What happens if you use the basic effect of Wish (duplicate spell of 8th level or lower) to cast Booming Blade? Since the spell component is necessary for the spell to work, what would happen? Would a weapon be fashioned out of pure magical energy, or would it just be an unarmed strike? The same thing goes for Instant Summons, since the gem has to be present for that spell to work.
Furthermore, can you cast Booming Blade with a spellcasting focus normally? The 1 silver piece requirement on the weapon is clearly intended to make it so that you can't use a spellcasting focus, but if I remember rightly the rule is only for components with gold piece values. Generally, you can use a spellcasting focus to cast Detect Thoughts (component is a copper piece, best joke in DnD), so why is this any different?
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I know that using Wish to cast a cantrip is pretty stupid, but my question is what it would do with Booming Blade specifically, since the first line of Booming Blade is as follows;
You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you.
Since there is no weapon involved in casting, what would happen?
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The first clause of wish does not change what happens in the spell's description. It changes the spell's effective level, and it removes any casting components. You would still need to attack with a weapon because the spell description says so. You could just ignore the part about the weapon needing a monetary value. You could combine booming blade with shadow blade just like you could before the errata--as long as you were willing to spend a 9th level spell slot to do it.
If you want to do that other wacky stuff, I would still allow it, but under wish's second clause, and I would make you roll to see if you retained the ability to cast wish.
I would argue that wish might actually fail in this case if you're going to be really strict about it.
The reason being that wish only says it provides a spell's "requirements" (including costly components), and that the spell then takes effect. To me the requirements of booming blade is that you have a weapon worth 1 sp, wish basically says to ignore that. However, the spell's actual effect is entirely reliant on you actually having that weapon to attack with, so the weapon is both a requirement to cast the spell in the first place, but also a necessary part of the spell's effect, but wish only provides you with the first part.
I mean in practice I doubt anyone's going to be that strict, and even in Rules As Written it's not that clear that this is how you're supposed to interpret it; I certainly wouldn't DM it that way, just wanted to point out an oddity in how these spells actually function.
Alternatively changing the request to "I wish to conjure a sword and use it to cast booming blade as a single action" would fall comfortably within "ask your DM" territory, and it arguably shouldn't come with any consequences since you're asking for a fraction of the 25,000 gp allowance for if you had only created an item, and a cantrip is clearly well below 8th-level. Combining effects in this way obviously requires some kind of cut-off eventually (e.g- a 10,000 gp blade paired with a 5th-level spell) but that's for your DM to decide.
Furthermore, can you cast Booming Blade with a spellcasting focus normally? The 1 silver piece requirement on the weapon is clearly intended to make it so that you can't use a spellcasting focus, but if I remember rightly the rule is only for components with gold piece values.
You remember wrong. The rules says "But if a cost is indicated for a component" so any cost will do, even if it only a silver or a copper.
What happens if you use the basic effect of Wish (duplicate spell of 8th level or lower) to cast Booming Blade? Since the spell component is necessary for the spell to work, what would happen? Would a weapon be fashioned out of pure magical energy, or would it just be an unarmed strike? The same thing goes for Instant Summons, since the gem has to be present for that spell to work.
With both spells, you'd still need whatever implements the spell's text says you need, but you can ignore the demands of the listed M component, so e.g. for Booming Blade you'd get to ignore the monetary cost and thereby cast the spell with a weapon that costs less (e.g. a torch) or a weapon that has no cost, such as the Shadow Blade spell or a +3 Rapier.
Furthermore, can you cast Booming Blade with a spellcasting focus normally? The 1 silver piece requirement on the weapon is clearly intended to make it so that you can't use a spellcasting focus, but if I remember rightly the rule is only for components with gold piece values. Generally, you can use a spellcasting focus to cast Detect Thoughts (component is a copper piece, best joke in DnD), so why is this any different?
Yes, of course, provided the focus is a weapon worth at least 1 sp (which means it needs to cost at least 1 sp and you need to be willing to treat it as an improvised weapon for the spell). The 1 sp minimum cost on the M component is, according to internet rumor, based on JC misunderstanding how component pouches work and feeling the need to "fix" the spell to work with them.
I suppose if you used Wish to cast Instant Summons, you would still need a sapphire, but it could be tiny and worth a single gold piece instead of 1,000+.
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Maybe. Although the instant summons spell description does reference the sapphire, but it calls it out as the spell's component, which is explicitly waived by casting the spell via wish. I wouldn't enforce it, but if you want to lump it in for the sake of consistency, that's fair.
