Anyone use these optional statistics in their game? If so, I'd appreciate detail on how you use them in a more meaningful way than "just another stat".
I'm tempted to introduce Sanity into my Faerun game as it transitions into a Faerun / Ravenloft hybrid (due to in-game events) and use it as kind of a hybrid between a stat and hit points. The idea is to make its initial value equal to the average between Wisdom and Charisma and introduce quite a few creatures and effects that deal Sanity damage, then require Sanity saving throws (stat bonus + proficiency bonus) after each long rest, the DC of which would vary from 10 to 25, depending how close the party is to the great evil that has cast Faerun into its cataclysmic state. A failure would result in a single minor insanity effect from the DMG. Subsequent failures would have progressive effects.
But I don't want to dominate the topic with this one idea. I just wanted to present it as an example and ask for thoughts, ideas, and any inspiration the community may have...
What say y'all?
;)
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PBP "Beregost Blues" - Dungeon Master of Gnome Slaying +5
I haven't just yet, many of my players are just now closing out their first year of D&D and I like to first teach the base game, then slowly work in more optional stuff for flavor.
One of the things I'm looking forward to is adding in sanity and, instead of just triggering it as the DM, having the players trigger it based on what would really be mind-bending for their characters. The social and shared element of it really adds fun if the players get the spirit of it. Even calling out each other's characters "Oh man, you totally need to make a sanity check!"
That makes it feel more shared and less arbitrary 'DM vs. Players' and also... frankly... the players tend to trigger these things far more than I would so it's actually fun to see what they see as a trigger for the characters!
I was playing around with a Warlock that I decided was insane. For flavor, the DM had me roll randomly on the Indefinite Madness chart. That one is fun because it's just Flaws, nothing that's actually negative mechanically, just roleplay flavor. The other two charts, Short-Term and Long-Term, have some serious consequences. The problem that I see with Madness in general is that it can get pretty debilitating. It's fun to throw in stuff for your players to roleplay, but to just add in, "hey, here's another bad thing that could happen, and there's absolutely no way for it to be good at all," can kind of be a bummer.
In a 5e SpellJammer game (doing an old 2e module) we didn't use the Madness chart per say, but Madness inducing event occurred in the story.
I played a Halfing Monk:WayOfShadow/Warlock:GreatOldOne:PactOfTheTome.
I started down the path after we started working for an archaeologist illithid and he left all his books on our ship. We decided that my halfing was going insane as he developed his Warlock powers and he decided it gave me Advantage on insanity checks because I was already crazy.
I'm actually JUST now starting a campaign with that (in a Cthulhu/Eldritch horror theme involving mind flayers).
I'd recommend picking up Out of the Abyss as a supplement for the DMG madness/insanity stuff (plus Underdark maps area always good for side quests)
As for the how to generate the sanity stat: I'm making it like the regular stats in the game as the DMG suggests (add another roll if you use the stat rolling method, an 11 if you use standard array, or 3 more points if you use the point buy). There's no reason a typical fighter/barbarian would be more susceptible to horror than a cleric, druid or bard. In fact, I'd argue a barbarian would be less susceptible since they can't really tell the difference between a mind flayer, vampire, or another humanoid ("they are all squishy and don't like it when I hit them with my axe") and a druid might be more susceptible since they would be horror stricken by a creature that is so completely alien/unnatural that they can't believe their gods/nature could allow such a thing to exist. But, if you're set on doing it that way, I'd suggest including Intelligence; thus doing an average of all three mental stats, since that would better determine their ability to comprehend what they are seeing/feeling.
As for the Sanity stat, I haven't found much use for it outside of adapting it for saving throws against fear/psychic attacks (I've dubbed these "horror attacks" for the purpose of my campaign). Things such as the mind flayer's Mind Blast, an intellect devourer's Devour Intellect attacks, or the Hadar/Fear/Phantasm spells. I've decided to let the players choose to be proficient in Sanity instead of Wisdom if they want (if their class normally has Wisdom as a proficiency). They can also use it as an alternate stat for Religion, Arcana, History, and Intimidation skill checks involving the horror aspect. You'll also have to figure out what to do with abilities like the Halfling's Brave trait, a Berserker Barbarian's Mindless Rage, the Bard's Counter Charm, the Monk's Stillness of Mind Paladin's Aura of Courage Hunter Ranger's Steel Will, etc... I'm allowing the Berserker to work as normal (they're still affected after the rage ends and it's kind of the whole point of the Berserker), leaving anything that causes advantage or automatically ends the condition to interact the same way with horror as it does with frightened, and anything that provides immunity to frightened gives advantage on horror checks (otherwise having a level 10 paladin basically makes the stat useless).
