Sorry if I reopen a possibly closed topic, but: if you have the extra attack feature, use one of them for an unarmed or monk weapon attack, replace the second one with a radiant bolt, can you replace the bonus action unarmed strike with a radiant bolt?
Or phrased differently: does the bonus action attack granted by the martial arts feature count as being part of the attack action, since it's coupled to it?
Thanks in advance for any tips!
The Unarmed Strike bonus action is granting you one unarmed strike. No wording of the ability says that this can be replaced.
Sorry if I reopen a possibly closed topic, but: if you have the extra attack feature, use one of them for an unarmed or monk weapon attack, replace the second one with a radiant bolt, can you replace the bonus action unarmed strike with a radiant bolt?
Or phrased differently: does the bonus action attack granted by the martial arts feature count as being part of the attack action, since it's coupled to it?
Thanks in advance for any tips!
You could spend 1 Ki point and “flurry of blows” radiant sun bolt, if radiant sun bolt was part of the attack action. But the regular “free” BA attack is an unarmed strike.
The bonus action is not “coupled” with the attack action and not part of it, it’s its own separate action. Taking the attack action is just a prerequisite to get the BA attack.
"When you take the Attack action, you can spend 1 ki point to make the special attack twice as a bonus action and you can use this attack as any of the attacks using the Extra Attack feature."
Does this mean that I can make a total of 3 attacks with Radiant Sun Bolt?
Attack action: 1 attack using RSB
Use 1 Ki point to make the special attack twice as a bonus action: 2 more attacks using RSB
"When you take the Attack action, you can spend 1 ki point to make the special attack twice as a bonus action and you can use this attack as any of the attacks using the Extra Attack feature."
Does this mean that I can make a total of 3 attacks with Radiant Sun Bolt?
Attack action: 1 attack using RSB
Use 1 Ki point to make the special attack twice as a bonus action: 2 more attacks using RSB
Basically it’s Flurry of Blows but with RSB. Edit: and when you gain the extra attack feature at monk level 5 you can make 4 attacks (at least one of the two Attack action attacks has to be RSB)
"When you take the Attack action, you can spend 1 ki point to make the special attack twice as a bonus action and you can use this attack as any of the attacks using the Extra Attack feature."
Does this mean that I can make a total of 3 attacks with Radiant Sun Bolt?
Attack action: 1 attack using RSB
Use 1 Ki point to make the special attack twice as a bonus action: 2 more attacks using RSB
Total: 3 attacks and loss of 1 Ki point
Sure can. Our level-3 campaign's sidekick, an Awakened Shrub Sun Soul Monk, was able to shoot 3 beams of sunlight in a turn :D
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
I also have a question about the mechanics for a build I'm working on.
A bonus action is "trigger dependant", meaning you can perform it when the criteria has been met, regardless of if it's during movement or your action.
As previously stated in this thread the Sun Soul Monk's Radiant Bolt says:
When you take the Attack action on your turn and use this special attack as part of it, you can spend 1 ki point to make the special attack twice as a bonus action.
So my strategy, once I have the extra attack, is to:
"Take the Attack Action", declare I'm attacking,
"Use this special attack as part of it", first attack is one of the bolts,
THE REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN MET, so now I can spend 1 Ki point and perform 2 more Bolts as a bonus action,
Finish the Attack Action, move in and use the second attack to Shove the enemy to knock them prone and give my melee allies advantage before backing away again (Mobile Feat)
As far as I can tell, the rules allow me to do this and I think it's great. I haven't seen any talk about doing it though so I thought I'd see what the hive mind thinks.
So my strategy, once I have the extra attack, is to:
"Take the Attack Action", declare I'm attacking,
"Use this special attack as part of it", first attack is one of the bolts,
THE REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN MET, so now I can spend 1 Ki point and perform 2 more Bolts as a bonus action,
Finish the Attack Action, move in and use the second attack to Shove the enemy to knock them prone and give my melee allies advantage before backing away again (Mobile Feat)
You'll get into the same issues as there are with the Shield Master feat (which there is a long thread about if you're interested).
There isn't a clear consensus on what the RAW comes out as but the RAI is quite clear from the entry in the SAC. In short, I wouldn't expect it to work but it's definitely an "ask your DM" type of situation.
So my strategy, once I have the extra attack, is to:
"Take the Attack Action", declare I'm attacking,
"Use this special attack as part of it", first attack is one of the bolts,
THE REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN MET, so now I can spend 1 Ki point and perform 2 more Bolts as a bonus action,
Finish the Attack Action, move in and use the second attack to Shove the enemy to knock them prone and give my melee allies advantage before backing away again (Mobile Feat)
You'll get into the same issues as there are with the Shield Master feat (which there is a long thread about if you're interested).
There isn't a clear consensus on what the RAW comes out as but the RAI is quite clear from the entry in the SAC. In short, I wouldn't expect it to work but it's definitely an "ask your DM" type of situation.
I agree that the wording makes it ambiguous and it's definitely "one for the DM". One thing I would like to point out, however, is that the Sage Advice link talks about using Shield Master before taking the attack action, I would argue that if you have the Extra Attack feature and have made one of those attacks already then you have taken the Attack Action and so could perform your bonus action between your attacks.
So my strategy, once I have the extra attack, is to:
"Take the Attack Action", declare I'm attacking,
"Use this special attack as part of it", first attack is one of the bolts,
THE REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN MET, so now I can spend 1 Ki point and perform 2 more Bolts as a bonus action,
Finish the Attack Action, move in and use the second attack to Shove the enemy to knock them prone and give my melee allies advantage before backing away again (Mobile Feat)
You'll get into the same issues as there are with the Shield Master feat (which there is a long thread about if you're interested).
