Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[And I'm afraid that's it for the night. cya.]]

[[ No worries. cya. ]]

[[Is the Stone of Unseeing active?]]

[[Not while in tunnel unless he hears something unexpected.]]

[[Had to do some thinking about medieval civil engineering and came up with the realisation that Brand would need to be crouched next to the outflow pipe because this place doesn't have the technology to create large steel-reinforced concrete tubes as we can (see description of outflow pipe below)]]

[[Therefore Brand is actually next to the outflow tunnel. He would be crouched down in rushing water if he were actually in the tunnel, which I presume he wouldn't want to do. However, I am presuming he doesn't have the stone active at the moment. Correct me if I am wrong.]]

Brand has just begun to think he needs to get out of his crouched position, so as to give his legs a rest, when he becomes aware of a dim light coming towards him from downriver.

[[Edit: He is also feeling cold and a little damp, despite his 'cloak' protecting him from most of the rain.]]

[[ Down-, or up-  river? My image had the temples being nearer the mouth...you probably mentioned this before and I had comprehension failure.

[[The temples of Mithras, Aieda and Donai are in the Temple Ward, which is upriver from the Brand residence. There is only a shrine to Oannes in the Temple Ward. His main temple is downriver at the mouth so that it looks out over the sea.]]

In any case, would that be the right direction for the light to be coming along the river from the house? ]]

[[Correct.]]

[[ If from house, or if they seem to be making their way towards him, Brand waits until they are a minute or so away then uses the Stone on Unseeing and Levitation and leaves the tunnel so that they can enter without him obstructing their progress...he will seek out shelter under a tree, if possible. Somewhere he can actually 'hide' in the traditional sense as well.

Before he leaves, he glances around...(should have done this before)...how wide and tall is the tunnel, and it is just a single 'tube', or are there other features visible? There's a possibility (eg. if it's 18' tall or has many branches) that he might stay, but I doubt it. He's not going to go far into tunnel, he'll just rely on 60' vision to check. ]]

[[Apart from the other outlets, there is no other cover on this steep-sloped riverbank (and certainly no trees). It is mainly rock and mud and is quite slippery. The outflow tunnel he is crouched under is roughly rectangular in shape with a rounded roof and is about five feet wide by four feet high in the middle. The sides and roof are made of mortared brick while the floor is made of crete (i.e., Sorendenese concrete) slabs. The outflow pipe emerges from the bank about three feet above the level of the river (at this moment; the river is probably affected by the tides) and the emerging water has carved a hole in the bank at this point.]]

[[ This was previously described as big enough to take a man standing up...no longer?

I'm also curious as to where you got the size limit...pretty sure the romans and french has substantive tunnel systems that were large (but cut from soft or sometimes hard rock or relatively shallow); is this limit a reference to the cistern presumably being on bedrock, but the outflow having to go through deep earth/mud? eg. romans built 6m high tunnels through hills, big enough for vehicles. Aquaducts were frequently 1m wide and 2m high, to allow workers access.

Edit: This is presumably an overflow system? Which would mean it starts near ground level, and in rock? I can't imagine they would dig through mud, rather than just let it flow down brick channels to the river...but I assume we are working from non-shared images of the scene.

In any case:]]

Brand remains 'sneaking' and If they seem to be making their way towards him, he waits until they are a minute or so away (or 60') then uses the Stone on Unseeing and Levitation and leaves the tunnel so that they can enter without him obstructing their progress...he will move to the side and keep nearby, with the hope of catching conversation, if any.

He will also scan the area, and the people, for mana.

Sensible people would cancel the mish and come back when it's not raining. Just saying.]]

[[ If you haven't done it already, check out cisterns as well. They seem even more complex than tunnels. ]]

[[ The Romans used to build extravagant engineering works as a sign of their beneficence and superiority and employed the best tech available to them. In Engle/Sorendon, that would be magic.

How does a tunnel made by repeated applications of mud-to-rock sound?

https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/transmute-rock
,_ That does a 40' cube! Best practive would be:

• solidify an area
• liquify the core of the solid area.
• shore it up with bricks, rock, wood etc
• move to end of new tunnel
• rinse and repeat

That way a "Dispell" is probably not going to take out your shiny new tunnel.

]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[ This was previously described as big enough to take a man standing up...no longer?

