So, the rules for Ritual Caster allow you to have a book that you can write ritual spells in and cast, but only as rituals.
I had an idea for a War Magic wizard/Artillerist artificer build that was based around utility.
My question is "If you are a lvl 2 wizard and only want the first subclass feature you get at 2nd level, can you inscribe higher level spells in that book as long as they are rituals and still cast them, or is that only available to players with the Ritual Caster feat?'
If I've understood your question correctly, then I think what you are asking is whether the Ritual Caster feat can allow you to learn rituals of a higher level than two levels in Wizard would do, in which case the answer is that Ritual Caster is superior in that respect.
A Wizard can only normally learn spells of a level that they can cast, so to get higher level rituals into your spellbook you need to gain more levels in Wizard; i.e- you can't get 2nd-level rituals until you have three levels in Wizard.
The Ritual Caster feat meanwhile is based solely on your character level, so the level of ritual you can learn is not affected in any way by multiclassing. The only downside really is that other than the first two, you must always pay gold and spend downtime to inscribe new rituals (whereas a Wizard gets two spells for free at each level and only has to inscribe additional ones).
So if I wanted Ritual spells higher than level 1, I'd need to take the feat even if they were spells I 'd have access to as an artificer or I'd just have to have them prepped as an artificer.
So if I wanted Ritual spells higher than level 1, I'd need to take the feat even if they were spells I 'd have access to as an artificer or I'd just have to have them prepped as an artificer.
Strictly speaking yes, as you have separate Artificer spells and Wizard spells and they don't really interact between your two spellcasting features.
That's the rules as written answer though, since this is the Rules & Game Mechanics forum, but in practice it's a classic example of an "ask your DM" type situation; they might be willing to let you copy Artificer spells into your spellbook, even though they're of a higher level than you can normally transcribe.
Artificers also have the ritual casting feature, you just have to have them prepared. You are just looking to be able to cast any ritual spell from your book like a Wizard can or like the Ritual Caster feat.
Personally, I would let you add ritual (and ONLY ritual) spells to your Wizard book of a level that you can prepare (not spell slots). But then again, this is a strictly better feature than the Artificer gets (having to prepare) for just a two level dip, which is already pretty powerful for an Artificer, and saves you an ASI/Feat, so I might not allow it.
Here's the trick to adding ritual spells you know as an Artificer... you can take some time and money to craft any spells you have prepared into spell scrolls, and then you can use those spell scrolls to copy into your ritual book and have them always-ready that way.
Now that I'm looking for it, I don't see a rule specific to ritual casting but have always assumed the same rule as for spell scrolls would apply to trying to ritual cast a spell that is a higher level than you could normally manage:
'If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level.'
This seems reasonable to me. Being able to cast high level ritual spells with only 2 levels in a spell casting class and not having to make any check whatsoever is absolutely not something I'd want to allow at my table. If you want to be a L2 Spell Caster with the feat + L10 Any other class without spells, or have no levels in a spell casting class and just take the feat, and then ritual cast a level 6 spell that you copied into your book, you better have arcana proficiency and be able to make that DC 16 check.
Just because the feat lets you put the spell in your book doesn't necessarily mean your DM will allow you to cast it.
Both Wizard and Ritual Caster are class restricted. Wizard is only wizard spells, and while technically it lets you cast any wizard spell, regardless of level, it must be in your book, which ends up meaning only of a level you can cast as a Wizard. You get it FIRST level, not 2nd, so you can learn all the first level Ritual Wizard spells for just a single level of Wizard, not 2.
Ritual caster requires the spell be of the class you selected when you pick Ritual caster and a limit of the half your caster level. In most ways it is better than multiclassing.
There are about 35 odd ritual spells, and wizards get more than half of them. They are usually the best choice for the class, but double check that. If you want Beast Sense or Purify Food and Drink, then do not go Wizard.
The only option for 'rituals from any class' is warlock pact of the tome.
