Sorry if this type of thing has been asked before, but I have come across something when looking at the module that I think is fair...but is a bit of a sore point for disagreements. In the Curse of Strahd module, specifically the Death House, there are a number of things that say, "if a player examines this more closely, a Perception check of 14 shows "blah"" There is also a section that says, "Players with a passive perception of 12 or higher are not surprised by this"
This leads me to believe that when exploring the rooms, the points that state a perception check mean that even with a high passive perception, players need to state what they are looking for or miss it. I feel like the way it explains makes sense, but I also know some that some people believe a passive perceptions of say 16, would catch every single detail that the adventure said that players needed to specifically examine?
Having a single character with a really high Passive Perception or Investigation can be ticklish. When you do Session Zero (you DID do a Session Zero, right?) and they reveal that their intent is to build Sherlock Holmes then you need to establish what PP and PI are good for and what they don't cover. You should make this very clear regardless of how you decide to use it so that there is no misunderstanding with the player.
For my own sake, I like to use a distance rule because I think of Passives as the things you catch out of the corner of your eye when NOT looking for them. Is the party being followed? PP is NOT going to detect the guy spying from the window from blocks away unless you want it to (roll a die and if the guy gets low, he moved the curtain. The PC doesn't see the GUY, they see the CURTAIN and can draw what conclusions they want). Passive Investigation is for stuff within 10' or closer IMHO because when you think about it, you don't Investigate from twenty feet away. Investigation means peering at things closely.
I am glad to see that I am not the only one that feels this way. I've seen rulings that say that a "sherlock" type character sees everything and should never need to roll, but it is something I have always thought to be overpowered (even if rare) and a bit of a dampener on DMing. We did not do a session zero as we have played multiple campaigns together, so the party isn't expecting anything.
This is more my concerns as it's my first official campaign I am running, and want to make sure I am understanding what was generally intended with certain things in the book itself.
I can understand some frustration from behind the screens about a character that when entering a room sees all and knows all. But I would add that if a character really wants to build this type of character which will let the players discover more of the worlds secrets, its counter intuitive to want to counter that. Some things can not be detected by perception, some really hilarious things. Anything with false appearance for example. 'Hey that armour its standing up by itself, look there isn't any support under the legs - Ignore it laddie its just a suit of armour' Illusions unless they are wobbly completely counter perception based attempts to determine the problem. Investigation is needed to discover the deception or clumsy interaction.
It has to be the individual DM's call at the table, but the books state passive checks are for when an activity has been going on for a period of time. They also state that advantage on a passive or disadvantage alters the modifier by 5. Cloudseeker42 probably wont like this but that means, at night moving at regular speed whilst suffering from the runs (or poisoned) would only lower the check once and all be countered by one advantage. Seems crazy? yes a little, but its a fantasy world and if the party having a scout who can actually scout is a problem? Ask yourself why it is.
Read something recently that really gave me a good concept of how I understand it and would play it. Passive Perception is essentially what you are going to describe to a player upon entering a room. It has mirrors, a chest, a piano that has a few keys that are a bit more worn out looking then the rest. There is a spot on the floor in the room that seems cleaner then the rest or whatnot. If they decided to look into those things more, then it becomes either and active perception check for, or investigation depending on what they are doing.
Passive perception is a, "As you walk down the hall, you see there are scraps along the walls around head level" Passive perception is the information you provide the players to prompt them to actually say, "I look at that more closely" or whatnot.
I don't know if this helps anyone else...maybe I am explaining it poorly, but I feel like I have a slightly better thought of it.
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Hello!
Sorry if this type of thing has been asked before, but I have come across something when looking at the module that I think is fair...but is a bit of a sore point for disagreements. In the Curse of Strahd module, specifically the Death House, there are a number of things that say, "if a player examines this more closely, a Perception check of 14 shows "blah"" There is also a section that says, "Players with a passive perception of 12 or higher are not surprised by this"
This leads me to believe that when exploring the rooms, the points that state a perception check mean that even with a high passive perception, players need to state what they are looking for or miss it. I feel like the way it explains makes sense, but I also know some that some people believe a passive perceptions of say 16, would catch every single detail that the adventure said that players needed to specifically examine?
Thoughts? Questions? Concerns?
Having a single character with a really high Passive Perception or Investigation can be ticklish. When you do Session Zero (you DID do a Session Zero, right?) and they reveal that their intent is to build Sherlock Holmes then you need to establish what PP and PI are good for and what they don't cover. You should make this very clear regardless of how you decide to use it so that there is no misunderstanding with the player.
For my own sake, I like to use a distance rule because I think of Passives as the things you catch out of the corner of your eye when NOT looking for them. Is the party being followed? PP is NOT going to detect the guy spying from the window from blocks away unless you want it to (roll a die and if the guy gets low, he moved the curtain. The PC doesn't see the GUY, they see the CURTAIN and can draw what conclusions they want). Passive Investigation is for stuff within 10' or closer IMHO because when you think about it, you don't Investigate from twenty feet away. Investigation means peering at things closely.
I am glad to see that I am not the only one that feels this way. I've seen rulings that say that a "sherlock" type character sees everything and should never need to roll, but it is something I have always thought to be overpowered (even if rare) and a bit of a dampener on DMing. We did not do a session zero as we have played multiple campaigns together, so the party isn't expecting anything.
This is more my concerns as it's my first official campaign I am running, and want to make sure I am understanding what was generally intended with certain things in the book itself.
I very much appreciate the replies.
I can understand some frustration from behind the screens about a character that when entering a room sees all and knows all. But I would add that if a character really wants to build this type of character which will let the players discover more of the worlds secrets, its counter intuitive to want to counter that. Some things can not be detected by perception, some really hilarious things. Anything with false appearance for example. 'Hey that armour its standing up by itself, look there isn't any support under the legs - Ignore it laddie its just a suit of armour' Illusions unless they are wobbly completely counter perception based attempts to determine the problem. Investigation is needed to discover the deception or clumsy interaction.
It has to be the individual DM's call at the table, but the books state passive checks are for when an activity has been going on for a period of time. They also state that advantage on a passive or disadvantage alters the modifier by 5. Cloudseeker42 probably wont like this but that means, at night moving at regular speed whilst suffering from the runs (or poisoned) would only lower the check once and all be countered by one advantage. Seems crazy? yes a little, but its a fantasy world and if the party having a scout who can actually scout is a problem? Ask yourself why it is.
Read something recently that really gave me a good concept of how I understand it and would play it. Passive Perception is essentially what you are going to describe to a player upon entering a room. It has mirrors, a chest, a piano that has a few keys that are a bit more worn out looking then the rest. There is a spot on the floor in the room that seems cleaner then the rest or whatnot. If they decided to look into those things more, then it becomes either and active perception check for, or investigation depending on what they are doing.
Passive perception is a, "As you walk down the hall, you see there are scraps along the walls around head level" Passive perception is the information you provide the players to prompt them to actually say, "I look at that more closely" or whatnot.
I don't know if this helps anyone else...maybe I am explaining it poorly, but I feel like I have a slightly better thought of it.