[[The words I used when describing the outlets were: '... there are only three that he thinks could be the outflow pipe of the cistern; the only ones large enough for a man to be able to enter. However, at the moment, all of them have torrents of water spilling out of them.' i.e., entering the tunnels is a completely different thing to standing up in them.]]

 

I'm also curious as to where you got the size limit...pretty sure the romans and french has substantive tunnel systems that were large (but cut from soft or sometimes hard rock or relatively shallow); is this limit a reference to the cistern presumably being on bedrock, but the outflow having to go through deep earth/mud? eg. romans built 6m high tunnels through hills, big enough for vehicles. Aquaducts were frequently 1m wide and 2m high, to allow workers access.

[[Bedrock is normally hard to find in a river delta above the level of the river. However, the Temple Ward has been previously described as being on raised land and the multiple outlets are the drainage systems from various establishments on that raised land that have been built over time, not as one major activity. The city of Constantine is also only about a century old, so it hasn't reached the population density required for major restructuring of the below-ground infrastructure as is forced on the inhabitants of many major cities at some time in their history. The drains also seem to be coping with the run-off from the storm quite well, which would seem to indicate that they are fit for purpose, so over-engineering would be wasteful.]]

Edit: This is presumably an overflow system? Which would mean it starts near ground level, and in rock? I can't imagine they would dig through mud, rather than just let it flow down brick channels to the river...but I assume we are working from non-shared images of the scene.

[[The overflow system is an incorrect assumption as there isn't the height distance between the level of the buildings and the river to warrant such. As previously mentioned, the cistern does indeed have an outflow channel because supply normally exceeds demand, but the outflow channel would simply divert water into one of the main drains, one of which Brand is hiding next to. Also, the lack of solid rock to build the tunnels through is why they are now lined with bricks and mortar, i.e., there may not be rock on the other side of those bricks, but it doesn't matter, because the bricks and mortar effectively make a waterproof seal. Luckily for the sake of the mission, the major drains were built large enough for inspection and maintenance to be done.]]

In any case:]]

Brand remains 'sneaking' and If they seem to be making their way towards him, he waits until they are a minute or so away (or 60') then uses the Stone on Unseeing and Levitation and leaves the tunnel so that they can enter without him obstructing their progress...he will move to the side and keep nearby, with the hope of catching conversation, if any.

He will also scan the area, and the people, for mana.

Sensible people would cancel the mish and come back when it's not raining. Just saying.]]

While Brand is wondering why anyone in their right mind is planning to enter stormwater tunnels on the night of a storm, he realises that the boat has stopped at the slightly smaller outlet a little bit downriver from the larger one he is hiding behind.

Because of his darkvision and the covered lanterns the men in the boat are using, he can see quite well as a couple of anchors are used to secure the boat to the riverbank. Then, a small figure with coils of rope slung over their shoulders steps from the boat onto the bank and after making a gesture enters the tunnel, seemingly against the rush of the water, which if anything seems to be gushing out stronger now.

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[ The Romans used to build extravagant engineering works as a sign of their beneficence and superiority and employed the best tech available to them. In Engle/Sorendon, that would be magic.

How does a tunnel made by repeated applications of mud-to-rock sound?

https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/transmute-rock
,_ That does a 40' cube! Best practive would be:

• solidify an area
• liquify the core of the solid area.
• shore it up with bricks, rock, wood etc
• move to end of new tunnel
• rinse and repeat

That way a "Dispell" is probably not going to take out your shiny new tunnel.

]]

[[This is certainly doable with the mechanics of the game, but you should probably be glad to learn that there are not enough ninth level magic users in Constantine to have them involved in civil engineering projects. Basically, this is a high entropy, low power level campaign in the region of Engle. N.B. This might not be the case elsewhere, and might not have been the case in the past. (remember the Temple of Set in the Lonely Mountains).]]

The words I used when describing the outlets were...

[[ There's that reading comprehension again. Probably observer bias.]]

...Then, a small figure with coils of rope slung over their shoulders steps from the boat onto the bank and after making a gesture enters the tunnel, seemingly against the rush of the water, which if anything seems to be gushing out stronger now.

Levitating and invisible, Brand makes his way along the bank to get a better idea of what is planned, and if the people in the boat are saying anything of interest.