The rituals you would get with ritual caster (wizard) that are not already on the artificer list are: Comprehend Languages, Contact Other Plane, Drawmij's Instant Summons, Feign Death, Find Familiar, Gentle Repose, Illusory Script, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Phantom Steed, Rary's Telepathic Bond, Tenser's Floating Disk, Unseen Servant. You also get level 2+ rituals earlier than an artificer would, and can ritual cast without having the spell prepared.
Whether access to those spells is worth a feat is dependent on party composition; it's an easy 'no' if the party already has a wizard, since for most of those spells there isn't a lot of value to multiple people knowing them, otherwise... maybe?
Honestly, I cannot see someone taking Wizard for the Rituals. The limit to Wizard spells of having the spell in your spellbook is too harsh.
That said taking a single level of Wizard for an Artificer makes a lot of sense.
You get 3 extra cantrips, the ability to learn ALL the first level wizard spells, starting with 6 free ones, extra spells prepared = to your int modifier +1 (wizard level of 1), you get arcane recovery (1 free first level spell spell slot back), and most importantly, your wizard level counts as TWO artificer levels for spell slots. You get your 2nd level spell slot when you hit Artificer 3rd (character 4) rather than Artificer 5 (character 5) for a pure Artificer.
Even a 2nd level could be worth it (more spell slots boost, and the arcane tradition can give you things like portents or the Abjuration Ward.)
At 20th level you have a 6th level slot, very valuable for upcasting. But I am not sure it makes sense if you go all the way to 20th level, the Soul of Artifice is one of the better capstone abilities - reaction to avoid death and a plus 6 bonus to all saves (assuming you are not an idiot and have attuned to 6 magic items).
Can a level 1 artificer/5 wizard cast the Identify spell provided by the artificer spell list be cast by the wizard as a ritual without preparing it or does the wizard have to have the spell as well?
It has to be in his spell book to cast it as a ritual without preparing, and artificer does not provide a spell book.
The better question is whether they could copy spells they know as an artificer into their spell book.
They don't know any spells as an artificer. Any spell they have prepared as an artificer can be copied into the spellbook as usual for a wizard with prepared spells. Any wizard spell in the spellbook can be cast as a ritual by the wizard.
Can a level 1 artificer/5 wizard cast the Identify spell provided by the artificer spell list be cast by the wizard as a ritual without preparing it or does the wizard have to have the spell as well?
It has to be in his spell book to cast it as a ritual without preparing, and artificer does not provide a spell book.
The better question is whether they could copy spells they know as an artificer into their spell book.
They can, but they just have to turn them into Spell Scrolls first... I could see a DM hand-waving the whole thing and just letting the player copy directly into their book instead with the same Arcana roll required for the scroll plus the time/cost of drafting a scroll, but if you multiclass as a wizard into any prepared spell class you can basically give yourself all the low level ritual spells you want... assuming you have the gold and downtime.
They can, but they just have to turn them into Spell Scrolls first...
The rule you're missing is here, but you have to scroll down, as it's in the "Your Spellbook" blurb which I can't link directly into. Here's the text you're missing:
"If you lose your spellbook, you can use the same procedure to transcribe the spells that you have prepared into a new spellbook."
Technically, if your DM insists on absolute RAW, you can't edit an existing spellbook using this rule - you have to make a new one from scratch. But regardless of your DM being a stickler for that, you simply don't have to make any Spell Scrolls - which is good, because the core rules don't give you a way to make Spell Scrolls (you have to use an optional rule from Xanathar's).
They can, but they just have to turn them into Spell Scrolls first...
The rule you're missing is here, but you have to scroll down, as it's in the "Your Spellbook" blurb which I can't link directly into. Here's the text you're missing:
"If you lose your spellbook, you can use the same procedure to transcribe the spells that you have prepared into a new spellbook."
