There are basically sort of 2 varieties of setups, right?
A DC attack: where you roll a d20+ (some number or formula for DC) against the Creature's AC
And then the Saving throw is when the Creature/(DM) makes a Saving Throw against your attack (some other formula that involves your stats: spell casting modifier, etc)
Can someone explain the math formulas and also the language to me? . . Like if aspell description says "Make a melee spell attack against the target" or "Make a ranged spell attack against the target" that means do the 1st one, the DC attack where you roll to hit against the target's AC ( and is there any other language to look for to identify that setup)?
And then for the other type (Saving Throw made by the Creature/(DM)) , the spell description will just say something like "if the target fails a [DEX, WIS, STR, CON, INT, or CHA] Saving Threw then. .. something bad happens to them . . . and sometimes even if they succeed on the saving throw, something half as bad happens to them. . . . I guess any language that includes "saving throw" works like that)
, , ,
And then when your character is the target of an attack, it sort of works in reverse:
the Creature/DM rolls aganst your AC ** OR** you roll a particular type of Saving Throw against some number/formula that pertains to the attackng creature's stat block
(but either way the DM tells you what to roll and does all or most of the math to tell you if your saving throw succeeds or fails (or take 1/2 damage or something else) , right?
. . . .
Back to if I'm casting the attack spell, I need to provide the DM with infomation on what kind of roll and what kind of damge, right? Anything else? I guess any advantge/disadvantqe/conditions/bonues/buff/etc that apply to my character and any unusual rules pertaining to my spell?
There are basically sort of 2 varieties of setups, right?
A DC attack: where you roll a d20+ (some number or formula for DC) against the Creature's AC
And then the Saving throw is when the Creature/(DM) makes a Saving Throw against your attack (some other formula that involves your stats: spell casting modifier, etc)
There are actually three types of d20 roll:
Attack rolls; these are made against AC (armor class) and consist of d20 + ability score for the weapon (usually dexterity or strength) + proficiency bonus if you're proficient with the weapon
Saving throws; these are made against a DC (difficulty class) and consist of d20 + ability score for the save + proficiency bonus if you're proficient with the save
Ability check; these are also made against a DC and consist of 20 + ability score for the task/challenge/check + proficiency bonus if you're proficient in a skill relevant to the action
Attack rolls aren't made against a DC
Can someone explain the math formulas and also the language to me? . . Like if aspell description says "Make a melee spell attack against the target" or "Make a ranged spell attack against the target" that means do the 1st one, the DC attack where you roll to hit against the target's AC ( and is there any other language to look for to identify that setup)?
See above for the math, although for spell attacks it'll use your spellcasting ability and always add your proficiency bonus
And then for the other type (Saving Throw made by the Creature/(DM)) , the spell description will just say something like "if the target fails a [DEX, WIS, STR, CON, INT, or CHA] Saving Threw then. .. something bad happens to them . . . and sometimes even if they succeed on the saving throw, something half as bad happens to them. . . . I guess any language that includes "saving throw" works like that)
If you force a target to make a save, it'll be against the relevant DC. For spells it's your spellcasting DC and, for example, for monks it's their ki save DC. It's usually 8 + ability modifier + proficiency bonus, with the ability modifier depending on your class/ability. For example for wizards their spellcasting ability is Intelligence, so that's the modifier you'll use.
, , ,
And then when your character is the target of an attack, it sort of works in reverse:
the Creature/DM rolls aganst your AC ** OR** you roll a particular type of Saving Throw against some number/formula that pertains to the attackng creature's stat block
(but either way the DM tells you what to roll and does all or most of the math to tell you if your saving throw succeeds or fails (or take 1/2 damage or something else) , right?
Pretty much, the DM will say "They rolled a 25 to hit" which you check against your AC, or ask you to make a saving throw and tell you if the result succeeds or fails.
. . . .
Back to if I'm casting the attack spell, I need to provide the DM with infomation on what kind of roll and what kind of damge, right? Anything else? I guess any advantge/disadvantqe/conditions/bonues/buff/etc that apply to my character and any unusual rules pertaining to my spell?
The DM will know what kind of roll it is based on if you're rolling to hit them or asking for a save. Damage is important for resistance and vulnerabilities, yeah. You don't need to tell the DM what modifiers you have, just the result of those modifiers. Although "showing your working" doesn't hurt; eg. "I rolled a 9 and 14 with advantage, so taking the 14 with my +3 strength and +4 proficiency, that's a 21. Plus I get a d4 from Bless which is another 3 for a total of 24 to hit?"
