Only if they might need to fight/be fought in the future I.e. Gary the wizard wants to help the party but they are murder hobos so they reliably kill all the npcs I give them so good to have a stat block
No, but that's because in most of my worlds the average person has no magical abilities. That means that they've got no real special skills that rise to the level of a D&D adventurer.
The reason for this is two-fold. Firstly it helps with the whole power fantasy thing. It makes the player characters actually special and unique. They've got abilities that maybe 0.5% of the population have. That's why they are in demand. That's why the local town can't just send in the city guard to go and clear out the nearby caves. The second reason is because it prevents murder hobos a little. When every NPC is an unarmed strike away from death it really makes the party reconsider. In a recent campaign there was a showdown with an antagonist character inside a council chamber. All 30 members of the council were killed outright with a single spell being cast. The party felt the weight of that and it made for a difficult but interesting choice. Do the party attack now and take on the antagonist, or do they prefer not to have 30 (potentially) innocent lives on their hands?
The only NPCs then that I give stat blocks other than 'Commoner' to are the really special enemy or allies. I'll never create a stat block akin to a player character though. It just doesn't scale as well and is too restricting.
If they are murder hobos I would think occasionally because........morals.
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Go to work. Send your kids to school. Follow fashion. Act normal. Walk on the pavement. Watch TV. Save for old age. Obey the law. Now repeat after me. "YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS"
I think that giving your NPCs, be they monsters or there for social interaction, is an untapped resource that makes it really simple to make your own homebrew tats really easily. A lot of the stats in the MME, which is hyper popular homebrew on DM's Guild, is really just giving the monsters some class levels to make them feel unique. It's also a way to test your homebrew subclasses by giving them to monsters and seeing how well they work.
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He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones. Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
"You see a gigantic, monstrous praying mantis burst from out of the ground. It sprays a stream of acid from it's mouth at one soldier, dissolving him instantly, then it turns and chomps another soldier in half with it's- "
I do for one simple reason. My players have become very suspicious of everyone they encounter, even though the majority of NPC's are harmless. So they Try and pick pocket, bully and sometimes straight out attack the NPC's. It is every NPC I introduce that this happens. Sure I could use Stat blocks from enemies, but then I would not get the fun and pleasure of building characters as a DM. Sometimes I do scale back the NPC's I build and will try them in a one shot or something, but I also have an obligation to not let all the people in the world that they are protecting from being murdered.
I think that it is mainly my paranoid party that puts me in that position
I do for one simple reason. My players have become very suspicious of everyone they encounter, even though the majority of NPC's are harmless. So they Try and pick pocket, bully and sometimes straight out attack the NPC's. It is every NPC I introduce that this happens. Sure I could use Stat blocks from enemies, but then I would not get the fun and pleasure of building characters as a DM. Sometimes I do scale back the NPC's I build and will try them in a one shot or something, but I also have an obligation to not let all the people in the world that they are protecting from being murdered.
I think that it is mainly my paranoid party that puts me in that position
This diverts from the original topic somewhat, but have you never shocked your players with a game over epilogue. It does tend to shock a table of murder-hobos. If they're attacking or challenging every NPC, then have one of them gain the ire of the public around the party. They lose any chance or status as 'heroes' and immediately become villains - campaign over. I've done this once or twice and it does have lasting impact. You can't save the world as heroes if you're conducting yourself as a villain. Once the party know that there are limits and in-world consequences for their actions they at least try a little harder not to be killing every NPC they meet.
Similarly, a session zero conversation about how murder-hobos make certain types of gameplay difficult if not impossible. You aren't experiencing deep roleplay if you're killing everyone. So, if they want at least the option for roleplay they need to consider more than just 'weapons out, fight'. Otherwise, NPCs are going to run away and they're going to get no help anywhere.
In-world consequences really do hammer home how bad the choices the characters make are sometimes. They can often divert a group of murder-hobos away from murder. The DM just has to follow through a little.
