I was unhappy with the current state of Blood Hunter Oaths, so I decided to try making one of my own. For clarification, I was thinking about making a blood hunter in a campaign I'm going to participate in soon. The characters will start at 3rd level and work up, so I'd immediately have access to an oath. I was considering a human variant with the polearm master feat, and was originally going to be a hexblade. But then I thought about a blood hunter and wanted to see how a glass cannon would do instead.
What I found was; Hexblades are tougher, do more damage, and have access to pact magic. Even as a profane soul, I would still be stuck using strength for polearm attacks, dexterity for medium armor and wisdom for my spells (something that I hope to have fixed with this subclass, though I don't offer spells.)
In any case, tell me what you think.
Order of the Soulblade
(3rd level) Rite of the Soul: When you join this order at 3rd level, you learn the esoteric rite Rite of the Soul (detailed below).
Rite of the Soul. Your rite damage is force type. The damage you suffer from activating this rite is halved. Whenever you attack with a weapon with your Rite of the Soul active, you can use your Wisdom modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. This benefit lasts until your Rite fades from the weapon.
Whenever you hit a creature with your Rite of the Soul, if you had advantage on the attack roll, it suffers additional force damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.
(7th level) Macabre Assault:Beginning at 7th level, you learn to twist your enemies soul against it. Whenever you subject a creature to one of your blood curses, you gain advantage on attack rolls against that creature until the end of your next turn. If the curse was amplified, you also crit on a roll of 19-20 until this effect ends.
(11th level) Soulblade: Upon reaching 11th level, you’ve learned to harness your own essence to wield against your foes. While your Rite of the Soul is active, you can cast the Rite again as a bonus action to empower your weapon for 1 minute. Attacks from an empowered weapon have advantage and deal an additional die of Rite damage.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a short or long rest.
(15th level) Spirit Shield: At 15th level, you've mastered the manipulation of blood and soul. You no longer lose maximum health when you activate your Crimson Rite feature and instead gain that many temporary hit points. You still take damage from activating a Rite as normal.
(18th level) At Death's Door: Upon reaching 18th level, the strength of your spirit carries you on even on the verge of death. Whenever your hit points would drop to 0, you instead remain at 1 hit point and gain temporary hit points equal to half of your total hit points, rounded down. You gain 1 level of exhaustion whenever you lose the temporary hit points gained from this ability, which vanish after 1 minute.
After using this feature, you must complete a long rest before it becomes available again.
Been a bit since I went around and did some feedback, but I really like this one! So!
3rd level: I really dig this. Takes a lot from the Ghostslayer, but makes it wis based instead of strength or dex is pretty sweet.
That said, I don't think you need the advantage bit. It's a little much as it's already replacing the need for strength/dex for your marked weapons.
7th level: really clever use of the blood curses! Super easy to follow, and not over powered.
11th level: doubling the self damage for doubling the output. It's not seen in any other order I've seen, so I really enjoy it. But, I think it should only be a long rest recharge. You're already focused on wis due to the rite, so by this point you'll have 5 charges. Recharging that on a short rest is overkill and might as well be at will and i do think it should have a limit.
15th level: not loosing from the max hp is an okay ability, but then you get temp and take damage anyway? Isn't that just negating the hp loss for any crimson rite? Why not just word it like that? I might be missing something though!
17th level: almost like ghostslayer, but instead you keep your body! Do you gain exhaustion every time you take damage while you have temp or just when you loose *all* temp hp? The latter seems pretty interesting, and i think that's what you meant!
I like this idea a lot. Definitely a better "hexblade" than the profane soul offers.
Thanks for the feedback! as far as the abilities go I'll give some reasoning behind some of my choices. I'm still working on this subclass because I want to play it, but I don't want to be overshadowed by other dps to the same degree. I want to be as good in melee as a hexblade, or better even since this subclass lacks spells and ranged attacks in general. Please keep in mind that this is still a work in progress, and I appreciate all feedback!
3rd level. It was either wisdom in place of strength or dexterity, or proficiency with heavy armor, and I'm still debating it. Part of the reason I choose the damage bonus on advantage is that blood hunters are touted as glass cannons, but I don't see myself doing any more damage than a rogue or ranger while spending my own hit points to activate my abilities. Blood hunters don't have a way to force advantage on their attacks, so I thought it wouldn't be too strong to get the damage bonus this early, and then supplement it with other abilities that -do- give them access to advantage. By 7th level, you can use Blood Maledict twice, so that's two rounds of attacks with advantage (and the bonus damage) to nova with. This, of course, gets better if you have someone in your party that can consistently give you advantage, but smart party composition shouldn't dictate how strong something is since poor party composition makes the feature near useless in the early game.
To their namesake, I was going to make the Rite of the Soulblade similar to the Duergar Soulblade ability. Soulblade.Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d6 + 3) force damage, or 10 (2d6 + 3) force damage while enlarged. If the soulblade has advantage on the attack roll, the attack deals an extra 3 (1d6) force damage.