DC: Stands for Difficulty Class and determines how hard it is to resist the effect of a spell or ability. This is a static number and to see if a target resists the spell or ability they must make a Saving Throw.
Saving Throw: This is a d20 roll you make to see if you resist a spell or ability. There is a Saving Throw based off of each of the 6 Ability Scores and the one you use is determined by the spell or ability you are trying to resist. If the total for your Saving Throw is equal to or greater than the DC then you resist the spell or ability.
AC: Stands for Armor Class and determines how hard you are to hit with an Attack. There are multiple ways of calculating your AC and you can only benefit from one at a time. So if you have more than one way of calculating your AC you choose which one you want to use.
Attack Roll: This is a d20 roll you make to see if you hit with an Attack. There are 4 categories of Attacks and they are Melee or Ranged, Weapon or Spell Attacks. If the total for your Attack Roll is equal to or greater than the target's AC then usually your attack hits. The only exception to this is if you roll a 1 or a 20 on the d20, a 1 always misses and a 20 always hits and is a Critical Hit.
Note that Proficiency Bonus is only added if you are proficient with the Saving Throw you are making or the weapon you are attacking with.
Which ability modifier you use for spell DC and Spell Attack Rolls is determined by your Class's Spellcasting feature. For Melee Weapon Attacks it is usually Strength and for Ranged Weapon Attacks it is usually Dexterity.
d20 rolls are usually tied to one of your ability scores, meaning you add the ability modifier for that score(the +X value instead of the actual score). If the roll involves something you're proficient in, you'll add your Proficiency Bonus as well. There may be other modifiers that you add to the roll too. For example, attacking with a +1 weapon means you add +1 to the attack(and damage) roll. Your character sheet on D&D Beyond does a lot of the math for you, so you can see the total modifier you'll add to the d20 roll for a given situation. To sum up the types of d20 rolls:
Attack Roll: Attacker rolls d20 and adds the appropriate modifiers. If the result matches or exceeds the target's Armor Class, the attack hits. If the initial d20 roll was a 1(aka a Natural 1 or Nat 1 for short), the attack ALWAYS misses regardless of the AC or modifiers. A Natural 20 always hits and is a critical hit(which increases the damage roll as explained in the rules).
Saving Throw: Sort of like the reverse of an attack roll. Instead of the attacker rolling to see if they hit, the defender rolls to see if they resist. The defender rolls d20 and again adds the appropriate modifiers. If it meets or exceeds the DC, the saving throw is a success. Succeeding a saving throw means different things depending on what you're saving against. For example, succeeding on a Dexterity save against a Fireball spell means you take half damage instead of the full damage roll. If a Dire Wolf makes a successful attack roll against you, not only do you take the damage from the attack but you must make a Strength saving throw. If you fail it, you are knocked prone. If someone casts Tasha's Mind Whip at you, you make an Intelligence save. If you fail, you take the full damage AND you are penalized in what you can do on your next turn. If you succeed, you only take half damage and are not penalized on your next turn. The ability or spell that calls for the saving throw will also specify what happens based on the result of that saving throw.
Ability Check: Basically every other d20 roll. The skills listed on your character sheet like Athletics, Perception etc. are basically specialized ability checks. So you can be proficient in Wisdom(Perception) checks, but not proficient in ALL Wisdom checks. Sometimes you're rolling to meet or exceed a DC value, sometimes there's what's called a contested check. Instead of a fixed value you have to meet, the opposing party also rolls an ability check and the one with the highest value wins. For example, if you try to Grapple a target, you roll a Strength(Athletics) check, and the creature you're trying to Grapple rolls either a Strength(Athletics) check or a Dexterity(Acrobatics) check(because they can try to resist your Grapple attempt either by overpowering you or by slipping out of your grasp). If the DM wants to see if an NPC believes you, they might have the NPC roll a Wisdom(Insight) check, and have you roll either a Charisma(Persuasion) check if you're telling the truth, or a Charisma(Deception) check if you're lying.
Thank you all. I'm sorry, I don't think I was clear in the way I worded the question. I was specifically just asking about damage spells. When I look at the spell list on my dndbeyond character sheet, there is a column that says HIT/DC. . .. right now, I'm wondering about all things, just related to that. And I'm specifically wondering about how this works re: Damage Spells . (I'm not sure ability scores come into this one narrow aspect of things, correct?). Again, sorry for wording the question poorly.