The Issue came up with my second major NPC who was actually one of the BBEG's in disguise and now anyone that is there to assist in campaign or anything like that gets a paranoid party. It was just some fun That I had that lead to real world consequences. LMAO
I used to, but not so much any more. I have a bad habit of over-preparing. So I would build a full detailed character sheet and backstory for nearly every npc. And 98% of that info never gor used in game play. So now I only prep the stats that are most likely to be needed in the session. Even if the npc is an actual character class, I don't need to know their full spell book, just the spells that are likely to be cast that session.
But I still provide a sentence or three about backstory, just to determine their motivation in the scene, and to satisfy my own incessant bad habits.
I make NPCs with class levels mostly only if they're going to fight alongside the PCs.
Any antagonist starts from a monster stat block, though I have sometimes built an NPC as a character class, then converted their abilities over to the monster I'm customizing.
I made a similar post not long ago, so I’m a little surprised with the answers. I resonated with martintheactor because for my oneshot one of the three main NPC brothers are hiring them to take care of the monster, and they wouldn’t need to do so if they were all capable of battle.
Having said that, I like how giving them backgrounds of entertainer, guide and guard as well as even some of the items and amount of money they might have added to their story. They’re nearly broke, but they have special silver +1 combo weapons I made that might entice the party if they play their cards a certain way.
Regular monsters are so boring whenever i theory craft a new character i usually dump it in one of my games for a few level test run as an antagonist its super fun.
I made a similar post not long ago, so I’m a little surprised with the answers.
Well, your question pretty much corresponded to an answer of "Frequently" or more; most of my background NPCs don't have writeups at all (if for some reason my PCs get into a fight with them I'll just give them abilities that feel appropriate), it's mostly for specialized high threat humanoid-ish enemies (for example, I had a party of adventurers who got turned into vampire spawn as an adversary group, and they retained their PC levels).
NPC is just another word for monster that is not an obvious enemy/opponent (or, monster is another word for NPC that is meant to be an enemy/opponent). Either way, save yourself some time and just create the stats you need. Monster stat blocks work well.
That said, in my game, conceits like "character class" and "level" have no meaning within the game-world. They are tools to help the players make meaningful choices as their characters interact with the game-world. Your game may vary. Have fun! Be awesome!
I absolutely love using PC classes for NPCS. It's not every NPC in my campaign setting that has class levels as that would diminish the cool factor of being a hero but many of the persons who hold positions of high esteem tend to be retired or formerly capable adventurers. In fact, a great deal of my NPC's are former player’s characters that have retired to a quieter life and I love being able to add that element to my constantly evolving campaign setting.
I personally have had so many players be blown away to find out that the town they took over way back when with a character 2 campaigns ago has maybe sire children or continued to be the Lord of that town and has improved the lives for everyone around and I often grant that player the ability to role play the NPC at the table if they wish. It's a fun little element that is often enjoyed.
That being said more than 87% of the NPC's in my campaign setting use the NPC classes. Artisans laborers essentially the workforce and all of the commoners use the NPC classes. Even the town guards and such tends to be warriors and whatnot but without having NPC's with character class levels there would be no force able to regulate and out of control PC.
Having the players be the only powerful persons in the world with thousands of people doesn't seem realistic to me and I prefer a realistic campaign setting.
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A DM who loves the game. I am a 3.5e dungeon master of 25+ years experience. It has been my passion since I discovered the starter box set as a kid. My table is always fair and fun, we like to laugh and leave the table excited for the next session.
Avid hiker and explorer IRL. Getting outside is the best unplug. I hope to hear from anyone curious about 3.5 edition and would love t include you in my next campaign.
Yes, despite most people not having access to magic in my homebrew world, lot of commoner know how to fight for survival purpose (it's in a dark fantasy medieval setting).
Also, my players are completely stupid and crazy. They will kill anyone, so I have stats for almost every NPC to mainly ensure the survival of the story.