The best way I've thought about doing sanity checks is this: The first couple times they see an aberration-type monster (gibbering mouther, mind flayer, beholder, etc...) the creature is so absolutely alien to them that they have to make a Sanity saving throw when they first see it. On a failure, follow the madness rules in the DMG/Out of the Abyss - granting one level of madness (or more if it's truly horrifying - like an intellect devourer coming out of someone's skull after they died or a once thought-to-be dead friend attacking them as a vampire/other undead). If they succeed at the first saving throw, they have advantage against any sanity checks from horror attacks in that encounter (possibly even against saving throws from the attacks themselves), and if they fail the initial saving throw, they have disadvantage on any subsequent horror checks from attacks in that encounter. Think of it this way, someone is terrified of snakes and happens to come across one while walking. That snake then starts coming towards them. That fear started off badly, then got SO MUCH WORSE when the object of that fear started coming for them (in game terms, the intellect devourer just came out of your friend's skull and now it's attacking you in the same fashion).
I haven't just yet, many of my players are just now closing out their first year of D&D and I like to first teach the base game, then slowly work in more optional stuff for flavor.
One of the things I'm looking forward to is adding in sanity and, instead of just triggering it as the DM, having the players trigger it based on what would really be mind-bending for their characters. The social and shared element of it really adds fun if the players get the spirit of it. Even calling out each other's characters "Oh man, you totally need to make a sanity check!"
That makes it feel more shared and less arbitrary 'DM vs. Players' and also... frankly... the players tend to trigger these things far more than I would so it's actually fun to see what they see as a trigger for the characters!
This is an awesome idea, and I think I'll integrate this into my campaign (we haven't started yet as I'm making it a sandbox campaign with multiple progressive adventures (if the PCs come here first do this, if they come second do this, if they come third do this, etc...). We just got done playing Princes of the Apocalypse and that was too on the rails (and had no sense of urgency to get things done or set consequences if they didn't do something).
I was playing around with a Warlock that I decided was insane. For flavor, the DM had me roll randomly on the Indefinite Madness chart. That one is fun because it's just Flaws, nothing that's actually negative mechanically, just roleplay flavor. The other two charts, Short-Term and Long-Term, have some serious consequences. The problem that I see with Madness in general is that it can get pretty debilitating. It's fun to throw in stuff for your players to roleplay, but to just add in, "hey, here's another bad thing that could happen, and there's absolutely no way for it to be good at all," can kind of be a bummer.
I mean, you could always have the intelligent bad guys be shaken when they notice that your PCs are basically ignoring things that have normally horrified simpler targets. Perhaps that Mind Flayer has disadvantage with it's mind blast attacks because of its fear that it's not the biggest bully on the playground. Maybe the vampire that was unsuccessful with its charm is more likely to run away or doesn't try to charm another target. Maybe a creature can't use a reaction (or a legendary action) on the turn of a person who succeeded on a sanity saving throw, because it is wary of that creature.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I'd recommend picking up Out of the Abyss as a supplement for the DMG madness/insanity stuff (plus Underdark maps area always good for side quests)
I've got OotA, but I haven't done much with it. Do you recall where, in the book, the content on madness/insanity is found?
Regarding the Sanity stat I'm considering implementing, and how it relates to the DMG recommendations on use, keep in mind the DMG is assuming you're using the Sanity and / or Honor stats beginning at character creation. In my case, I'm considering introducing Sanity as a new stat to existing characters whose personal attributes are already well determined. It wouldn't make much sense for it to be random.
For my purposes, I'm viewing sanity more as a mental / personal fortitude reflected by a combination of understanding / mental grasp on reality (Wisdom) and personal force of character (Charisma). If anything, high intellect (Intelligence) would be inversely proportional to Sanity.
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PBP "Beregost Blues" - Dungeon Master of Gnome Slaying +5
I've got OotA, but I haven't done much with it. Do you recall where, in the book, the content on madness/insanity is found?
Regarding the Sanity stat I'm considering implementing, and how it relates to the DMG recommendations on use, keep in mind the DMG is assuming you're using the Sanity and / or Honor stats beginning at character creation. In my case, I'm considering introducing Sanity as a new stat to existing characters whose personal attributes are already well determined. It wouldn't make much sense for it to be random.