Also I think part of my problem is that I'm only playing online now and I have very limited experience playing in person, so I haven't dealt much with paper character sheets and doing any of the math, so what goes on with the math kind of stays hidden, unless I go looking for it. And right now, I'm playing a spellcaster who doesn't use weapons (only uses spells and cantrips to deal damage); it seems like using a weapon or unarmed attack to deal damage occasionally makes how some of this work,, more clear and makes it make more sense.
So: (in the case of casting a damage spell)
* The Target's Saving Throws are made against the spell caster's DC (Difficulty Class) * Difficulty Class: DC = 8 + Ability Modifier + Proficiency Bonus (perhaps + magical items/spells that might affect)
(And proficiency bonus is based on level and a chart, right in the PHB/Basic Rules, right?)
The Spell Attack Rolls are made against the Target's AC (Armor Class) . . (other things like Advantage/Disadvantge, effects of spells/magical items might affect and therefore be added or subtracted into/from the equation) *. Spell Attack = d20 + the spell caster's Attack Bonus (perhaps + Spells/magical items . . Advantage/Disadvantge, etc) * Spell Attack Bonus = Spellcasting ability modifier + your Proficiency bonus *. Armor Class: AC. .. seems to involve DEX, Armor and Shields (and possibly magical items) . .
Back to the spell list on the character sheet, on the HIT/DC column, for damage dealing spells, there seem to be 2 kinds (which would make sense, given that it's called HIT/DC . . anyway) .. there's the ones that look like this +[number] I think those are the ones that I/my character rolls a d20 (d20 + that number) against what, the target's AC? That's called an Attack Roll, right? . . . . and then the one with the abbreviation representing 1 of the 6 types of saving throws over a number . . those the target/DM rolls the specified type of saving throw and has to beat (I think match or beat) that number with their roll of a 20 plus their Stats related to that Saving throw. That's called a "saving throw", right . . like "wisdom saving throw" or "strength saving throw", etc., right?
Again dndbeyond's character sheet is doing all or most of the math for me, so, I'm kind of in the dark on what all the numbers mean and where they come from, what the formulas are.
I guess I'd like to get better at knowing what to look for and what to expect when I'm reading a spell's description (thus the part of the quesiton about the language).
More than than that, I want to understand what's going on well enough to be more "with in" when I play online and to know what is and what isn't being automatically added into the calulations (what math I still need to do, in order to provide the correct number to the DM) . . . and also to be able to play in person and not be a slave to a screen and the dndbeyond website character sheet and all the calculatons that it does for me automatically (as an option . . I still really love having the math done for me automatically. . but I think I need to understand it better and what's really going on with it and what it means and entails).
There are basically sort of 2 varieties of setups, right?
A DC attack: where you roll a d20+ (some number or formula for DC) against the Creature's AC
And then the Saving throw is when the Creature/(DM) makes a Saving Throw against your attack (some other formula that involves your stats: spell casting modifier, etc)
Can someone explain the math formulas and also the language to me? . . Like if a spell description says "Make a melee spell attack against the target" or "Make a ranged spell attack against the target" that means do the 1st one, the DC attack where you roll to hit against the target's AC ( and is there any other language to look for to identify that setup)?
And then for the other type (Saving Throw made by the Creature/(DM)) , the spell description will just say something like "if the target fails a [DEX, WIS, STR, CON, INT, or CHA] Saving Threw then. .. something bad happens to them . . . and sometimes even if they succeed on the saving throw, something half as bad happens to them. . . . I guess any language that includes "saving throw" works like that)
, , ,
And then when your character is the target of an attack, it sort of works in reverse:
the Creature/DM rolls aganst your AC
** OR**
you roll a particular type of Saving Throw against some number/formula that pertains to the attackng creature's stat block
(but either way the DM tells you what to roll and does all or most of the math to tell you if your saving throw succeeds or fails (or take 1/2 damage or something else) , right?
. . . .
Back to if I'm casting the attack spell, I need to provide the DM with infomation on what kind of roll and what kind of damge, right? Anything else? I guess any advantge/disadvantqe/conditions/bonues/buff/etc that apply to my character and any unusual rules pertaining to my spell?