Technically, if your DM insists on absolute RAW, you can't edit an existing spellbook using this rule - you have to make a new one from scratch. But regardless of your DM being a stickler for that, you simply don't have to make any Spell Scrolls - which is good, because the core rules don't give you a way to make Spell Scrolls (you have to use an optional rule from Xanathar's).
Now that's interesting, since it just says "spells that you have prepared" and not specifically "wizard spells that you have prepared". I think the funny thing about that is it allows all kinds of shenanigans if you multiclass into a class that prepares their spells, but is functionally useless if you multiclass into a class where spells are just known.
(assuming you are not an idiot and have attuned to 6 magic items).
I don't know why, but this statement just makes me laugh.
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So, the rules for Ritual Caster allow you to have a book that you can write ritual spells in and cast, but only as rituals.
I had an idea for a War Magic wizard/Artillerist artificer build that was based around utility.
My question is "If you are a lvl 2 wizard and only want the first subclass feature you get at 2nd level, can you inscribe higher level spells in that book as long as they are rituals and still cast them, or is that only available to players with the Ritual Caster feat?'
If I've understood your question correctly, then I think what you are asking is whether the Ritual Caster feat can allow you to learn rituals of a higher level than two levels in Wizard would do, in which case the answer is that Ritual Caster is superior in that respect.
A Wizard can only normally learn spells of a level that they can cast, so to get higher level rituals into your spellbook you need to gain more levels in Wizard; i.e- you can't get 2nd-level rituals until you have three levels in Wizard.
The Ritual Caster feat meanwhile is based solely on your character level, so the level of ritual you can learn is not affected in any way by multiclassing. The only downside really is that other than the first two, you must always pay gold and spend downtime to inscribe new rituals (whereas a Wizard gets two spells for free at each level and only has to inscribe additional ones).
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So if I wanted Ritual spells higher than level 1, I'd need to take the feat even if they were spells I 'd have access to as an artificer or I'd just have to have them prepped as an artificer.
Oh well... thanks.
Strictly speaking yes, as you have separate Artificer spells and Wizard spells and they don't really interact between your two spellcasting features.
That's the rules as written answer though, since this is the Rules & Game Mechanics forum, but in practice it's a classic example of an "ask your DM" type situation; they might be willing to let you copy Artificer spells into your spellbook, even though they're of a higher level than you can normally transcribe.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
Artificers also have the ritual casting feature, you just have to have them prepared. You are just looking to be able to cast any ritual spell from your book like a Wizard can or like the Ritual Caster feat.
Personally, I would let you add ritual (and ONLY ritual) spells to your Wizard book of a level that you can prepare (not spell slots). But then again, this is a strictly better feature than the Artificer gets (having to prepare) for just a two level dip, which is already pretty powerful for an Artificer, and saves you an ASI/Feat, so I might not allow it.
Here's the trick to adding ritual spells you know as an Artificer... you can take some time and money to craft any spells you have prepared into spell scrolls, and then you can use those spell scrolls to copy into your ritual book and have them always-ready that way.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
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Now that I'm looking for it, I don't see a rule specific to ritual casting but have always assumed the same rule as for spell scrolls would apply to trying to ritual cast a spell that is a higher level than you could normally manage:
'If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level.'
This seems reasonable to me. Being able to cast high level ritual spells with only 2 levels in a spell casting class and not having to make any check whatsoever is absolutely not something I'd want to allow at my table.
If you want to be a L2 Spell Caster with the feat + L10 Any other class without spells, or have no levels in a spell casting class and just take the feat, and then ritual cast a level 6 spell that you copied into your book, you better have arcana proficiency and be able to make that DC 16 check.
Just because the feat lets you put the spell in your book doesn't necessarily mean your DM will allow you to cast it.
Both Wizard and Ritual Caster are class restricted. Wizard is only wizard spells, and while technically it lets you cast any wizard spell, regardless of level, it must be in your book, which ends up meaning only of a level you can cast as a Wizard. You get it FIRST level, not 2nd, so you can learn all the first level Ritual Wizard spells for just a single level of Wizard, not 2.