For my purposes, I'm viewing sanity more as a mental / personal fortitude reflected by a combination of understanding / mental grasp on reality (Wisdom) and personal force of character (Charisma). If anything, high intellect (Intelligence) would be inversely proportional to Sanity.
The Madness rules can be found on page 21 of OotA and each Demon Lord has a permanent madness that is associated with it and its lair that you can adapt as needed. I'm using some of the Juiblex and Zuggtmoy insanity tables for the Mind Flayer/Eldritch Horror themes. I'm also adapting some 4e monsters like Skull Lords, Thoon Hulks, and Star Spawns, but that's not why you called.
I'd argue that Intelligence is equally as (or possibly more) important than Wisdom for sanity. Think about actual fear: people are more terrified of the unknown. It's why darkness is scarier than light, because we can't see in the dark. Dwarves/Drow/etc... wouldn't have the same fear of the darkness that humans would, because they can see just fine. People who are afraid of something only get over said fear because they learn not to be afraid; like children who are afraid of monsters in their closet learn that there are no such things as monsters. A high intellect means you are more educated and likely already know about things that others wouldn't. A wizard has probably researched fantastical monsters in their studies. Hell, they've probably summoned one or two things that would drive others insane using arcane or religious rituals (or "a friend" has if you asked them about it).
Another option you could think about would be averaging Constitution and Charisma (have it be a combination of strength of body and force of will) and just ignoring Int and Wis altogether (since we've shown that you can argue either way on both Intelligence and Wisdom - but both agree that Charisma is important)
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Don't know, I see always the Wisdom saving throw as the one to use in madness/sanity case.
That's because Wisdom (or Willpower) has always been the go-to stat for saving throws for magical effects (well for 3e+, 2e- was kinda weird with saves). But, when you are implementing a Sanity stat, that kinda goes bye-bye.
I'm sticking with my assertion that averaging Con/Cha (if you are going to do averages) is the way to go.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I played a Warlock that slowly turned insane over the course of our campaign (hidden from other players) due to a backstory fiendish pact . As I would gain percentage of 'insanity', I would roll a perception check on reality increasingly often when performing actions/decisions, to see if I had to substitute with dark, outlandish, or incomprehensible behavior.
The other players had no idea why I would sometimes fall apart and go nuts, until it became much more regular and was uncovered as part of our campaign. The trick is to not just act out some "crazy guy" stereotype, but choose a handful of dementia and slowly start to change the way the character views their surroundings/interactions.
I've got OotA, but I haven't done much with it. Do you recall where, in the book, the content on madness/insanity is found?
Regarding the Sanity stat I'm considering implementing, and how it relates to the DMG recommendations on use, keep in mind the DMG is assuming you're using the Sanity and / or Honor stats beginning at character creation. In my case, I'm considering introducing Sanity as a new stat to existing characters whose personal attributes are already well determined. It wouldn't make much sense for it to be random.
For my purposes, I'm viewing sanity more as a mental / personal fortitude reflected by a combination of understanding / mental grasp on reality (Wisdom) and personal force of character (Charisma). If anything, high intellect (Intelligence) would be inversely proportional to Sanity.
The Madness rules can be found on page 21 of OotA and each Demon Lord has a permanent madness that is associated with it and its lair that you can adapt as needed. I'm using some of the Juiblex and Zuggtmoy insanity tables for the Mind Flayer/Eldritch Horror themes. I'm also adapting some 4e monsters like Skull Lords, Thoon Hulks, and Star Spawns, but that's not why you called.
I'd argue that Intelligence is equally as (or possibly more) important than Wisdom for sanity. Think about actual fear: people are more terrified of the unknown. It's why darkness is scarier than light, because we can't see in the dark. Dwarves/Drow/etc... wouldn't have the same fear of the darkness that humans would, because they can see just fine. People who are afraid of something only get over said fear because they learn not to be afraid; like children who are afraid of monsters in their closet learn that there are no such things as monsters. A high intellect means you are more educated and likely already know about things that others wouldn't. A wizard has probably researched fantastical monsters in their studies. Hell, they've probably summoned one or two things that would drive others insane using arcane or religious rituals (or "a friend" has if you asked them about it).
