature. During a Long Rest, you sleep for at least 6 hours and perform no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch.
I am just looking for advice on how to handle - he wants to craft for the other 4 hours, my take it is that he should only be able to do 2 hours as per the long rest rules.
Ultimately, you're the DM, and you get final say, and if you don't want the player getting extra hours a day, you can say they don't.
That said, the elf's ability is explicit that they finish a long rest in only 4 hours, as opposed to the 8 hours of anyone else. It's a minor part of the ability, but it is real.
Per RAW, your player's interpretation is right, but I agree with you. I think it's weird that elves sleeping less means they recuperate faster. There's more to a long rest than sleeping.
I am just looking for advice on how to handle - he wants to craft for the other 4 hours, my take it is that he should only be able to do 2 hours as per the long rest rules.
As mentioned, just say No to him crafting for 4 hours.
On the flip side, isn't crafting limited to X hours in a day?
In his defense, even though the trance is a loophole, I assume the crafting is while you are not out campaigning. Therefore (down) time is not relevant, so what does it matter if he can craft products sooner/quicker then everyone else? What is he trying to achieve by doing an extra 4 hours of crafting?
I feel like 2 hours vs 4 hours of crafting is not gonna make a huge difference.
Also, keep in mind that the trance is one of the things that makes Elves special. Saying no to one of your player's features can make them feel unsatisfied with their character choices and dampen the fun.
"Crafting requires tools and resources that are hard to keep mobile while on adventure. So I'd make a ruling that depends on the type of crafting:
Raw, phb says "To craft a nonmagical item, you need tools, raw materials, and time, each of which is detailed below. If you meet the requirements, you make the item, and you can use it or sell it at its normal price"
For smith tools, it says:
Smith’s Tools (20 GP)
Ability: Strength Weight: 8 lb.
Utilize: Pry open a door or container (DC 20)
Craft: Any Melee weapon (except Club, Greatclub, Quarterstaff, and Whip), Medium armor (except Hide), Heavy armor, Ball Bearings, Bucket, Caltrops, Chain, Crowbar, Firearm Bullets, Grappling Hook, Iron Pot, Iron Spikes, Sling Bullets
Which means, raw, if a pc has smith tools in their backpack, they have everything they need, tool related, to make plate armor, or any other item in the smiths tools crafting list
They only need money and time and the defined tool kit. They dont need a blacksmiths shop.
I mean, when I was a player, I was often an elf as well. I think if your player can present an idea of crafting that isn't particularly straining, just let them. Might also be worth clarifying that the rest of the group does still need their long rest too, so many don't start smithing in the middle of the night. But writing scrolls or weaving a rug, as long as their have the material at hand, go ahead.
Like mentioned you can set the rules at the table. But the other player is correct as raw. Also as an opinion, you shouldn’t punish a character trying to do something their class or abilities are centered around. You should encourage it because then the player would be happy to apply that ability. It would take away from the character class itself.
also you can craft during short rest, depending on how many the party takes as well to be able to craft more during the day while adventuring.
Thanks everyone for the assist with this. To give more detail for everyone, the player is a wizard who intends to use Deryan's Helpful Homunculi to assist in crafting and potentially wants his party to use Circle of Magic to reduce the cost of the spell. At the moment the players do not have much gold so this will not be a bridge we cross to soon. I have only 2 full casters and 3 half casters at level 3. I do not want to take away game play from all the players, so I prefer to handle this outside the game to not delay our sessions. In which I have recieved tons of messages about the players intent to craft. He has proficiency in Smith, Woodcarver and Leatherworking tools.
How I intend to handle the crafting for the player- In town he can use any area outside of where the nonelf players are taking their long rest and craft. While out adventuring - It will depend on what he attempts to craft, any type of loud blacksmithing, I will encourage him not to do, as it my interrupt the long of the other party members or attract unwanted attention.
As reference we are using XGTE and Downtime Activities for him to craft.
I am open to more feedback, and thank you everyone who has posted.
So since you using circle casting, I’m assuming that you’re using 2024 rules as part of your game? If that’s the case, have you looked into bastions? Where the players can craft, out of there? Which would handle this issue organically with bastions.
Once they hit level 5, we will cross that bridge. Right now, they are level 3 and their hometown and been burned to the ground. They have the freewill to help rebuild the town, which I would grant them a bastion once the town is rebuilt.
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I have a player who is really into crafting - he is playing an elf and is focused on his Trance ability- RAW You don’t need to sleep, and magic can’t put you to sleep. You can finish a Long Rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you retain consciousness. That said a Long Rest is defined as at least 8 hours—available to any creature. During a Long Rest, you sleep for at least 6 hours and perform no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch.