He also scans for mana or active spells in the area he is leaving, on the people on the boat, and in the area of the person with ropes.

[[ Did it look like the person with ropes was the 'trapper' (height, clothes), and did they seem to have any difficulty getting through the water?

Best assumption now: they are going to tie ropes to the others can follow more easily; Brand will look out for support OR contradiction of this theory. Also wondering if there are illusions at play, but not sure what he would see if there were. ]]

[[should probably be glad to learn that there are not enough ninth level magic users in Constantine]]

[[ lol. Most definitely.Though I would not exclude the possibility of a "Settlements'R'Us" venture somewhere in the empire.

Also, does that mean that the cistern is not a left-over relic but part of the work by the settlers in the last 100 years? That's good to know also. ]]

 [[ so over-engineering would be wasteful ]]

...high power and high entropy. I guess that's why they have street lights: high entropy, low power. Is high-entropy a Sorendenese thing, or an Engelian addition?

It's probably why I like the Romans, they were never afraid of over-engineering: 1000 year concrete, building cities to last, and anticipating big populations etc.]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

...Then, a small figure with coils of rope slung over their shoulders steps from the boat onto the bank and after making a gesture enters the tunnel, seemingly against the rush of the water, which if anything seems to be gushing out stronger now.

Levitating and invisible, Brand makes his way along the bank to get a better idea of what is planned, and if the people in the boat are saying anything of interest.

[[As Brand makes his way along the bank using his stones, he initially hears someone complaining bitterly about the rain, but then he hears a gruff voice tell the person to shut-the-*&%&&^-up at which point the group goes silent.]]

He also scans for mana or active spells in the area he is leaving, on the people on the boat, and in the area of the person with ropes.

[[With the vision power of his Stone of Unseeing, he sees that there appears to be no concentrations of mana in the area where he was hiding.]]

[[ Did it look like the person with ropes was the 'trapper' (height, clothes), and did they seem to have any difficulty getting through the water?

[[Yes and No.]]

[[Now that he is closer, he can see Fazal Ahmet and Bom and five others in the boat. Ahmet and one of the others are hidden under a tent-like cover that is over one end of the boat. Bom and the other four are standing out in the rain looking up the tunnel where the 'trapper' has gone. Without getting in direct line with the tunnel, Brand cannot see the trapper.]]

[[You need to make an uncertain Perception check at this point.]]

Best assumption now: they are going to tie ropes to the others can follow more easily; Brand will look out for support OR contradiction of this theory. Also wondering if there are illusions at play, but not sure what he would see if there were. ]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[should probably be glad to learn that there are not enough ninth level magic users in Constantine]]

[[ lol. Most definitely.Though I would not exclude the possibility of a "Settlements'R'Us" venture somewhere in the empire.

Also, does that mean that the cistern is not a left-over relic but part of the work by the settlers in the last 100 years? That's good to know also. ]]

[[Make a History check.]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

 [[ so over-engineering would be wasteful ]]

...high power and high entropy. I guess that's why they have street lights: high entropy, low power. Is high-entropy a Sorendenese thing, or an Engelian addition?

[[High entropy, low power, in that magic is abundant but of low power, so things can happen here that can't happen in the real world (Wild Magic Sorcery for one).]]

It's probably why I like the Romans, they were never afraid of over-engineering: 1000 year concrete, building cities to last, and anticipating big populations etc.]]

[[They also needed something for their legions to do when they weren't fighting wars.]]

He also scans for mana or active spells in the area he is leaving, on the people on the boat, and in the area of the person with ropes.

[[With the vision power of his Stone of Unseeing, he sees that there appears to be no concentrations of mana in the area where he was hiding.]]
...
[[You need to make an uncertain Perception check at this point.]]

I'm, assuming that the other parts of the question are what the perception check is about. If not, I'd love the answer here!

Perception: 5

Also, does that mean that the cistern is not a left-over relic but part of the work by the settlers in the last 100 years? That's good to know also. ]]

[[Make a History check.]]

History: 9

 [[They also needed something for their legions to do when they weren't fighting wars.]]

[[ That's the reason they had excess resources; what they chose to do with the excess resources is, I think, something that sets them apart. ]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

He also scans for mana or active spells in the area he is leaving, on the people on the boat, and in the area of the person with ropes.

