I am currently running a campaign in a world where the Raven Queen and Shadowfell are going to play a rather significant role. To help them explore, I'm adding an NPC that is tied to the Raven Queen to help them explore. However in our last session they just added the character to their party, so I want to create an actual build for them so they function like another character. However, I'm having trouble deciding if the path I wants for them fits better as a Warlock or Cleric. I plan to homebrew the setup in either setup but I'm interested to hear any feedback people have. This is the character details I have so far (The world has a custom history so it doesn't all follow standard rules):
- The character is a 24 year old female of noble birth (a wealthy trading family) and a magical bloodline. She is a Kalashtar, but because magic was corrupted in the world, she can't properly communicate or understand it's presence and it's given her episodes of mental trauma and insanity (she thinks the presence she feels is a figment of her own insanity). The girl is highly driven by her own intellect and she has spent much of her life searching for answers to her condition in religion.
- The Raven Queen has taken interest in her because of her families bloodline. When magic was corrupted almost all the Gods were locked out of the world because their planes could not travel to the prime material plane. However because the Shadowfell is a mirror of the material plane, it is far more connected.
Originally I was thinking Warlock because I thought it would make sense for her to accept power in exchange for knowledge, and this would essentially maker her (eventually) the Raven Queen's servant in the material plane. However I did realize that a being a Cleric could make her a better supporting character and make her relationship more of a voluntary one. However it is important to mention that she doesn't really have her own magic, so any magical abilities she has would be those granted by the Raven Queen (another reason I was thinking Warlock). I also thought initially that the Domain of death would make sense, but that has a lot of influence of necromancy and I think because of the Raven Queen she would be especially anti undead. Maybe a custom domain? Any thoughts?
My personal interpretation of the metaphysical mechanics governing Clerics vs. Warlocks, is that it depends on the God or Patron, not the particular relationship, Cleric, or Warlock.
Beings that are so powerful as to be actually worshiped, and who "ascend" are Gods, have Clerics. Their personal power is channeled through their representatives ( Clerics ).
Beings that are powerful enough to share power, but are not openly worshiped, or have not ascended, can have Warlocks. They alter their Warlocks, giving them inherent abilities, rather than use them as a conduit for personal power. This is why Warlocks who break their Pacts don't suddenly lose all their abilities.
The way I see it, a powerful being either has one, or the other, but doesn't employ both.
That's completely only how I see it; you may see it a different way, in which case it works differently in your game :)
If this was my game, I'd say that the Raven Queen is a Deity of Death, who employs Clerics, so the Character would be Cleric of some Death ( or Grave ) domain.
But it's totally up to you how you want the metaphysics of your world to work.
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That's a good point thanks. I was originally pursuing the warlock class because of the Raven Queen Warlock Class in one of the 4e rulebooks. I think you're right that a Cleric might actually make more sense, but the way I'm actually thinking about implementing it is as a gift of power given to the girl. I'll have to think on that. Looking at it I also really like the Grave Domain, I didn't know about that one but it seems pretty well suited. However I do feel like there is a difference in how those would be applied, since this character is in no way an original follower of the Raven Queen. This also means there would be no reason that her ideologies have to line up.
A "gift of power" could be an artifact, rather than investing the power directly into this girl. As WoobyDoobyDoo pointed out, the Raven Queen is already known for creating & distributing items of power.
The potential ideological differences are potentially an issue. How exact and demanding do you feel Gods are in your world? Where would this character and the Raven Queen differ?
I'm a huge fan of the metaphysics of Neil Gaiman's American Gods ( short version, Gods are created & gain power from being worshipped/venerated/remembered, rather than beings who exist objectively in their own right ), so to me so long as the Raven Queen is receiving veneration & service from this character, she would be content to keep her in her service. Plus, the Raven Queen can slowly bend the ideology of this character to her own - or at least try.
If you are familiar with Jim Butcher's Dresden Files series:
Harry's eventual reluctant assumption of the role of the Winter Knight, and defiant execution of his role, does not mean the he and Mab are 100% in agreement. Mab is trying to slowly warp him, and - for now - is content that he 'gets the job done' no matter what his ideological and personal differences he has with her.
So, if it were my world the ideological differences wouldn't matter - at least not at first.
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Right, effectively the gods are worshiped and respected, but they don't physically interact with mortals because they can't access the plane, so miracles and other wonders like that haven't been seen for ages. This character essentially has no real knowledge or reason to worship the Raven Queen. She essentially was chosen by the queen with no knowledge on her part. I do really like the idea of having power imbued through an artifact especially because the Raven Queen is known for that. I think I'm starting to lean towards Warlock, even though Grave Cleric makes perfect sense from the Raven Queen Ideology standpoint, simply because I don't think she would ever worship the Raven Queen in a manner that would make her a worthy Cleric.
If all the Character is to the Raven Queen is a pawn/agent, then Paladin would work as well, no?
Or - if you have seen any of Theros - she starting to sound more and more like a Theros style Hero: the God chose you, you have abilities. Deal with it.
I'm not saying don't do Warlock :) I'm just saying there are other options.
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Interesting. I'll look into that. I originally discounted Paladin because the character is in no way a warrior. I'll look into that though, thanks. I think what I'll end up doing is a mixed class, starting with the Hexblade Warlock, and then developing into either a Paladin or Cleric.