Ritual caster requires the spell be of the class you selected when you pick Ritual caster and a limit of the half your caster level. In most ways it is better than multiclassing.
There are about 35 odd ritual spells, and wizards get more than half of them. They are usually the best choice for the class, but double check that. If you want Beast Sense or Purify Food and Drink, then do not go Wizard.
The only option for 'rituals from any class' is warlock pact of the tome.
The rituals you would get with ritual caster (wizard) that are not already on the artificer list are: Comprehend Languages, Contact Other Plane, Drawmij's Instant Summons, Feign Death, Find Familiar, Gentle Repose, Illusory Script, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Phantom Steed, Rary's Telepathic Bond, Tenser's Floating Disk, Unseen Servant. You also get level 2+ rituals earlier than an artificer would, and can ritual cast without having the spell prepared.
Whether access to those spells is worth a feat is dependent on party composition; it's an easy 'no' if the party already has a wizard, since for most of those spells there isn't a lot of value to multiple people knowing them, otherwise... maybe?
Honestly, I cannot see someone taking Wizard for the Rituals. The limit to Wizard spells of having the spell in your spellbook is too harsh.
That said taking a single level of Wizard for an Artificer makes a lot of sense.
You get 3 extra cantrips, the ability to learn ALL the first level wizard spells, starting with 6 free ones, extra spells prepared = to your int modifier +1 (wizard level of 1), you get arcane recovery (1 free first level spell spell slot back), and most importantly, your wizard level counts as TWO artificer levels for spell slots. You get your 2nd level spell slot when you hit Artificer 3rd (character 4) rather than Artificer 5 (character 5) for a pure Artificer.
Even a 2nd level could be worth it (more spell slots boost, and the arcane tradition can give you things like portents or the Abjuration Ward.)
At 20th level you have a 6th level slot, very valuable for upcasting. But I am not sure it makes sense if you go all the way to 20th level, the Soul of Artifice is one of the better capstone abilities - reaction to avoid death and a plus 6 bonus to all saves (assuming you are not an idiot and have attuned to 6 magic items).
.........
It has to be in his spell book to cast it as a ritual without preparing, and artificer does not provide a spell book.
They don't know any spells as an artificer. Any spell they have prepared as an artificer can be copied into the spellbook as usual for a wizard with prepared spells. Any wizard spell in the spellbook can be cast as a ritual by the wizard.
They can, but they just have to turn them into Spell Scrolls first... I could see a DM hand-waving the whole thing and just letting the player copy directly into their book instead with the same Arcana roll required for the scroll plus the time/cost of drafting a scroll, but if you multiclass as a wizard into any prepared spell class you can basically give yourself all the low level ritual spells you want... assuming you have the gold and downtime.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
The rule you're missing is here, but you have to scroll down, as it's in the "Your Spellbook" blurb which I can't link directly into. Here's the text you're missing:
"If you lose your spellbook, you can use the same procedure to transcribe the spells that you have prepared into a new spellbook."
Technically, if your DM insists on absolute RAW, you can't edit an existing spellbook using this rule - you have to make a new one from scratch. But regardless of your DM being a stickler for that, you simply don't have to make any Spell Scrolls - which is good, because the core rules don't give you a way to make Spell Scrolls (you have to use an optional rule from Xanathar's).
Now that's interesting, since it just says "spells that you have prepared" and not specifically "wizard spells that you have prepared". I think the funny thing about that is it allows all kinds of shenanigans if you multiclass into a class that prepares their spells, but is functionally useless if you multiclass into a class where spells are just known.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I don't know why, but this statement just makes me laugh.
Join the Competition of the Finest 'Brews XIX! (Or just spectate and vote, that's cool too. Either way, go there. It's awesome, and it'll be even more awesome if you join.)