[[With the vision power of his Stone of Unseeing, he sees that there appears to be no concentrations of mana in the area where he was hiding.]]
...
[[You need to make an uncertain Perception check at this point.]]

I'm, assuming that the other parts of the question are what the perception check is about. If not, I'd love the answer here!

Perception: 19

Also, does that mean that the cistern is not a left-over relic but part of the work by the settlers in the last 100 years? That's good to know also. ]]

[[Make a History check.]]

History: 10

[[Brand is aware that there was no major city on the site of Constantine before the Sorendenese arrived. What was here, he doesn't know.]]

Brand's special sight given to him by the Stone of Unseeing allows him to pick up a concentration of mana on the person under the shelter on the boat with Ahmet. Closer inspection reveals that the man has a cat on his lap whose outline is fuzzy with the glow of mana. Brand has seen similar creatures before and he believes the cat is the man's familiar spirit. However, somewhat surprisingly, the man doesn't appear to have an aura of mana about his head, so he can't be an innate sorcerer.

Brand then moves so that he can stick his head around the edge of the outlet tunnel. About forty feet up the tunnel, Brand can see the 'trapper' moving up the slope, his way being illuminated by a red light that seems to be travelling with him. Strangely, the water rushing down the tunnel seems to be avoiding the man, moving down the other side of the tunnel from where he is climbing before it floods back to cover the whole floor again. 

[[ Brand's special sight given to him by the Stone of Unseeing allows him to pick up a concentration of mana on the person under the shelter on the boat with Ahmet ]]

[[ Just checking, is that the big guy who was with him before, or someone he has not seen before? ]]

[[...before it floods back to cover the whole floor again]]

[[ Useful talent. I think I need this prestidigitation-crack...does Brand have any chance of recognizing the 'form' of spells? Can he see a spell active on the 'trapper (Mr T) and 'recognize' it'? ]]

Brand waits, keeping an eye on the Mr T, while listening to the boat occupants, and checking who is there in more detail.

[[ Is it just Rawl+4, Mr T (elsewhere) and Fazal and his offsider + cat ? If the cat looks at him, then wave and mouth (and say VERY quietly) "Hello friend of XXX (name)" ... if XXX is the offsider-dude of Fazal. Otherwise he tries to keep out of the cat's vision. (He feels mildly emboldened by the rat interaction, and does not see these three as a threat) ]].

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[ Brand's special sight given to him by the Stone of Unseeing allows him to pick up a concentration of mana on the person under the shelter on the boat with Ahmet ]]

[[ Just checking, is that the big guy who was with him before, or someone he has not seen before? ]]

[[The 'big guy' is Bom, Ahmet's right-hand man, but that is not the man under the cover with the cat. That is one of Rawl's men he spied on from the secret passage.]]

[[...before it floods back to cover the whole floor again]]

[[ Useful talent. I think I need this prestidigitation-crack...does Brand have any chance of recognizing the 'form' of spells? Can he see a spell active on the 'trapper (Mr T) and 'recognize' it'? ]]

[[If he were closer, his special vision might enable him to see some sort of structure in the mana, which might give him a chance to make an Arcana check, but at the moment, the man is too far away for that.]]

---

Brand waits, keeping an eye on the Mr T, while listening to the boat occupants, and checking who is there in more detail.

[[ Is it just Rawl+4, Mr T (elsewhere) and Fazal and his offsider + cat ? If the cat looks at him, then wave and mouth (and say VERY quietly) "Hello friend of XXX (name)" ... if XXX is the offsider-dude of Fazal. Otherwise he tries to keep out of the cat's vision. (He feels mildly emboldened by the rat interaction, and does not see these three as a threat) ]].

[[Just to be clear: The biggest man is Bom, Fazal Ahmet's offsider; Fazal Ahmet is the one-armed man who apparently knows the system of the drains, he is one of the men under the boat cover; Mr T is the one up the tunnel, he is unknown by Brand but was not classed as one of the expendables by Koric. The rest are Rawl and his four men. Rawl is fairly obvious. He's the well-built Stemian man talking quietly with one of his companions; they are griping about the weather. Another of Rawl's men is the man (with the cat) currently talking with Ahmet under cover. The other two of Rawl's men are standing apart from the rest. One is staring at the lights on the other side of the river and the other just seems to be staring at his feet, brooding.]]