So instead of your wisdom modifier, I was thinking an extra die of Rite damage. Would be less consistent, but it would take away from wisdom some. I figure if I did that, I would take away the wisdom replacing strength or dexterity and give the subclass proficiency with heavy armor, giving it some more flexibility.
7th level. This is where the "having advantage makes you good" comes into play. By this level, rogues do 4d6 once a round with advantage or with another PM within 5 feet, for an average of 4-24 additional damage at no action cost. While I understand it's apples to oranges as far as class comparisons go, the numbers are in their favor. Being able to force advantage seemed the only way to really keep up with other classes. Or, redesigning the subclass entirely (which I may still do).
11th level. I was debating this myself because it's not only the damage boost to consider, but the boost in average damage by more hits landing because of advantage. A good change that I'll probably change.
15th level. Instead of other hunters who cut or hurt themselves to bloody their weapon and cast their rite, the Rite of the Soul more or less uses your life force instead of your blood. I wanted something that would help lessen the cost of empowering your weapon but still keep the identity of the blood hunter. By gaining temporary hit points and taking damage, it's like their using their own spirit to shield themselves. And, if you receive any healing, you're still left with the temps. I could make it so that Rites no longer cause the user damage or reduce their maximum hit points, and it'd be basically even.
18th level. This one was a toss up between what's as written and another idea. And yes, you gain exhaustion when you lose the temporary hit points, which happens after 1 minute or you take enough damage to lose them before that, not each time you take damage. The other idea I had was making it so that attacks made with any weapon with you Rite of the Soul active on it did force damage, in place of their regular weapon damage. As you probably know, force damage has the fewest monsters with resistance or immunity to it, so I figured it would be a good final ability.
My goal was to make a subclass that felt like it took the Blood Hunter one step deeper. What starts as Blood rites grow into the manipulation of life energy. Blood rites are strong, but what happens when you start toying with the very thing that makes you tick.
Some other abilities I had in mind but didn't know if they were overpowered or how well they fit the class;
3rd level. Whenever a creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to deal damage to that creature with an active Rite. (seems better for a tankier class; Though I considered making this subclass more about heavy armor and temporary hit points, wading into melee and provoking foes.)
7th level. Your Hunter's Bane ability extends to Abberations and Monstrosities, and whenever you spend 10 minutes or more tracking one of the monster types affected by your Hunter's Bane, you have advantage on attacks made on your first turn in combat with the tracked creature. (advantage fits the class mechanically, but it doesn't fit the Soulblade thematically.)
7th level. Whenever you subject a creature to one of your blood curses, you may have it take damage equal to your wisdom modifier. (a simple way to give some extra damage while limiting its output by Blood Maledict charges.)
Thank you for the feedback so far. No matter how I may come across, I appreciate it. Any help or discussion about making the subclass more mechanically or thematically cohesive is also greatly appreciated.
I was unhappy with the current state of Blood Hunter Oaths, so I decided to try making one of my own. For clarification, I was thinking about making a blood hunter in a campaign I'm going to participate in soon. The characters will start at 3rd level and work up, so I'd immediately have access to an oath. I was considering a human variant with the polearm master feat, and was originally going to be a hexblade. But then I thought about a blood hunter and wanted to see how a glass cannon would do instead.
What I found was; Hexblades are tougher, do more damage, and have access to pact magic. Even as a profane soul, I would still be stuck using strength for polearm attacks, dexterity for medium armor and wisdom for my spells (something that I hope to have fixed with this subclass, though I don't offer spells.)
In any case, tell me what you think.
Order of the Soulblade
(3rd level) Rite of the Soul: When you join this order at 3rd level, you learn the esoteric rite Rite of the Soul (detailed below).
Rite of the Soul. Your rite damage is force type. The damage you suffer from activating this rite is halved. Whenever you attack with a weapon with your Rite of the Soul active, you can use your Wisdom modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. This benefit lasts until your Rite fades from the weapon.
Whenever you hit a creature with your Rite of the Soul, if you had advantage on the attack roll, it suffers additional force damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.
(7th level) Macabre Assault: Beginning at 7th level, you learn to twist your enemies soul against it. Whenever you subject a creature to one of your blood curses, you gain advantage on attack rolls against that creature until the end of your next turn. If the curse was amplified, you also crit on a roll of 19-20 until this effect ends.
(11th level) Soulblade: Upon reaching 11th level, you’ve learned to harness your own essence to wield against your foes. While your Rite of the Soul is active, you can cast the Rite again as a bonus action to empower your weapon for 1 minute. Attacks from an empowered weapon have advantage and deal an additional die of Rite damage.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a short or long rest.
(15th level) Spirit Shield: At 15th level, you've mastered the manipulation of blood and soul. You no longer lose maximum health when you activate your Crimson Rite feature and instead gain that many temporary hit points. You still take damage from activating a Rite as normal.