Simple question. Yes, I know that it's not recommended, but you're a DM, they're guidelines not rules.
Only if they might need to fight/be fought in the future I.e. Gary the wizard wants to help the party but they are murder hobos so they reliably kill all the npcs I give them so good to have a stat block
and NO I don’t need advice on help with my party
No, but that's because in most of my worlds the average person has no magical abilities. That means that they've got no real special skills that rise to the level of a D&D adventurer.
The reason for this is two-fold. Firstly it helps with the whole power fantasy thing. It makes the player characters actually special and unique. They've got abilities that maybe 0.5% of the population have. That's why they are in demand. That's why the local town can't just send in the city guard to go and clear out the nearby caves. The second reason is because it prevents murder hobos a little. When every NPC is an unarmed strike away from death it really makes the party reconsider. In a recent campaign there was a showdown with an antagonist character inside a council chamber. All 30 members of the council were killed outright with a single spell being cast. The party felt the weight of that and it made for a difficult but interesting choice. Do the party attack now and take on the antagonist, or do they prefer not to have 30 (potentially) innocent lives on their hands?
The only NPCs then that I give stat blocks other than 'Commoner' to are the really special enemy or allies. I'll never create a stat block akin to a player character though. It just doesn't scale as well and is too restricting.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
If they are murder hobos I would think occasionally because........morals.
Go to work. Send your kids to school. Follow fashion. Act normal. Walk on the pavement. Watch TV. Save for old age. Obey the law. Now repeat after me. "YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS"
I think that giving your NPCs, be they monsters or there for social interaction, is an untapped resource that makes it really simple to make your own homebrew tats really easily. A lot of the stats in the MME, which is hyper popular homebrew on DM's Guild, is really just giving the monsters some class levels to make them feel unique. It's also a way to test your homebrew subclasses by giving them to monsters and seeing how well they work.
He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones. Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
"You see a gigantic, monstrous praying mantis burst from out of the ground. It sprays a stream of acid from it's mouth at one soldier, dissolving him instantly, then it turns and chomps another soldier in half with it's- "
"When are we gonna take a snack break?"
I do for one simple reason. My players have become very suspicious of everyone they encounter, even though the majority of NPC's are harmless. So they Try and pick pocket, bully and sometimes straight out attack the NPC's. It is every NPC I introduce that this happens. Sure I could use Stat blocks from enemies, but then I would not get the fun and pleasure of building characters as a DM. Sometimes I do scale back the NPC's I build and will try them in a one shot or something, but I also have an obligation to not let all the people in the world that they are protecting from being murdered.
I think that it is mainly my paranoid party that puts me in that position
This diverts from the original topic somewhat, but have you never shocked your players with a game over epilogue. It does tend to shock a table of murder-hobos. If they're attacking or challenging every NPC, then have one of them gain the ire of the public around the party. They lose any chance or status as 'heroes' and immediately become villains - campaign over. I've done this once or twice and it does have lasting impact. You can't save the world as heroes if you're conducting yourself as a villain. Once the party know that there are limits and in-world consequences for their actions they at least try a little harder not to be killing every NPC they meet.
Similarly, a session zero conversation about how murder-hobos make certain types of gameplay difficult if not impossible. You aren't experiencing deep roleplay if you're killing everyone. So, if they want at least the option for roleplay they need to consider more than just 'weapons out, fight'. Otherwise, NPCs are going to run away and they're going to get no help anywhere.
In-world consequences really do hammer home how bad the choices the characters make are sometimes. They can often divert a group of murder-hobos away from murder. The DM just has to follow through a little.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
The Issue came up with my second major NPC who was actually one of the BBEG's in disguise and now anyone that is there to assist in campaign or anything like that gets a paranoid party. It was just some fun That I had that lead to real world consequences. LMAO
I avoid using leveled NPC against party but rarely i may make a DMPC when the party is below 3.