[[Regarding the cat, and other factors, make a Stealth check just to make sure Brand hasn't done anything to give himself away.]]

[[ Another of Rawl's men is the man (with the cat) ]]

[[ Gooood clarification. But Bom is there (not the dude with the cat)? Otherwise there are no surprises? ]]

[[Regarding the cat, and other factors, make a Stealth check just to make sure Brand hasn't done anything to give himself away.]]

Double-boo. Praying to Venuss, tho it hasn't helped recently: 14

It's the thought that counts tho.

[[ Can he see much of the goings-on in the tunnel? Or hear much from cat-dude (Mr C)? Otherwise, unless problems present, he will haver to watch and wait while Mt T does his thing.To avoid the cat's gaze, he might get above the boat tarp/roof/cover, and listen in.

Broadly speaking, he will be wary of the cat. Just checking: he has seen cats before when invisible? ]]

[[Cast of characters:

Mr T
Mr C, and C
R-man (Rawl),
F-man (Fazal),
The B (Bom)

We need more names. ]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[ Another of Rawl's men is the man (with the cat) ]]

[[ Gooood clarification. But Bom is there (not the dude with the cat)? Otherwise there are no surprises? ]]

[[The second sentence above is confusing to me, though. Both Bom and the dude with the cat are there in the boat. Bom is not in the tent with Ahmet though, he is waiting diligently out in the rain at the entrance to the tunnel.]]

[[Regarding the cat, and other factors, make a Stealth check just to make sure Brand hasn't done anything to give himself away.]]

Double-boo. Praying to Venuss, tho it hasn't helped recently: 13

It's the thought that counts tho.

[[And perhaps the thought counted because there is no indication that his presence has been noticed by any person, or cat.]]

[[ Can he see much of the goings-on in the tunnel? Or hear much from cat-dude (Mr C)? Otherwise, unless problems present, he will haver to watch and wait while Mt T does his thing.To avoid the cat's gaze, he might get above the boat tarp/roof/cover, and listen in.

Broadly speaking, he will be wary of the cat. Just checking: he has seen cats before when invisible? ]]

[[He has seen animals before while invisible and apparently has been invisible to them. He doesn't specifically remember experimenting with cats, but this one, at least, doesn't seem to be paying him any attention.]]

To avoid the cat's gaze, Brand is considering the risks involved in moving across so that he is floating above the canopy on the boat. There is little to no wind, so he might not be pushed away, but if he were, then it would be tricky to get back.

However, this become a moot point as Bom suddenly reaches forward and picks up the end of a rope that has just been pushed out of the end of the tunnel by the water flow.

"Here is the rope," say Bom, his voice thick with the accent of the Hartus Plains. "Am I to go up next, Master Ahmet?"

"Yes, Bom," says Fazal stepping out from beneath the canopy. "They will need your strength to help them up."

"No," says Rawl. "I will go next. I don't need the strength of any other man to help make such a climb, but my sword might be needed by your trap finder up there."

"As you wish," says Fazal with a slight bow.

At this, Rawl takes the rope from Bom and uses it to help him cross from the boat to the bank. Then, after giving an uncertain look up the tunnel, he crouches down and begins to force his way up the tunnel.

Moments later, there is a curse and Rawl comes sliding back out on his belly and only just stops himself going into the river because of the death grip he has on the rope.

"By Donai's balls," he curses again. "That floor is slippery. How did that milksop climb up there so easily?"

"If you need to, use your shoulders to brace yourself against the ceiling," advises Bom, good naturedly. "And there are also holes in the brickwork on the right-hand side about a foot off the ground."

"You could have said that," says Rawl brusquely.

"You could have asked," replies Bom.

Rawl just scowls and then once again enters the tunnel. 

This time, he is much more successful and after a while the brooding man steps forward and says, "Me next."

"No," says Bom putting out a hand. "We wait until we get the signal. If Rawl slips and falls again, then he will bring you down with him."

The group is silent for a full two minutes until the rope suddenly goes slack and then starts to lengthen and shorten in quick succession.

"It is the signal," says Bom, turning to the brooding man. "Watch for it. When I reach the top, I will help pull you and the others up."

The man nods and then Bom enters the tunnel showing a familiarity with such activities.

[[While those that are going up the tunnel do so, what is Brand going to be doing?]]