When do you call for Charisma saving throws other than spells saves?
I feel like Insight skill checks often times take the place of a Charisma Saving Throw.
For example, NPC tells a lie, and a player asks "do I believe him?" Myself and other DMs I've seen often call for an Insight check, but shouldn't that actually be a saving throw?
Saving throws are described as avoiding an adverse effect (believing a lie), while a Skill is trying to accomplish coming (telling the lie).
--- From the Saving Throws section in the PHB--- "A saving throw is an instant response to a harmful effect and is almost never done by choice. A save makes the most sense when something bad happens to a character and the character has a chance to avoid that effect. An ability check is something a character actively attempts to accomplish, whereas a saving throw is a split-second response to the activity of someone or something else."
A charisma save, outside of spell effects, might be if the character is pretending to be a spy and suddenly finds out his family is in danger but needs to act cool and detached, and not show any emotion. It's unlike a deception check because deception would have some thought behind it is not a knee jerk reaction.
Just though maybe to keep your cool while being tortured would be a charisma save, to see if you mentaly can kewp from cracking, and a con save to see if your body cracks.
I just notice that the Charisma save goes pretty unused, and I wasn't sure if that was a misunderstanding on my part. Some of you have some good points. I get there are no clear cut lines, but this is helpful!
Hmm... a lot of times, Charisma saves as occurred to spells seem to revolve a dedicated attempt to control a target, be it via sapping their will via Bane, or ripping away their attachment to the material plane via Banishment. They also have a tendency to apply to spells that affect good and evil. So perhaps things of a similar nature, such as beings attempting to draw players elsewhere via planar or dimensional tethering, or resisting ground that might be considered hallowed/defiled against their presence, would require Charisma saves outside of spellcasting.
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Working on a supplement for the adventure-minded. A project including (and crediting) homebrew subclasses from the community, a world of my own design, premade characters, magic items, and even a prologue adventure to start things off!
Past and Current Characters: Morgann 'Duskspear' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Paladin/Fighter/Warlock; Ephemeral 'Skye' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Artificer; Zaldrick Lawscrip of Orzhov, Hobgoblin Wizard; Eremys Spydrun, Shadar'kai Monk; Cuchulainn, Wood Elf Blood Hunter.
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When do you call for Charisma saving throws other than spells saves?
I feel like Insight skill checks often times take the place of a Charisma Saving Throw.
For example, NPC tells a lie, and a player asks "do I believe him?" Myself and other DMs I've seen often call for an Insight check, but shouldn't that actually be a saving throw?
Saving throws are described as avoiding an adverse effect (believing a lie), while a Skill is trying to accomplish coming (telling the lie).
--- From the Saving Throws section in the PHB---
"A saving throw is an instant response to a harmful effect and is almost never done by choice. A save makes the most sense when something bad happens to a character and the character has a chance to avoid that effect. An ability check is something a character actively attempts to accomplish, whereas a saving throw is a split-second response to the activity of someone or something else."
Being lied to isn't inherently bad. What the player does with the false intel is. That would be my logic of why to apply insight.
Consider the saves you typically make:
Dex save for something you need reflexes to dodge
Wis save where you need to discern something out of the ordinary
Charisma might be needed where you need to retain composure, presence, cool.
A charisma save, outside of spell effects, might be if the character is pretending to be a spy and suddenly finds out his family is in danger but needs to act cool and detached, and not show any emotion. It's unlike a deception check because deception would have some thought behind it is not a knee jerk reaction.
Just though maybe to keep your cool while being tortured would be a charisma save, to see if you mentaly can kewp from cracking, and a con save to see if your body cracks.
Prolonged abusive deception, gaslighting, could provoke a Charisma saving throw to not question one's own sanity.
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Thanks all!
I just notice that the Charisma save goes pretty unused, and I wasn't sure if that was a misunderstanding on my part. Some of you have some good points. I get there are no clear cut lines, but this is helpful!
Hmm... a lot of times, Charisma saves as occurred to spells seem to revolve a dedicated attempt to control a target, be it via sapping their will via Bane, or ripping away their attachment to the material plane via Banishment. They also have a tendency to apply to spells that affect good and evil. So perhaps things of a similar nature, such as beings attempting to draw players elsewhere via planar or dimensional tethering, or resisting ground that might be considered hallowed/defiled against their presence, would require Charisma saves outside of spellcasting.
Working on a supplement for the adventure-minded. A project including (and crediting) homebrew subclasses from the community, a world of my own design, premade characters, magic items, and even a prologue adventure to start things off!
Past and Current Characters: Morgann 'Duskspear' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Paladin/Fighter/Warlock; Ephemeral 'Skye' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Artificer; Zaldrick Lawscrip of Orzhov, Hobgoblin Wizard; Eremys Spydrun, Shadar'kai Monk; Cuchulainn, Wood Elf Blood Hunter.