Maybe I'm wrong, but in this case I think I would rule that the Wish spell creates what is needed for the spell, in this case a weapon of value 1 sp for Booming Blade and a Sapphire worth at least 1,000 gp for Instant Summons. The difference might be that those objects only exist until fulfilling the Wish, attacking with Booming Blade and Summoning the object in Instant Summons.
If that were the cause, does that mean you would have to use the secondary use of wish? Or could you just create infinite 1,000 gp sapphires?
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A +3 rapier explicitly has no value unless your DM decides to assign it one in your campaign. That's why you can't use it for BB/GFB without a house rule from your DM assigning it a value (or some other house rule, of course).
Should your DM do this, it is expected that the value will correlate with the item's rarity, but it is absolutely not expected that it will correlate with its underlying item. There is no basis for assuming that should your DM assign a value to your +3 rapier, said value will be based on the value of a normal rapier.
I would argue there is SOME basis for aiming that should your DM assign a value to your +3 rapier, said value will be based on the value of a normal rapier.
And I would argue that the lack of a LISTED value does not suggest the absence of value altogether. No value is listed for a lot of things which other elements of the text suggest must have value. For example, the equipment section of the PHB states that "Members of the nobility trade [...] in legal rights, such as the rights to a mine, a port, or farmland," which certainly suggests that such things have value, but can you find me the given value of the rights to a mine, a port, or farmland?
Should your DM do this, it is expected that the value will correlate with the item's rarity, but it is absolutely not expected that it will correlate with its underlying item. There is no basis for assuming that should your DM assign a value to your +3 rapier, said value will be based on the value of a normal rapier.
Are you actually arguing that a rapier, +3 would be worth less than an entirely ordinary non-magical rapier?
I don't think it's in the least bit unreasonable that a +3 version of an item should be atleast as valuable as the mundane item that it is an upgrade for; especially since booming blade doesn't actually care what the exact value is, only that it's at at least 1 sp, which it absolutely must be if the bog standard non-magical version costs 25 gp. Hell, at that price part of the blade wrapped in a towel would meet the requirement.
Per the DMG tables, the minimum value for a magic item is 50GP, anyway. The fact that a DM could rule one as "free" doesn't change that. Just like a DM ruling that you find a mundane rapier in the dirt, therefore paying nothing, doesn't mean the mundane rapier has no value.
Should your DM do this, it is expected that the value will correlate with the item's rarity, but it is absolutely not expected that it will correlate with its underlying item. There is no basis for assuming that should your DM assign a value to your +3 rapier, said value will be based on the value of a normal rapier.
Are you actually arguing that a rapier, +3 would be worth less than an entirely ordinary non-magical rapier?
I might be wrong, but the way I read quindraco's post was saying that the a +3 rapier would logically cost more than a normal rapier, not less. Hence "the value will correlate with the item's rarity, but it is not expected that it will correlate with its underlying item. (as the comment it was a reply to suggested)"
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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What happens if you use the basic effect of Wish (duplicate spell of 8th level or lower) to cast Booming Blade? Since the spell component is necessary for the spell to work, what would happen? Would a weapon be fashioned out of pure magical energy, or would it just be an unarmed strike? The same thing goes for Instant Summons, since the gem has to be present for that spell to work.
Furthermore, can you cast Booming Blade with a spellcasting focus normally? The 1 silver piece requirement on the weapon is clearly intended to make it so that you can't use a spellcasting focus, but if I remember rightly the rule is only for components with gold piece values. Generally, you can use a spellcasting focus to cast Detect Thoughts (component is a copper piece, best joke in DnD), so why is this any different?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Hehe the only thing that would change about booming blade is that it would be harder to counterspell since you're technically casting wish :)
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I know that using Wish to cast a cantrip is pretty stupid, but my question is what it would do with Booming Blade specifically, since the first line of Booming Blade is as follows;
You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you.
Since there is no weapon involved in casting, what would happen?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
The booming damage still occurs, but as there is no blade, you do not get the 'weapon attacks normal effects'.
The first clause of wish does not change what happens in the spell's description. It changes the spell's effective level, and it removes any casting components. You would still need to attack with a weapon because the spell description says so. You could just ignore the part about the weapon needing a monetary value. You could combine booming blade with shadow blade just like you could before the errata--as long as you were willing to spend a 9th level spell slot to do it.
If you want to do that other wacky stuff, I would still allow it, but under wish's second clause, and I would make you roll to see if you retained the ability to cast wish.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I would argue that wish might actually fail in this case if you're going to be really strict about it.