Another option you could think about would be averaging Constitution and Charisma (have it be a combination of strength of body and force of will) and just ignoring Int and Wis altogether (since we've shown that you can argue either way on both Intelligence and Wisdom - but both agree that Charisma is important)
Intelligence influences sanity? Maybe. It makes sense, but I'm terrified of ants and spiders even though I know perfectly well there's no good reason for me to be. I've taken multiple logic classes (and done well), but I'm paranoid. On the other hand, intellect probably isn't inversely proportional to sanity either--that's imagination, but only to a point.
Nevertheless, for game purposes, I would calculate Sanity as the average of Intelligence and Will; how to calculate Will is another matter entirely. As I type this, it occurs to me that perhaps Will is what you're looking for, and not Sanity.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
I've been in a campaign with the Sanity rule, and it felt like it was just there. It just sat there, and while it was used, it wasn't well executed in its use. That campaign was short lived, but I doubt that the Sanity score would have seen much more use, and in fact, its use would likely decline as the campaign went on, had it done so. As a result of this poor experience, the use of the Sanity score in a game results in me being unlikely to want to participate in it, even though I'm sure that it was merely the poor implementation.
On the other hand, Honour is something I'd love to use in an oriental setting.
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I've got OotA, but I haven't done much with it. Do you recall where, in the book, the content on madness/insanity is found?
Regarding the Sanity stat I'm considering implementing, and how it relates to the DMG recommendations on use, keep in mind the DMG is assuming you're using the Sanity and / or Honor stats beginning at character creation. In my case, I'm considering introducing Sanity as a new stat to existing characters whose personal attributes are already well determined. It wouldn't make much sense for it to be random.
For my purposes, I'm viewing sanity more as a mental / personal fortitude reflected by a combination of understanding / mental grasp on reality (Wisdom) and personal force of character (Charisma). If anything, high intellect (Intelligence) would be inversely proportional to Sanity.
The Madness rules can be found on page 21 of OotA and each Demon Lord has a permanent madness that is associated with it and its lair that you can adapt as needed. I'm using some of the Juiblex and Zuggtmoy insanity tables for the Mind Flayer/Eldritch Horror themes. I'm also adapting some 4e monsters like Skull Lords, Thoon Hulks, and Star Spawns, but that's not why you called.
I'd argue that Intelligence is equally as (or possibly more) important than Wisdom for sanity. Think about actual fear: people are more terrified of the unknown. It's why darkness is scarier than light, because we can't see in the dark. Dwarves/Drow/etc... wouldn't have the same fear of the darkness that humans would, because they can see just fine. People who are afraid of something only get over said fear because they learn not to be afraid; like children who are afraid of monsters in their closet learn that there are no such things as monsters. A high intellect means you are more educated and likely already know about things that others wouldn't. A wizard has probably researched fantastical monsters in their studies. Hell, they've probably summoned one or two things that would drive others insane using arcane or religious rituals (or "a friend" has if you asked them about it).
Another option you could think about would be averaging Constitution and Charisma (have it be a combination of strength of body and force of will) and just ignoring Int and Wis altogether (since we've shown that you can argue either way on both Intelligence and Wisdom - but both agree that Charisma is important)
Intelligence influences sanity? Maybe. It makes sense, but I'm terrified of ants and spiders even though I know perfectly well there's no good reason for me to be. I've taken multiple logic classes (and done well), but I'm paranoid. On the other hand, intellect probably isn't inversely proportional to sanity either--that's imagination, but only to a point.
Nevertheless, for game purposes, I would calculate Sanity as the average of Intelligence and Will; how to calculate Will is another matter entirely. As I type this, it occurs to me that perhaps Will is what you're looking for, and not Sanity.
But, being scared of something and being driven insane by it are two different things. I'm scared of snakes, but they don't cause me to go insane (scream like a little girl, yes... go insane, no). Insanity, at least in things like Cthulhu-inspired campaigns, is the idea of being so affected by something you simply can't comprehend that a piece of your mind literally breaks. As much as you hate bugs and as much as I hate snakes, if we were around them enough, we would eventually stop being afraid of them (I'd never willingly take part in that, but it's been proven to happen). Intelligence is knowledge, and the more knowledgeable you are about the world, the more you'll know about alien beings like Mind Flayers, Beholders, Gibbering Mouthers, etc... or at least the less you'll be affected by discovering them.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
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Anyone use these optional statistics in their game? If so, I'd appreciate detail on how you use them in a more meaningful way than "just another stat".