I am just looking for advice on how to handle - he wants to craft for the other 4 hours, my take it is that he should only be able to do 2 hours as per the long rest rules.
Ultimately, you're the DM, and you get final say, and if you don't want the player getting extra hours a day, you can say they don't.
That said, the elf's ability is explicit that they finish a long rest in only 4 hours, as opposed to the 8 hours of anyone else. It's a minor part of the ability, but it is real.
Per RAW, your player's interpretation is right, but I agree with you. I think it's weird that elves sleeping less means they recuperate faster. There's more to a long rest than sleeping.
As mentioned, just say No to him crafting for 4 hours.
On the flip side, isn't crafting limited to X hours in a day?
In his defense, even though the trance is a loophole, I assume the crafting is while you are not out campaigning. Therefore (down) time is not relevant, so what does it matter if he can craft products sooner/quicker then everyone else? What is he trying to achieve by doing an extra 4 hours of crafting?
I feel like 2 hours vs 4 hours of crafting is not gonna make a huge difference.
Also, keep in mind that the trance is one of the things that makes Elves special. Saying no to one of your player's features can make them feel unsatisfied with their character choices and dampen the fun.
Crafting takes (price in gold)/10 days.
If they want to craft a 150 gold item, it will take 15 days.
4 hours at night, means multuply days by 2.
30 days to craft one item.
Should not break the game and makes your player happy. Whats the downside?
Crafting requires tools and resources that are hard to keep mobile while on adventure. So I'd make a ruling that depends on the type of crafting
"Crafting requires tools and resources that are hard to keep mobile while on adventure. So I'd make a ruling that depends on the type of crafting:
Raw, phb says "To craft a nonmagical item, you need tools, raw materials, and time, each of which is detailed below. If you meet the requirements, you make the item, and you can use it or sell it at its normal price"
For smith tools, it says:
Smith’s Tools (20 GP)
Ability: Strength Weight: 8 lb.
Utilize: Pry open a door or container (DC 20)
Craft: Any Melee weapon (except Club, Greatclub, Quarterstaff, and Whip), Medium armor (except Hide), Heavy armor, Ball Bearings, Bucket, Caltrops, Chain, Crowbar, Firearm Bullets, Grappling Hook, Iron Pot, Iron Spikes, Sling Bullets
Which means, raw, if a pc has smith tools in their backpack, they have everything they need, tool related, to make plate armor, or any other item in the smiths tools crafting list
They only need money and time and the defined tool kit. They dont need a blacksmiths shop.
I mean, when I was a player, I was often an elf as well. I think if your player can present an idea of crafting that isn't particularly straining, just let them. Might also be worth clarifying that the rest of the group does still need their long rest too, so many don't start smithing in the middle of the night. But writing scrolls or weaving a rug, as long as their have the material at hand, go ahead.
Like mentioned you can set the rules at the table. But the other player is correct as raw. Also as an opinion, you shouldn’t punish a character trying to do something their class or abilities are centered around. You should encourage it because then the player would be happy to apply that ability. It would take away from the character class itself.
also you can craft during short rest, depending on how many the party takes as well to be able to craft more during the day while adventuring.
Thanks everyone for the assist with this. To give more detail for everyone, the player is a wizard who intends to use Deryan's Helpful Homunculi to assist in crafting and potentially wants his party to use Circle of Magic to reduce the cost of the spell. At the moment the players do not have much gold so this will not be a bridge we cross to soon. I have only 2 full casters and 3 half casters at level 3. I do not want to take away game play from all the players, so I prefer to handle this outside the game to not delay our sessions. In which I have recieved tons of messages about the players intent to craft. He has proficiency in Smith, Woodcarver and Leatherworking tools.
How I intend to handle the crafting for the player-
In town he can use any area outside of where the nonelf players are taking their long rest and craft.
While out adventuring - It will depend on what he attempts to craft, any type of loud blacksmithing, I will encourage him not to do, as it my interrupt the long of the other party members or attract unwanted attention.
As reference we are using XGTE and Downtime Activities for him to craft.
I am open to more feedback, and thank you everyone who has posted.
So since you using circle casting, I’m assuming that you’re using 2024 rules as part of your game? If that’s the case, have you looked into bastions? Where the players can craft, out of there? Which would handle this issue organically with bastions.
Once they hit level 5, we will cross that bridge. Right now, they are level 3 and their hometown and been burned to the ground. They have the freewill to help rebuild the town, which I would grant them a bastion once the town is rebuilt.