I have found no satisfactory answer here, or elsewhere on the internet.
It is CLEAR we can cast a bonus action spell (which would include the Shillelagh bonus action cantrip) and cast a cantrip "with a casting time of 1 action" with our action.
Crawford further elucidates that actions and bonus actions are not interchangeable.
The honest question is, if the CANTRIP being cast as an action is FASTER than a typical action, being a bonus action, how exactly does that make sense, and is that REALLY what was INTENDED.
The simple scenario is: a Ranger with the Shillelagh BONUS ACTION cantrip wishes to light up both his clubs with Shillelagh magic, foregoing any other action on his turn, to start combat.
Even IF your DM allows you to cast Shillelagh with both your Action/Bonus Action and this is a very big IF, the point of trying to 'light up' 2 clubs is still moot because as soon as you Shillelagh the 2nd club the Shillelagh on the first club would end as per the spells description.
Thank you for a more authentic and authoratative response. I missed the part about the spell ending on recast. Begs the question about shillelagh and magic stone, however. I already know what the rules lawyers will say...
I was looking for a rules response, not homebrew. I got it; I missed part of the text of the spell.
Thanks for playing!
You seem to have to also missed part of the general rules, because you must use a bonus action, not an action, to cast spells with a casting time of one bonus action, and you can only take one bonus action on your turn. Like I said, you don't need to obey the rules, but when you ask a question in the rules forum and respond to a rules answer with "I heartily disagree, I do what I want," you are homebrewing. You chose where to ask your question; don't cop an attitude if you chose wrong.
Re-read my original post. I categorically did not miss that part of the general rules nor Crawford's response.
The game is over...the jig is up!
Right, so you’re homebrewing. Ignoring the text of the PHB because you think it doesn’t make sense is homebrewing. That’s totally fine! Just don’t get weird and rude with people who explain the rules in the rules forum.
In addition to only being allowed one of them, there’s a flaw in the premise. A bonus action isn’t necessarily faster than an action. Yes, the name implies that, but it’s not really true. It’s more like a separate pool of things you can do in addition to an action, it’s not an action-lite. That’s why they are not interchangeable. They are two different things.
And then the situation where you allow two shillelaghs, but not in one turn:
Turn 1b: one shillelagh, one attack
Turn 2b: one shillelagh, one attack
On turns 3+, they make two attacks as normal. The only time allowing "bonus action downgrade" could ever benefit the player, then, is if they have exactly one turn before the enemy is within range. No more than one turn and no less.
You can't cast shillelagh and magic stone on the same turn, but you could have both active at the same time. A loaded sling might be usable as an improvised club*; if you cast shillelagh on a club rather than a staff, you now have two light weapons. Thus on turn 2, you could dual wield them - subject, of course, to DM fiat.
(*PHB p147, under "Ammunition" and "Improvised Weapons")
In addition to only being allowed one of them, there’s a flaw in the premise. A bonus action isn’t necessarily faster that an action. Yes, the name implies that, but it’s not really true. It’s more like a separate pool of things you can do in addition to an action, it’s not an action-lite. That’s why they are not interchangeable. They are two different things.
The use of the name "Bonus Action" has led to SO MUCH confusion, I wish they'd picked a better name. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there is one.
Re-read my original post. I categorically did not miss that part of the general rules nor Crawford's response.
The game is over...the jig is up!
So you basically answered your own question in the OP, and say you didn’t miss the part of the general rules that state you must use a bonus action to cast a BA spell. And the part that says you only get one BA.
So what exactly is your question? Why you can’t do two BA (with the trade off that you don’t also get your action)? Balance issues would probably be the answer for that. The same reason the BA spellcasting rules say you can only cast a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
I was looking for a rules response, not homebrew. I got it; I missed part of the text of the spell.
Thanks for playing!
How is the part where the rules say you can only have one item enhanced by Shillelagh at a time any more of a rules response than the rule about the spell's casting time? That's the "text" of the spell too. Not sure why you said you weren't looking for homebrew, since that's exactly what you'd be doing.
The use of the name "Bonus Action" has led to SO MUCH confusion, I wish they'd picked a better name. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there is one.
Being able to exchange one type of action was something you could do in 4th edition. So people coming from that edition have to adjust their expectations in this regard.
Personally I think the confusion stems from Quickened Spell metamagic, how Bonus Action spell casting times are described as "especially swift", and players wanting that level of flexibility with their actions in general.
Yep, OP was doing it, and everybody else is mirroring it back at them. Not productive. But I got the impression OP got what they were after and we're all just clowning on them for sport at this point.
Uh, I mean, gold star for noticing, champ! You gonna make a point, or just state the obvious? /s
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I have found no satisfactory answer here, or elsewhere on the internet.
