When a creature you can see ends its turn within 30 feet of you, you can use your reaction to invoke the rune and force the creature to make a Wisdom saving throw. Unless the save succeeds, the creature is charmed by you for 1 minute. While charmed in this way, the creature has a speed of 0 and is incapacitated, descending into a dreamy stupor. The creature repeats the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on a success. Once you invoke this rune, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.
It doesn't state that if you hit the creature the effect ends, but I wanted to confirm that if I hit the incapacitated creature will the rune effect end, or will it stay incapacitated?
When a creature you can see ends its turn within 30 feet of you, you can use your reaction to invoke the rune and force the creature to make a Wisdom saving throw. Unless the save succeeds, the creature is charmed by you for 1 minute. While charmed in this way, the creature has a speed of 0 and is incapacitated, descending into a dreamy stupor. The creature repeats the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on a success. Once you invoke this rune, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.
It doesn't state that if you hit the creature the effect ends, but I wanted to confirm that if I hit the incapacitated creature will the rune effect end, or will it stay incapacitated?
In the Unearthed Arcana version of the Rune Knight, invoking the Stone Rune worked a little differently. They didn't get to re-roll the save on subsequent turns to try and snap out of it, but the effect would end once they took damage or someone used their action to shake them out of their stupor. In practice, this meant that invoking the rune basically just gave the party one easy hit against them, or they could just leave them alone and hope none of the other enemies would shake them out of it. In the final version, the only way for them to come out of it is if the 1 minute passes, or they make the save on a subsequent turn. I started playing a Rune Knight when it was still UA and switched to the official version when Tasha's was released. The official version of the Stone rune definitely plays better. If they fail the first save you're basically guaranteed a full round of them being easy to hit, unless another enemy has the ability to end a charm effect, like Greater Restoration. I prefer the flat 120' Darkvision too, in the UA version you got either 60' or if you already had Darkvision you got +30'.
I read from this, "Unless the save succeeds, the creature is charmed by you for 1 minute. While charmed in this way, the creature has a speed of 0 and is incapacitated, descending into a dreamy stupor. "
They specifically say Charmed, twice - not another condition that could match (not asleep, stunned, frightened) or any other non-condition word. Yet even though they say charmed,... the charmed condition is basically negated because the target gets incapacitated:
Charmed
- A charmed creature can't attack the charmer or target the charmer with harmful abilities or magical effects.
- The charmer has advantage on any ability check to interact socially with the creature."
But per the other spell that provides the charmed condition:
Charmed Person:
"You attempt to charm a humanoid you can see within range. It must make a Wisdom saving throw, and does so with advantage if you or your companions are fighting it. If it fails the saving throw, it is charmed by you until the spell ends or until you or your companions do anything harmful to it. The charmed creature regards you as a friendly acquaintance. When the spell ends, the creature knows it was charmed by you.
The 5th level Dominate Person spell also charms you, and it allows for Wisdom saving throws on each turn, and when the target takes damage. "...Each time the target takes damage, it makes a new Wisdom saving throw against the spell. If the saving throw succeeds, the spell ends."
My point, a 3rd level class feature probably shouldn't be stronger than a 9th class level/5th level spell, and so the charm effect should be broken if the target takes damage. But that's not definitive or clear - just my interpretation.
I read from this, "Unless the save succeeds, the creature is charmed by you for 1 minute. While charmed in this way, the creature has a speed of 0 and is incapacitated, descending into a dreamy stupor. "
They specifically say Charmed, twice - not another condition that could match (not asleep, stunned, frightened) or any other non-condition word. Yet even though they say charmed,... the charmed condition is basically negated because the target gets incapacitated:
Charmed
- A charmed creature can't attack the charmer or target the charmer with harmful abilities or magical effects.
- The charmer has advantage on any ability check to interact socially with the creature."
The 5th level Dominate Person spell also charms you, and it allows for Wisdom saving throws on each turn, and when the target takes damage. "...Each time the target takes damage, it makes a new Wisdom saving throw against the spell. If the saving throw succeeds, the spell ends."
My point, a 3rd level class feature probably shouldn't be stronger than a 9th class level/5th level spell, and so the charm effect should be broken if the target takes damage. But that's not definitive or clear - just my interpretation.
I see what you mean about incapacitated, it would be this way because more creature are immune/resistant to charm than incapacitaion. It is to keep it balanced.
Comparing it to charm or dominate person are completely misleading because the only thing they have in common is the condition and not the entire rest of their effects. If it gained control of the monster in any way or didn't repeat the save every turn, then it could be comparable, but it is in fact weaker than either spell *for situations where you would use the spell.
It would be more accurate to compare this to a much weaker hold person than any charm spells being that it is identical in function just with weaker conditions, which is appropriate at level 3.
So reading over the Stone Rune:
When a creature you can see ends its turn within 30 feet of you, you can use your reaction to invoke the rune and force the creature to make a Wisdom saving throw. Unless the save succeeds, the creature is charmed by you for 1 minute. While charmed in this way, the creature has a speed of 0 and is incapacitated, descending into a dreamy stupor. The creature repeats the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on a success. Once you invoke this rune, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.
It doesn't state that if you hit the creature the effect ends, but I wanted to confirm that if I hit the incapacitated creature will the rune effect end, or will it stay incapacitated?
Hmm, nope. Hit it as much as you want.
In the Unearthed Arcana version of the Rune Knight, invoking the Stone Rune worked a little differently. They didn't get to re-roll the save on subsequent turns to try and snap out of it, but the effect would end once they took damage or someone used their action to shake them out of their stupor. In practice, this meant that invoking the rune basically just gave the party one easy hit against them, or they could just leave them alone and hope none of the other enemies would shake them out of it. In the final version, the only way for them to come out of it is if the 1 minute passes, or they make the save on a subsequent turn. I started playing a Rune Knight when it was still UA and switched to the official version when Tasha's was released. The official version of the Stone rune definitely plays better. If they fail the first save you're basically guaranteed a full round of them being easy to hit, unless another enemy has the ability to end a charm effect, like Greater Restoration. I prefer the flat 120' Darkvision too, in the UA version you got either 60' or if you already had Darkvision you got +30'.
I read from this, "Unless the save succeeds, the creature is charmed by you for 1 minute. While charmed in this way, the creature has a speed of 0 and is incapacitated, descending into a dreamy stupor. "
They specifically say Charmed, twice - not another condition that could match (not asleep, stunned, frightened) or any other non-condition word. Yet even though they say charmed,... the charmed condition is basically negated because the target gets incapacitated:
But per the other spell that provides the charmed condition:
The 5th level Dominate Person spell also charms you, and it allows for Wisdom saving throws on each turn, and when the target takes damage. "...Each time the target takes damage, it makes a new Wisdom saving throw against the spell. If the saving throw succeeds, the spell ends."
My point, a 3rd level class feature probably shouldn't be stronger than a 9th class level/5th level spell, and so the charm effect should be broken if the target takes damage. But that's not definitive or clear - just my interpretation.
I see what you mean about incapacitated, it would be this way because more creature are immune/resistant to charm than incapacitaion. It is to keep it balanced.
Comparing it to charm or dominate person are completely misleading because the only thing they have in common is the condition and not the entire rest of their effects. If it gained control of the monster in any way or didn't repeat the save every turn, then it could be comparable, but it is in fact weaker than either spell *for situations where you would use the spell.
It would be more accurate to compare this to a much weaker hold person than any charm spells being that it is identical in function just with weaker conditions, which is appropriate at level 3.