I'm tempted to introduce Sanity into my Faerun game as it transitions into a Faerun / Ravenloft hybrid (due to in-game events) and use it as kind of a hybrid between a stat and hit points. The idea is to make its initial value equal to the average between Wisdom and Charisma and introduce quite a few creatures and effects that deal Sanity damage, then require Sanity saving throws (stat bonus + proficiency bonus) after each long rest, the DC of which would vary from 10 to 25, depending how close the party is to the great evil that has cast Faerun into its cataclysmic state. A failure would result in a single minor insanity effect from the DMG. Subsequent failures would have progressive effects.
But I don't want to dominate the topic with this one idea. I just wanted to present it as an example and ask for thoughts, ideas, and any inspiration the community may have...
What say y'all?
;)
I played once with the madness rule, and it was fun seeing characters giong mad.
I guess horror shoul be fun too.
I haven't just yet, many of my players are just now closing out their first year of D&D and I like to first teach the base game, then slowly work in more optional stuff for flavor.
One of the things I'm looking forward to is adding in sanity and, instead of just triggering it as the DM, having the players trigger it based on what would really be mind-bending for their characters. The social and shared element of it really adds fun if the players get the spirit of it. Even calling out each other's characters "Oh man, you totally need to make a sanity check!"
That makes it feel more shared and less arbitrary 'DM vs. Players' and also... frankly... the players tend to trigger these things far more than I would so it's actually fun to see what they see as a trigger for the characters!
I was playing around with a Warlock that I decided was insane. For flavor, the DM had me roll randomly on the Indefinite Madness chart. That one is fun because it's just Flaws, nothing that's actually negative mechanically, just roleplay flavor. The other two charts, Short-Term and Long-Term, have some serious consequences. The problem that I see with Madness in general is that it can get pretty debilitating. It's fun to throw in stuff for your players to roleplay, but to just add in, "hey, here's another bad thing that could happen, and there's absolutely no way for it to be good at all," can kind of be a bummer.
In a 5e SpellJammer game (doing an old 2e module) we didn't use the Madness chart per say, but Madness inducing event occurred in the story.
I played a Halfing Monk:WayOfShadow/Warlock:GreatOldOne:PactOfTheTome.
I started down the path after we started working for an archaeologist illithid and he left all his books on our ship. We decided that my halfing was going insane as he developed his Warlock powers and he decided it gave me Advantage on insanity checks because I was already crazy.
I'm actually JUST now starting a campaign with that (in a Cthulhu/Eldritch horror theme involving mind flayers).
I'd recommend picking up Out of the Abyss as a supplement for the DMG madness/insanity stuff (plus Underdark maps area always good for side quests)
As for the how to generate the sanity stat: I'm making it like the regular stats in the game as the DMG suggests (add another roll if you use the stat rolling method, an 11 if you use standard array, or 3 more points if you use the point buy). There's no reason a typical fighter/barbarian would be more susceptible to horror than a cleric, druid or bard. In fact, I'd argue a barbarian would be less susceptible since they can't really tell the difference between a mind flayer, vampire, or another humanoid ("they are all squishy and don't like it when I hit them with my axe") and a druid might be more susceptible since they would be horror stricken by a creature that is so completely alien/unnatural that they can't believe their gods/nature could allow such a thing to exist. But, if you're set on doing it that way, I'd suggest including Intelligence; thus doing an average of all three mental stats, since that would better determine their ability to comprehend what they are seeing/feeling.
As for the Sanity stat, I haven't found much use for it outside of adapting it for saving throws against fear/psychic attacks (I've dubbed these "horror attacks" for the purpose of my campaign). Things such as the mind flayer's Mind Blast, an intellect devourer's Devour Intellect attacks, or the Hadar/Fear/Phantasm spells. I've decided to let the players choose to be proficient in Sanity instead of Wisdom if they want (if their class normally has Wisdom as a proficiency). They can also use it as an alternate stat for Religion, Arcana, History, and Intimidation skill checks involving the horror aspect. You'll also have to figure out what to do with abilities like the Halfling's Brave trait, a Berserker Barbarian's Mindless Rage, the Bard's Counter Charm, the Monk's Stillness of Mind Paladin's Aura of Courage Hunter Ranger's Steel Will, etc... I'm allowing the Berserker to work as normal (they're still affected after the rage ends and it's kind of the whole point of the Berserker), leaving anything that causes advantage or automatically ends the condition to interact the same way with horror as it does with frightened, and anything that provides immunity to frightened gives advantage on horror checks (otherwise having a level 10 paladin basically makes the stat useless).