There are actually three types of d20 roll:
Attack rolls aren't made against a DC
See above for the math, although for spell attacks it'll use your spellcasting ability and always add your proficiency bonus
If you force a target to make a save, it'll be against the relevant DC. For spells it's your spellcasting DC and, for example, for monks it's their ki save DC. It's usually 8 + ability modifier + proficiency bonus, with the ability modifier depending on your class/ability. For example for wizards their spellcasting ability is Intelligence, so that's the modifier you'll use.
Pretty much, the DM will say "They rolled a 25 to hit" which you check against your AC, or ask you to make a saving throw and tell you if the result succeeds or fails.
The DM will know what kind of roll it is based on if you're rolling to hit them or asking for a save. Damage is important for resistance and vulnerabilities, yeah. You don't need to tell the DM what modifiers you have, just the result of those modifiers. Although "showing your working" doesn't hurt; eg. "I rolled a 9 and 14 with advantage, so taking the 14 with my +3 strength and +4 proficiency, that's a 21. Plus I get a d4 from Bless which is another 3 for a total of 24 to hit?"
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okay, let's start with basic terms.
DC: Stands for Difficulty Class and determines how hard it is to resist the effect of a spell or ability. This is a static number and to see if a target resists the spell or ability they must make a Saving Throw.
Saving Throw: This is a d20 roll you make to see if you resist a spell or ability. There is a Saving Throw based off of each of the 6 Ability Scores and the one you use is determined by the spell or ability you are trying to resist. If the total for your Saving Throw is equal to or greater than the DC then you resist the spell or ability.
AC: Stands for Armor Class and determines how hard you are to hit with an Attack. There are multiple ways of calculating your AC and you can only benefit from one at a time. So if you have more than one way of calculating your AC you choose which one you want to use.
Attack Roll: This is a d20 roll you make to see if you hit with an Attack. There are 4 categories of Attacks and they are Melee or Ranged, Weapon or Spell Attacks. If the total for your Attack Roll is equal to or greater than the target's AC then usually your attack hits. The only exception to this is if you roll a 1 or a 20 on the d20, a 1 always misses and a 20 always hits and is a Critical Hit.
Okay, but how do we calculate these?
DC: 8 + Proficiency Bonus + Ability Modifier
Saving Throw: d20 + Proficiency Bonus + Ability Modifier
As mentioned there are many ways of calculating AC depending on the armor you wear and the class features you have. Here are a few examples:
Base AC: 10 + Dexterity Modifier
Light Armor: Armor Value + Dexterity Modifier
Medium Armor: Armor Value + Dexterity Modifier(maximum of +2)
Heavy Armor: Armor Value + Dexterity Modifier(maximum of +0)
And finally Attack Roll: d20 + Proficiency Bonus + Ability Modifier
Note that Proficiency Bonus is only added if you are proficient with the Saving Throw you are making or the weapon you are attacking with.
Which ability modifier you use for spell DC and Spell Attack Rolls is determined by your Class's Spellcasting feature. For Melee Weapon Attacks it is usually Strength and for Ranged Weapon Attacks it is usually Dexterity.
d20 rolls are usually tied to one of your ability scores, meaning you add the ability modifier for that score(the +X value instead of the actual score). If the roll involves something you're proficient in, you'll add your Proficiency Bonus as well. There may be other modifiers that you add to the roll too. For example, attacking with a +1 weapon means you add +1 to the attack(and damage) roll. Your character sheet on D&D Beyond does a lot of the math for you, so you can see the total modifier you'll add to the d20 roll for a given situation. To sum up the types of d20 rolls:
Attack Roll: Attacker rolls d20 and adds the appropriate modifiers. If the result matches or exceeds the target's Armor Class, the attack hits. If the initial d20 roll was a 1(aka a Natural 1 or Nat 1 for short), the attack ALWAYS misses regardless of the AC or modifiers. A Natural 20 always hits and is a critical hit(which increases the damage roll as explained in the rules).
Saving Throw: Sort of like the reverse of an attack roll. Instead of the attacker rolling to see if they hit, the defender rolls to see if they resist. The defender rolls d20 and again adds the appropriate modifiers. If it meets or exceeds the DC, the saving throw is a success. Succeeding a saving throw means different things depending on what you're saving against. For example, succeeding on a Dexterity save against a Fireball spell means you take half damage instead of the full damage roll. If a Dire Wolf makes a successful attack roll against you, not only do you take the damage from the attack but you must make a Strength saving throw. If you fail it, you are knocked prone. If someone casts Tasha's Mind Whip at you, you make an Intelligence save. If you fail, you take the full damage AND you are penalized in what you can do on your next turn. If you succeed, you only take half damage and are not penalized on your next turn. The ability or spell that calls for the saving throw will also specify what happens based on the result of that saving throw.