I used to, but not so much any more. I have a bad habit of over-preparing. So I would build a full detailed character sheet and backstory for nearly every npc. And 98% of that info never gor used in game play. So now I only prep the stats that are most likely to be needed in the session. Even if the npc is an actual character class, I don't need to know their full spell book, just the spells that are likely to be cast that session.
But I still provide a sentence or three about backstory, just to determine their motivation in the scene, and to satisfy my own incessant bad habits.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
I make NPCs with class levels mostly only if they're going to fight alongside the PCs.
Any antagonist starts from a monster stat block, though I have sometimes built an NPC as a character class, then converted their abilities over to the monster I'm customizing.
I made a similar post not long ago, so I’m a little surprised with the answers. I resonated with martintheactor because for my oneshot one of the three main NPC brothers are hiring them to take care of the monster, and they wouldn’t need to do so if they were all capable of battle.
Having said that, I like how giving them backgrounds of entertainer, guide and guard as well as even some of the items and amount of money they might have added to their story. They’re nearly broke, but they have special silver +1 combo weapons I made that might entice the party if they play their cards a certain way.
Regular monsters are so boring whenever i theory craft a new character i usually dump it in one of my games for a few level test run as an antagonist its super fun.
Well, your question pretty much corresponded to an answer of "Frequently" or more; most of my background NPCs don't have writeups at all (if for some reason my PCs get into a fight with them I'll just give them abilities that feel appropriate), it's mostly for specialized high threat humanoid-ish enemies (for example, I had a party of adventurers who got turned into vampire spawn as an adversary group, and they retained their PC levels).
I never really bother with character levels, if I want a cool ability, I stitch it to the character. Simple enough and I can get wacky with it.
NPC is just another word for monster that is not an obvious enemy/opponent (or, monster is another word for NPC that is meant to be an enemy/opponent). Either way, save yourself some time and just create the stats you need. Monster stat blocks work well.
That said, in my game, conceits like "character class" and "level" have no meaning within the game-world. They are tools to help the players make meaningful choices as their characters interact with the game-world. Your game may vary. Have fun! Be awesome!
Do people actually interpret NPC that way? I consider enemies NPCs as well, as long as they have personalities and goals.
I absolutely love using PC classes for NPCS. It's not every NPC in my campaign setting that has class levels as that would diminish the cool factor of being a hero but many of the persons who hold positions of high esteem tend to be retired or formerly capable adventurers. In fact, a great deal of my NPC's are former player’s characters that have retired to a quieter life and I love being able to add that element to my constantly evolving campaign setting.
I personally have had so many players be blown away to find out that the town they took over way back when with a character 2 campaigns ago has maybe sire children or continued to be the Lord of that town and has improved the lives for everyone around and I often grant that player the ability to role play the NPC at the table if they wish. It's a fun little element that is often enjoyed.
That being said more than 87% of the NPC's in my campaign setting use the NPC classes. Artisans laborers essentially the workforce and all of the commoners use the NPC classes. Even the town guards and such tends to be warriors and whatnot but without having NPC's with character class levels there would be no force able to regulate and out of control PC.
Having the players be the only powerful persons in the world with thousands of people doesn't seem realistic to me and I prefer a realistic campaign setting.
A DM who loves the game. I am a 3.5e dungeon master of 25+ years experience. It has been my passion since I discovered the starter box set as a kid. My table is always fair and fun, we like to laugh and leave the table excited for the next session.
Avid hiker and explorer IRL. Getting outside is the best unplug. I hope to hear from anyone curious about 3.5 edition and would love t include you in my next campaign.
Yes, despite most people not having access to magic in my homebrew world, lot of commoner know how to fight for survival purpose (it's in a dark fantasy medieval setting).
Also, my players are completely stupid and crazy. They will kill anyone, so I have stats for almost every NPC to mainly ensure the survival of the story.
My Players are currently plotting against Puck who is in disguise and helping them. I know how you feel