The best way I've thought about doing sanity checks is this: The first couple times they see an aberration-type monster (gibbering mouther, mind flayer, beholder, etc...) the creature is so absolutely alien to them that they have to make a Sanity saving throw when they first see it. On a failure, follow the madness rules in the DMG/Out of the Abyss - granting one level of madness (or more if it's truly horrifying - like an intellect devourer coming out of someone's skull after they died or a once thought-to-be dead friend attacking them as a vampire/other undead). If they succeed at the first saving throw, they have advantage against any sanity checks from horror attacks in that encounter (possibly even against saving throws from the attacks themselves), and if they fail the initial saving throw, they have disadvantage on any subsequent horror checks from attacks in that encounter. Think of it this way, someone is terrified of snakes and happens to come across one while walking. That snake then starts coming towards them. That fear started off badly, then got SO MUCH WORSE when the object of that fear started coming for them (in game terms, the intellect devourer just came out of your friend's skull and now it's attacking you in the same fashion).
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Regarding the Sanity stat I'm considering implementing, and how it relates to the DMG recommendations on use, keep in mind the DMG is assuming you're using the Sanity and / or Honor stats beginning at character creation. In my case, I'm considering introducing Sanity as a new stat to existing characters whose personal attributes are already well determined. It wouldn't make much sense for it to be random.
For my purposes, I'm viewing sanity more as a mental / personal fortitude reflected by a combination of understanding / mental grasp on reality (Wisdom) and personal force of character (Charisma). If anything, high intellect (Intelligence) would be inversely proportional to Sanity.
I'd argue that Intelligence is equally as (or possibly more) important than Wisdom for sanity. Think about actual fear: people are more terrified of the unknown. It's why darkness is scarier than light, because we can't see in the dark. Dwarves/Drow/etc... wouldn't have the same fear of the darkness that humans would, because they can see just fine. People who are afraid of something only get over said fear because they learn not to be afraid; like children who are afraid of monsters in their closet learn that there are no such things as monsters. A high intellect means you are more educated and likely already know about things that others wouldn't. A wizard has probably researched fantastical monsters in their studies. Hell, they've probably summoned one or two things that would drive others insane using arcane or religious rituals (or "a friend" has if you asked them about it).
Another option you could think about would be averaging Constitution and Charisma (have it be a combination of strength of body and force of will) and just ignoring Int and Wis altogether (since we've shown that you can argue either way on both Intelligence and Wisdom - but both agree that Charisma is important)
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Don't know, I see always the Wisdom saving throw as the one to use in madness/sanity case.
I'm sticking with my assertion that averaging Con/Cha (if you are going to do averages) is the way to go.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I played a Warlock that slowly turned insane over the course of our campaign (hidden from other players) due to a backstory fiendish pact . As I would gain percentage of 'insanity', I would roll a perception check on reality increasingly often when performing actions/decisions, to see if I had to substitute with dark, outlandish, or incomprehensible behavior.
The other players had no idea why I would sometimes fall apart and go nuts, until it became much more regular and was uncovered as part of our campaign. The trick is to not just act out some "crazy guy" stereotype, but choose a handful of dementia and slowly start to change the way the character views their surroundings/interactions.
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I've been in a campaign with the Sanity rule, and it felt like it was just there. It just sat there, and while it was used, it wasn't well executed in its use. That campaign was short lived, but I doubt that the Sanity score would have seen much more use, and in fact, its use would likely decline as the campaign went on, had it done so. As a result of this poor experience, the use of the Sanity score in a game results in me being unlikely to want to participate in it, even though I'm sure that it was merely the poor implementation.
On the other hand, Honour is something I'd love to use in an oriental setting.
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But, being scared of something and being driven insane by it are two different things. I'm scared of snakes, but they don't cause me to go insane (scream like a little girl, yes... go insane, no). Insanity, at least in things like Cthulhu-inspired campaigns, is the idea of being so affected by something you simply can't comprehend that a piece of your mind literally breaks. As much as you hate bugs and as much as I hate snakes, if we were around them enough, we would eventually stop being afraid of them (I'd never willingly take part in that, but it's been proven to happen). Intelligence is knowledge, and the more knowledgeable you are about the world, the more you'll know about alien beings like Mind Flayers, Beholders, Gibbering Mouthers, etc... or at least the less you'll be affected by discovering them.
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.