(18th level) At Death's Door: Upon reaching 18th level, the strength of your spirit carries you on even on the verge of death. Whenever your hit points would drop to 0, you instead remain at 1 hit point and gain temporary hit points equal to half of your total hit points, rounded down. You gain 1 level of exhaustion whenever you lose the temporary hit points gained from this ability, which vanish after 1 minute.
After using this feature, you must complete a long rest before it becomes available again.
What do you think? Should I just roll a Hexblade?
Been a bit since I went around and did some feedback, but I really like this one! So!
3rd level: I really dig this. Takes a lot from the Ghostslayer, but makes it wis based instead of strength or dex is pretty sweet.
That said, I don't think you need the advantage bit. It's a little much as it's already replacing the need for strength/dex for your marked weapons.
7th level: really clever use of the blood curses! Super easy to follow, and not over powered.
11th level: doubling the self damage for doubling the output. It's not seen in any other order I've seen, so I really enjoy it. But, I think it should only be a long rest recharge. You're already focused on wis due to the rite, so by this point you'll have 5 charges. Recharging that on a short rest is overkill and might as well be at will and i do think it should have a limit.
15th level: not loosing from the max hp is an okay ability, but then you get temp and take damage anyway? Isn't that just negating the hp loss for any crimson rite? Why not just word it like that? I might be missing something though!
17th level: almost like ghostslayer, but instead you keep your body! Do you gain exhaustion every time you take damage while you have temp or just when you loose *all* temp hp? The latter seems pretty interesting, and i think that's what you meant!
I like this idea a lot. Definitely a better "hexblade" than the profane soul offers.
Thanks for the feedback! as far as the abilities go I'll give some reasoning behind some of my choices. I'm still working on this subclass because I want to play it, but I don't want to be overshadowed by other dps to the same degree. I want to be as good in melee as a hexblade, or better even since this subclass lacks spells and ranged attacks in general. Please keep in mind that this is still a work in progress, and I appreciate all feedback!
3rd level. It was either wisdom in place of strength or dexterity, or proficiency with heavy armor, and I'm still debating it. Part of the reason I choose the damage bonus on advantage is that blood hunters are touted as glass cannons, but I don't see myself doing any more damage than a rogue or ranger while spending my own hit points to activate my abilities. Blood hunters don't have a way to force advantage on their attacks, so I thought it wouldn't be too strong to get the damage bonus this early, and then supplement it with other abilities that -do- give them access to advantage. By 7th level, you can use Blood Maledict twice, so that's two rounds of attacks with advantage (and the bonus damage) to nova with. This, of course, gets better if you have someone in your party that can consistently give you advantage, but smart party composition shouldn't dictate how strong something is since poor party composition makes the feature near useless in the early game.
To their namesake, I was going to make the Rite of the Soulblade similar to the Duergar Soulblade ability. Soulblade. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d6 + 3) force damage, or 10 (2d6 + 3) force damage while enlarged. If the soulblade has advantage on the attack roll, the attack deals an extra 3 (1d6) force damage.
So instead of your wisdom modifier, I was thinking an extra die of Rite damage. Would be less consistent, but it would take away from wisdom some. I figure if I did that, I would take away the wisdom replacing strength or dexterity and give the subclass proficiency with heavy armor, giving it some more flexibility.
7th level. This is where the "having advantage makes you good" comes into play. By this level, rogues do 4d6 once a round with advantage or with another PM within 5 feet, for an average of 4-24 additional damage at no action cost. While I understand it's apples to oranges as far as class comparisons go, the numbers are in their favor. Being able to force advantage seemed the only way to really keep up with other classes. Or, redesigning the subclass entirely (which I may still do).
11th level. I was debating this myself because it's not only the damage boost to consider, but the boost in average damage by more hits landing because of advantage. A good change that I'll probably change.
15th level. Instead of other hunters who cut or hurt themselves to bloody their weapon and cast their rite, the Rite of the Soul more or less uses your life force instead of your blood. I wanted something that would help lessen the cost of empowering your weapon but still keep the identity of the blood hunter. By gaining temporary hit points and taking damage, it's like their using their own spirit to shield themselves. And, if you receive any healing, you're still left with the temps. I could make it so that Rites no longer cause the user damage or reduce their maximum hit points, and it'd be basically even.
18th level. This one was a toss up between what's as written and another idea. And yes, you gain exhaustion when you lose the temporary hit points, which happens after 1 minute or you take enough damage to lose them before that, not each time you take damage. The other idea I had was making it so that attacks made with any weapon with you Rite of the Soul active on it did force damage, in place of their regular weapon damage. As you probably know, force damage has the fewest monsters with resistance or immunity to it, so I figured it would be a good final ability.
My goal was to make a subclass that felt like it took the Blood Hunter one step deeper. What starts as Blood rites grow into the manipulation of life energy. Blood rites are strong, but what happens when you start toying with the very thing that makes you tick.
Some other abilities I had in mind but didn't know if they were overpowered or how well they fit the class;
Thank you for the feedback so far. No matter how I may come across, I appreciate it. Any help or discussion about making the subclass more mechanically or thematically cohesive is also greatly appreciated.