Ability Check: Basically every other d20 roll. The skills listed on your character sheet like Athletics, Perception etc. are basically specialized ability checks. So you can be proficient in Wisdom(Perception) checks, but not proficient in ALL Wisdom checks. Sometimes you're rolling to meet or exceed a DC value, sometimes there's what's called a contested check. Instead of a fixed value you have to meet, the opposing party also rolls an ability check and the one with the highest value wins. For example, if you try to Grapple a target, you roll a Strength(Athletics) check, and the creature you're trying to Grapple rolls either a Strength(Athletics) check or a Dexterity(Acrobatics) check(because they can try to resist your Grapple attempt either by overpowering you or by slipping out of your grasp). If the DM wants to see if an NPC believes you, they might have the NPC roll a Wisdom(Insight) check, and have you roll either a Charisma(Persuasion) check if you're telling the truth, or a Charisma(Deception) check if you're lying.
Thank you all. I'm sorry, I don't think I was clear in the way I worded the question. I was specifically just asking about damage spells. When I look at the spell list on my dndbeyond character sheet, there is a column that says HIT/DC. . .. right now, I'm wondering about all things, just related to that. And I'm specifically wondering about how this works re: Damage Spells . (I'm not sure ability scores come into this one narrow aspect of things, correct?). Again, sorry for wording the question poorly.
Also I think part of my problem is that I'm only playing online now and I have very limited experience playing in person, so I haven't dealt much with paper character sheets and doing any of the math, so what goes on with the math kind of stays hidden, unless I go looking for it. And right now, I'm playing a spellcaster who doesn't use weapons (only uses spells and cantrips to deal damage); it seems like using a weapon or unarmed attack to deal damage occasionally makes how some of this work,, more clear and makes it make more sense.
So: (in the case of casting a damage spell)
* The Target's Saving Throws are made against the spell caster's DC (Difficulty Class)
* Difficulty Class: DC = 8 + Ability Modifier + Proficiency Bonus (perhaps + magical items/spells that might affect)
(And proficiency bonus is based on level and a chart, right in the PHB/Basic Rules, right?)
The Spell Attack Rolls are made against the Target's AC (Armor Class) . . (other things like Advantage/Disadvantge, effects of spells/magical items might affect and therefore be added or subtracted into/from the equation)
*. Spell Attack = d20 + the spell caster's Attack Bonus (perhaps + Spells/magical items . . Advantage/Disadvantge, etc)
* Spell Attack Bonus = Spellcasting ability modifier + your Proficiency bonus
*. Armor Class: AC. .. seems to involve DEX, Armor and Shields (and possibly magical items) . .
Back to the spell list on the character sheet, on the HIT/DC column, for damage dealing spells, there seem to be 2 kinds (which would make sense, given that it's called HIT/DC . . anyway) .. there's the ones that look like this +[number] I think those are the ones that I/my character rolls a d20 (d20 + that number) against what, the target's AC? That's called an Attack Roll, right? . . . . and then the one with the abbreviation representing 1 of the 6 types of saving throws over a number . . those the target/DM rolls the specified type of saving throw and has to beat (I think match or beat) that number with their roll of a 20 plus their Stats related to that Saving throw. That's called a "saving throw", right . . like "wisdom saving throw" or "strength saving throw", etc., right?
Again dndbeyond's character sheet is doing all or most of the math for me, so, I'm kind of in the dark on what all the numbers mean and where they come from, what the formulas are.
I guess I'd like to get better at knowing what to look for and what to expect when I'm reading a spell's description (thus the part of the quesiton about the language).
More than than that, I want to understand what's going on well enough to be more "with in" when I play online and to know what is and what isn't being automatically added into the calulations (what math I still need to do, in order to provide the correct number to the DM) . . . and also to be able to play in person and not be a slave to a screen and the dndbeyond website character sheet and all the calculatons that it does for me automatically (as an option . . I still really love having the math done for me automatically. . but I think I need to understand it better and what's really going on with it and what it means and entails).