I am currently running a campaign in a world where the Raven Queen and Shadowfell are going to play a rather significant role. To help them explore, I'm adding an NPC that is tied to the Raven Queen to help them explore. However in our last session they just added the character to their party, so I want to create an actual build for them so they function like another character. However, I'm having trouble deciding if the path I wants for them fits better as a Warlock or Cleric. I plan to homebrew the setup in either setup but I'm interested to hear any feedback people have. This is the character details I have so far (The world has a custom history so it doesn't all follow standard rules):
- The character is a 24 year old female of noble birth (a wealthy trading family) and a magical bloodline. She is a Kalashtar, but because magic was corrupted in the world, she can't properly communicate or understand it's presence and it's given her episodes of mental trauma and insanity (she thinks the presence she feels is a figment of her own insanity). The girl is highly driven by her own intellect and she has spent much of her life searching for answers to her condition in religion.
- The Raven Queen has taken interest in her because of her families bloodline. When magic was corrupted almost all the Gods were locked out of the world because their planes could not travel to the prime material plane. However because the Shadowfell is a mirror of the material plane, it is far more connected.
Originally I was thinking Warlock because I thought it would make sense for her to accept power in exchange for knowledge, and this would essentially maker her (eventually) the Raven Queen's servant in the material plane. However I did realize that a being a Cleric could make her a better supporting character and make her relationship more of a voluntary one. However it is important to mention that she doesn't really have her own magic, so any magical abilities she has would be those granted by the Raven Queen (another reason I was thinking Warlock). I also thought initially that the Domain of death would make sense, but that has a lot of influence of necromancy and I think because of the Raven Queen she would be especially anti undead. Maybe a custom domain? Any thoughts?
My personal interpretation of the metaphysical mechanics governing Clerics vs. Warlocks, is that it depends on the God or Patron, not the particular relationship, Cleric, or Warlock.
Beings that are so powerful as to be actually worshiped, and who "ascend" are Gods, have Clerics. Their personal power is channeled through their representatives ( Clerics ).
Beings that are powerful enough to share power, but are not openly worshiped, or have not ascended, can have Warlocks. They alter their Warlocks, giving them inherent abilities, rather than use them as a conduit for personal power. This is why Warlocks who break their Pacts don't suddenly lose all their abilities.
The way I see it, a powerful being either has one, or the other, but doesn't employ both.
That's completely only how I see it; you may see it a different way, in which case it works differently in your game :)
If this was my game, I'd say that the Raven Queen is a Deity of Death, who employs Clerics, so the Character would be Cleric of some Death ( or Grave ) domain.
But it's totally up to you how you want the metaphysics of your world to work.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
You could possibly also go with hexblade, as many hexblade weapons were known to have been forged by the Raven Queen.
"Ignorance is bliss, and you look absolutely miserable."
You might do a Grave cleric. She does canonically have clerics in the Nentir Vale setting.
That's a good point thanks. I was originally pursuing the warlock class because of the Raven Queen Warlock Class in one of the 4e rulebooks. I think you're right that a Cleric might actually make more sense, but the way I'm actually thinking about implementing it is as a gift of power given to the girl. I'll have to think on that. Looking at it I also really like the Grave Domain, I didn't know about that one but it seems pretty well suited. However I do feel like there is a difference in how those would be applied, since this character is in no way an original follower of the Raven Queen. This also means there would be no reason that her ideologies have to line up.
Grave cleric would make a lot of sense, as the Raven Queen is vehemently opposed to undeath.
"Ignorance is bliss, and you look absolutely miserable."
A "gift of power" could be an artifact, rather than investing the power directly into this girl. As WoobyDoobyDoo pointed out, the Raven Queen is already known for creating & distributing items of power.
The potential ideological differences are potentially an issue. How exact and demanding do you feel Gods are in your world? Where would this character and the Raven Queen differ?
I'm a huge fan of the metaphysics of Neil Gaiman's American Gods ( short version, Gods are created & gain power from being worshipped/venerated/remembered, rather than beings who exist objectively in their own right ), so to me so long as the Raven Queen is receiving veneration & service from this character, she would be content to keep her in her service. Plus, the Raven Queen can slowly bend the ideology of this character to her own - or at least try.
If you are familiar with Jim Butcher's Dresden Files series:
Harry's eventual reluctant assumption of the role of the Winter Knight, and defiant execution of his role, does not mean the he and Mab are 100% in agreement. Mab is trying to slowly warp him, and - for now - is content that he 'gets the job done' no matter what his ideological and personal differences he has with her.
So, if it were my world the ideological differences wouldn't matter - at least not at first.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Right, effectively the gods are worshiped and respected, but they don't physically interact with mortals because they can't access the plane, so miracles and other wonders like that haven't been seen for ages. This character essentially has no real knowledge or reason to worship the Raven Queen. She essentially was chosen by the queen with no knowledge on her part. I do really like the idea of having power imbued through an artifact especially because the Raven Queen is known for that. I think I'm starting to lean towards Warlock, even though Grave Cleric makes perfect sense from the Raven Queen Ideology standpoint, simply because I don't think she would ever worship the Raven Queen in a manner that would make her a worthy Cleric.
If all the Character is to the Raven Queen is a pawn/agent, then Paladin would work as well, no?
Or - if you have seen any of Theros - she starting to sound more and more like a Theros style Hero: the God chose you, you have abilities. Deal with it.
I'm not saying don't do Warlock :) I'm just saying there are other options.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Interesting. I'll look into that. I originally discounted Paladin because the character is in no way a warrior. I'll look into that though, thanks. I think what I'll end up doing is a mixed class, starting with the Hexblade Warlock, and then developing into either a Paladin or Cleric.