The reason being that wish only says it provides a spell's "requirements" (including costly components), and that the spell then takes effect. To me the requirements of booming blade is that you have a weapon worth 1 sp, wish basically says to ignore that. However, the spell's actual effect is entirely reliant on you actually having that weapon to attack with, so the weapon is both a requirement to cast the spell in the first place, but also a necessary part of the spell's effect, but wish only provides you with the first part.
I mean in practice I doubt anyone's going to be that strict, and even in Rules As Written it's not that clear that this is how you're supposed to interpret it; I certainly wouldn't DM it that way, just wanted to point out an oddity in how these spells actually function.
Alternatively changing the request to "I wish to conjure a sword and use it to cast booming blade as a single action" would fall comfortably within "ask your DM" territory, and it arguably shouldn't come with any consequences since you're asking for a fraction of the 25,000 gp allowance for if you had only created an item, and a cantrip is clearly well below 8th-level. Combining effects in this way obviously requires some kind of cut-off eventually (e.g- a 10,000 gp blade paired with a 5th-level spell) but that's for your DM to decide.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
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Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
You remember wrong. The rules says "But if a cost is indicated for a component" so any cost will do, even if it only a silver or a copper.
With both spells, you'd still need whatever implements the spell's text says you need, but you can ignore the demands of the listed M component, so e.g. for Booming Blade you'd get to ignore the monetary cost and thereby cast the spell with a weapon that costs less (e.g. a torch) or a weapon that has no cost, such as the Shadow Blade spell or a +3 Rapier.
Yes, of course, provided the focus is a weapon worth at least 1 sp (which means it needs to cost at least 1 sp and you need to be willing to treat it as an improvised weapon for the spell). The 1 sp minimum cost on the M component is, according to internet rumor, based on JC misunderstanding how component pouches work and feeling the need to "fix" the spell to work with them.
A +3 rapier wouldn't be considered a rapier for the purpose of having a cost/value?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I suppose if you used Wish to cast Instant Summons, you would still need a sapphire, but it could be tiny and worth a single gold piece instead of 1,000+.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Maybe. Although the instant summons spell description does reference the sapphire, but it calls it out as the spell's component, which is explicitly waived by casting the spell via wish. I wouldn't enforce it, but if you want to lump it in for the sake of consistency, that's fair.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
This is the kind of thing that gets Inevitables sent after you.
Maybe I'm wrong, but in this case I think I would rule that the Wish spell creates what is needed for the spell, in this case a weapon of value 1 sp for Booming Blade and a Sapphire worth at least 1,000 gp for Instant Summons. The difference might be that those objects only exist until fulfilling the Wish, attacking with Booming Blade and Summoning the object in Instant Summons.
If that were the cause, does that mean you would have to use the secondary use of wish? Or could you just create infinite 1,000 gp sapphires?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
In my estimation it would only make one sapphire per casting, so, only infinite sapphires if you cast the spell an infinite about of times.
If your campaign allows for trade in magic items, rarity can also help you set prices for them. As the DM, you determine the value of an individual magic item based on its rarity.
I would argue there is SOME basis for aiming that should your DM assign a value to your +3 rapier, said value will be based on the value of a normal rapier.
And I would argue that the lack of a LISTED value does not suggest the absence of value altogether. No value is listed for a lot of things which other elements of the text suggest must have value. For example, the equipment section of the PHB states that "Members of the nobility trade [...] in legal rights, such as the rights to a mine, a port, or farmland," which certainly suggests that such things have value, but can you find me the given value of the rights to a mine, a port, or farmland?
Are you actually arguing that a rapier, +3 would be worth less than an entirely ordinary non-magical rapier?
I don't think it's in the least bit unreasonable that a +3 version of an item should be at least as valuable as the mundane item that it is an upgrade for; especially since booming blade doesn't actually care what the exact value is, only that it's at at least 1 sp, which it absolutely must be if the bog standard non-magical version costs 25 gp. Hell, at that price part of the blade wrapped in a towel would meet the requirement.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
Per the DMG tables, the minimum value for a magic item is 50GP, anyway. The fact that a DM could rule one as "free" doesn't change that. Just like a DM ruling that you find a mundane rapier in the dirt, therefore paying nothing, doesn't mean the mundane rapier has no value.
I might be wrong, but the way I read quindraco's post was saying that the a +3 rapier would logically cost more than a normal rapier, not less. Hence "the value will correlate with the item's rarity, but it is not expected that it will correlate with its underlying item. (as the comment it was a reply to suggested)"
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)