There isn't a clear consensus on what the RAW comes out as but the RAI is quite clear from the entry in the SAC. In short, I wouldn't expect it to work but it's definitely an "ask your DM" type of situation.
I agree that the wording makes it ambiguous and it's definitely "one for the DM". One thing I would like to point out, however, is that the Sage Advice link talks about using Shield Master before taking the attack action, I would argue that if you have the Extra Attack feature and have made one of those attacks already then you have taken the Attack Action and so could perform your bonus action between your attacks.
Again, ambiguous, but interesting tactics-wise.
Actually, after the suggestion to look into Shield Master, I uncovered this tweet from Crawford:
No general rule allows you to insert a bonus action between attacks in a single action. You can interrupt a multiple-attack action with a bonus action/reaction only if the trigger of the bonus action/reaction is an attack, rather than the action.
As DM, I allow the bonus action of Shield Master to happen after you make at least one attack with the Attack action, since making one attack fulfills the action's basic definition (PH, 192). If you have Extra Attack, you decide which of the attacks the bonus action follows. #DnD
So yeah, I'd say the tactics stand ... DM permitting
That is not true. Extra attack from lvl 5 is NOT a bonus action. So you have regular attack with RSB. You then have extra attack with RSB. Then you have flurry of blows using RSB as a bonus action. This is 4 RSB’s and only one bonus action.
the second attack that counts as a bonus action is from martial arts. That is superseded by lvl 5 skill Extra Attack
That is not true. Extra attack from lvl 5 is NOT a bonus action. So you have regular attack with RSB. You then have extra attack with RSB. Then you have flurry of blows using RSB as a bonus action. This is 4 RSB’s and only one bonus action.
the second attack that counts as a bonus action is from martial arts. That is superseded by lvl 5 skill Extra Attack
No Farling is correct. The part that you are missing is that doing two sun bolts with you bonus action is its own separate bonus action, it is NOT a use of Flurry of Blows.
The Unarmed Strike bonus action is granting you one unarmed strike. No wording of the ability says that this can be replaced.
Can a Spellcaster use counter spell to stop your Radiant Sun Bolt? If so, would that stop all attacks or just one?
Counterspell only works on spells.
The description says it's a ranged spell attack.
Yes, because it's not a weapon attack. But it still isn't an attack made by casting a spell, so Counterspell won't work against it.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Yea but it still isn't a spell, it falls in the "spell-like abilities" category.
The Searing Arc Strike though could be counterspelled as that is a casting of Burning Hands.
You could spend 1 Ki point and “flurry of blows” radiant sun bolt, if radiant sun bolt was part of the attack action. But the regular “free” BA attack is an unarmed strike.
The bonus action is not “coupled” with the attack action and not part of it, it’s its own separate action. Taking the attack action is just a prerequisite to get the BA attack.
"When you take the Attack action, you can spend 1 ki point to make the special attack twice as a bonus action and you can use this attack as any of the attacks using the Extra Attack feature."
Does this mean that I can make a total of 3 attacks with Radiant Sun Bolt?
Attack action: 1 attack using RSB
Use 1 Ki point to make the special attack twice as a bonus action: 2 more attacks using RSB
Total: 3 attacks and loss of 1 Ki point
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Basically it’s Flurry of Blows but with RSB. Edit: and when you gain the extra attack feature at monk level 5 you can make 4 attacks (at least one of the two Attack action attacks has to be RSB)
Sure can. Our level-3 campaign's sidekick, an Awakened Shrub Sun Soul Monk, was able to shoot 3 beams of sunlight in a turn :D
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
I also have a question about the mechanics for a build I'm working on.
A bonus action is "trigger dependant", meaning you can perform it when the criteria has been met, regardless of if it's during movement or your action.
As previously stated in this thread the Sun Soul Monk's Radiant Bolt says:
So my strategy, once I have the extra attack, is to:
As far as I can tell, the rules allow me to do this and I think it's great. I haven't seen any talk about doing it though so I thought I'd see what the hive mind thinks.
You'll get into the same issues as there are with the Shield Master feat (which there is a long thread about if you're interested).
There isn't a clear consensus on what the RAW comes out as but the RAI is quite clear from the entry in the SAC. In short, I wouldn't expect it to work but it's definitely an "ask your DM" type of situation.
I agree that the wording makes it ambiguous and it's definitely "one for the DM". One thing I would like to point out, however, is that the Sage Advice link talks about using Shield Master before taking the attack action, I would argue that if you have the Extra Attack feature and have made one of those attacks already then you have taken the Attack Action and so could perform your bonus action between your attacks.
Again, ambiguous, but interesting tactics-wise.
Actually, after the suggestion to look into Shield Master, I uncovered this tweet from Crawford:
As well as this one:
You are not including the bonus attack from "Extra Attack" at lvl 5. With that and flurry of blows you could feasibly attack with 4 sun bolts.
Your bonus action has already been used to do Sun Bolt twice, so it isn't available for Flurry of Blows.
That is not true. Extra attack from lvl 5 is NOT a bonus action. So you have regular attack with RSB. You then have extra attack with RSB. Then you have flurry of blows using RSB as a bonus action. This is 4 RSB’s and only one bonus action.
the second attack that counts as a bonus action is from martial arts. That is superseded by lvl 5 skill Extra Attack
No Farling is correct. The part that you are missing is that doing two sun bolts with you bonus action is its own separate bonus action, it is NOT a use of Flurry of Blows.