It is CLEAR we can cast a bonus action spell (which would include the Shillelagh bonus action cantrip) and cast a cantrip "with a casting time of 1 action" with our action.
Crawford further elucidates that actions and bonus actions are not interchangeable.
The honest question is, if the CANTRIP being cast as an action is FASTER than a typical action, being a bonus action, how exactly does that make sense, and is that REALLY what was INTENDED.
The simple scenario is: a Ranger with the Shillelagh BONUS ACTION cantrip wishes to light up both his clubs with Shillelagh magic, foregoing any other action on his turn, to start combat.
You can’t cast shillelagh as an action, no matter what, and you only get one bonus action per turn. The question is moot.
I heartily disagree, and as DM I'll rule as I please.
The question is most definitely not moot, and I'm interested in a more authentic and authoritative response.
Even IF your DM allows you to cast Shillelagh with both your Action/Bonus Action and this is a very big IF, the point of trying to 'light up' 2 clubs is still moot because as soon as you Shillelagh the 2nd club the Shillelagh on the first club would end as per the spells description.
Thank you for a more authentic and authoratative response. I missed the part about the spell ending on recast. Begs the question about shillelagh and magic stone, however. I already know what the rules lawyers will say...
You’re asking in the Rules & Mechanics forum, bro. You’re more than welcome to rule as you please, but there’s a different homebrew forum for that.
The spell ends if you cast it again so its impossible to have two shillelagh active
I was looking for a rules response, not homebrew. I got it; I missed part of the text of the spell.
Thanks for playing!
You seem to have to also missed part of the general rules, because you must use a bonus action, not an action, to cast spells with a casting time of one bonus action, and you can only take one bonus action on your turn. Like I said, you don't need to obey the rules, but when you ask a question in the rules forum and respond to a rules answer with "I heartily disagree, I do what I want," you are homebrewing. You chose where to ask your question; don't cop an attitude if you chose wrong.
Re-read my original post. I categorically did not miss that part of the general rules nor Crawford's response.
The game is over...the jig is up!
Right, so you’re homebrewing. Ignoring the text of the PHB because you think it doesn’t make sense is homebrewing. That’s totally fine! Just don’t get weird and rude with people who explain the rules in the rules forum.
In addition to only being allowed one of them, there’s a flaw in the premise. A bonus action isn’t necessarily faster than an action. Yes, the name implies that, but it’s not really true. It’s more like a separate pool of things you can do in addition to an action, it’s not an action-lite. That’s why they are not interchangeable. They are two different things.
So, imagining the situation where you allow this:
Turn 1a: two shillelaghs, no attacks
Turn 2a: two attacks
And then the situation where you allow two shillelaghs, but not in one turn:
Turn 1b: one shillelagh, one attack
Turn 2b: one shillelagh, one attack
On turns 3+, they make two attacks as normal. The only time allowing "bonus action downgrade" could ever benefit the player, then, is if they have exactly one turn before the enemy is within range. No more than one turn and no less.
You can't cast shillelagh and magic stone on the same turn, but you could have both active at the same time. A loaded sling might be usable as an improvised club*; if you cast shillelagh on a club rather than a staff, you now have two light weapons. Thus on turn 2, you could dual wield them - subject, of course, to DM fiat.
(*PHB p147, under "Ammunition" and "Improvised Weapons")
The use of the name "Bonus Action" has led to SO MUCH confusion, I wish they'd picked a better name. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there is one.
So you basically answered your own question in the OP, and say you didn’t miss the part of the general rules that state you must use a bonus action to cast a BA spell. And the part that says you only get one BA.
So what exactly is your question? Why you can’t do two BA (with the trade off that you don’t also get your action)? Balance issues would probably be the answer for that. The same reason the BA spellcasting rules say you can only cast a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Or are you looking for something else?
How is the part where the rules say you can only have one item enhanced by Shillelagh at a time any more of a rules response than the rule about the spell's casting time? That's the "text" of the spell too. Not sure why you said you weren't looking for homebrew, since that's exactly what you'd be doing.
This thread has a weird, aggressive tone.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Being able to exchange one type of action was something you could do in 4th edition. So people coming from that edition have to adjust their expectations in this regard.
Personally I think the confusion stems from Quickened Spell metamagic, how Bonus Action spell casting times are described as "especially swift", and players wanting that level of flexibility with their actions in general.
Yep, OP was doing it, and everybody else is mirroring it back at them. Not productive. But I got the impression OP got what they were after and we're all just clowning on them for sport at this point.
Uh, I mean, gold star for noticing, champ! You gonna make a point, or just state the obvious? /s