So I have this predicament with my friends, I'm a human variant druid and have taken the racial feat eldritch adept and picked devils sight. If i wild shape would the feat work on the new morph?
You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.
So is devil's sight a special sense?
It is not listed in the senses section, and for creatures that have it, it is listed as a trait and not with their regular darkvision. I guess this means it is different from a special sense, and therefore is another feature that you can use.
Devils sight is not based on having special eyes that can see in the dark. It is a feature/trait/invocation that allows the creature to see in darkness as if it was brightly lit. Note that Devils sight does NOT give the character darkvision.
In addition, in this case, the devils sight ability is gained by taking the invocation directly which provides the creature with:
"Devil’s Sight: You can see normally in darkness, both magical and nonmagical, to a distance of 120 feet."
It doesn't provide the creature with special eyes granting this ability (unless the DM says that is how it works in their game). It gives the creature the supernatural ability to see normally in darkness - which should apply to whatever form the creature is in.
However, the bottom line, as always, is to ask your DM.
Nope, literally nothing that you can wildshape into as a druid has devils sight. You can’t wildshape into demons or devils so it is irrelevant what vision they have.
Ok sure you cant take the drakvision part but can you get the vision in darkness even with the normal amount of sight you have
No. It says in the text I copied and pasted that you don’t get any special senses such as. The ‘such as’ statement means as an example, or for example, it does not mean only. Sight = sense…. Thats basic biology, touch, taste, smell, hearing, and sight. So if the animal you want to wildshape into does not naturally have it then guess what…
Mechanical the Eldritch Invocation Devil's Sight is a Feature, like all Eldritch Invocations, not a Sense.
Also, a devil's Devils Sight trait, like the Bearded Devil has, is not the same as the Eldritch Invocation Devil's Sight. A devil's Devil's Sight modifies their Darkvision specifically. The Eldritch Invocation Devil's Sight however, doesn't explicitly say what sense it modifies. Presumably it modifies the characters normal vision though as not all playable races have access to Darkvision, as in the OP's case.
Flavor wise, what is enabling your character to see normally in pure darkness (but still be hindered by dim candle light) is a magical boon granted by a powerful being, not your eyes or some other organ in your body.
Although it is certainly true that monster devil's sight works differently than player's, that really wasn't the point of my bringing both up: it was the fact that neither is in fact a sense.
So a bearded devil doesn’t have a trait called Devil’s sight?
Or are you confused that it is a trait instead of a sense?
As I’ve said several times now, the fact that it isn’t a sense is why it works with wild shape.
Firstly the invocation is not the same thing as the devils sight possessed by a bearded devil. It is part of the really sloppy editing from WoTC. It’s the same name for a different ability. Like monk and barbarian unarmored defence - same name but completely different mechanically. But more importantly a druid can’t wildshape into a bearded devil so it is utterly irrelevant.
Although it is certainly true that monster devil's sight works differently than player's, that really wasn't the point of my bringing both up: it was the fact that neither is in fact a sense.
Of course it’s a sense. It’s called devils sight. The clue is in the name. The invocation modifies the persons vision, allowing them to see further and in magical darkness. It’s modifying their sight. To say anything else is just munkinism.
You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.
So is devil's sight a special sense?
It is not listed in the senses section, and for creatures that have it, it is listed as a trait and not with their regular darkvision. I guess this means it is different from a special sense, and therefore is another feature that you can use.
No, it is a trait….. that modifies the dark vision sense. This isn’t rocket science. Devils sight does nothing for a blind character.
Although it is certainly true that monster devil's sight works differently than player's, that really wasn't the point of my bringing both up: it was the fact that neither is in fact a sense.
Of course it’s a sense. It’s called devils sight. The clue is in the name. The invocation modifies the persons vision, allowing them to see further and in magical darkness. It’s modifying their sight. To say anything else is just munkinism.
I mean it isn't called a sense anywhere. You could just show me where it is called a sense if it were. Otherwise, we just have to take your word. If you're just going to go by the name and refuse the text, then you will continue to be wrong. It is a trait or an invocation. Special sense that beast type monster have are the senses listed in the senses in the MM. It is pretty simple.
Although it is certainly true that monster devil's sight works differently than player's, that really wasn't the point of my bringing both up: it was the fact that neither is in fact a sense.
Of course it’s a sense. It’s called devils sight. The clue is in the name. The invocation modifies the persons vision, allowing them to see further and in magical darkness. It’s modifying their sight. To say anything else is just munkinism.
Names are not necessarily indicative of what something is, consider the spell Chill Touch for example.
Also, other problems arise if you consider the Eldritch Invocation Devil's Sight to be an independent sense. What happens when the character is Blinded? It doesn't rely on light like Blindsight, so would it still work?
At best you can consider Eldritch Invocation Devil's Sight a modification to your normal sight and almost all Beasts have access to normal sight and so it qualifies that way.
Although it is certainly true that monster devil's sight works differently than player's, that really wasn't the point of my bringing both up: it was the fact that neither is in fact a sense.
Of course it’s a sense. It’s called devils sight. The clue is in the name. The invocation modifies the persons vision, allowing them to see further and in magical darkness. It’s modifying their sight. To say anything else is just munkinism.
I mean it isn't called a sense anywhere. You could just show me where it is called a sense if it were. Otherwise, we just have to take your word. If you're just going to go by the name and refuse the text, then you will continue to be wrong. It is a trait or an invocation. Special sense that beast type monster have are the senses listed in the senses in the MM. It is pretty simple.
Are you seriously trying to argue that the sense of sight is not actually a sense? This has become a pointless discussion.
Although it is certainly true that monster devil's sight works differently than player's, that really wasn't the point of my bringing both up: it was the fact that neither is in fact a sense.
Of course it’s a sense. It’s called devils sight. The clue is in the name. The invocation modifies the persons vision, allowing them to see further and in magical darkness. It’s modifying their sight. To say anything else is just munkinism.
I mean it isn't called a sense anywhere. You could just show me where it is called a sense if it were. Otherwise, we just have to take your word. If you're just going to go by the name and refuse the text, then you will continue to be wrong. It is a trait or an invocation. Special sense that beast type monster have are the senses listed in the senses in the MM. It is pretty simple.
Are you seriously trying to argue that the sense of sight is not actually a sense? This has become a pointless discussion.
No, I'm not arguing about sight. I'm aruging about Devil's Sight. Are you arguing that Devil's sight is regular sight?
I doubt anyone who has read the invocations would say that Eldritch Sight is a sense, but it still has sight in the name.
So I have this predicament with my friends, I'm a human variant druid and have taken the racial feat eldritch adept and picked devils sight. If i wild shape would the feat work on the new morph?
So is devil's sight a special sense?
It is not listed in the senses section, and for creatures that have it, it is listed as a trait and not with their regular darkvision. I guess this means it is different from a special sense, and therefore is another feature that you can use.
No natural animal has devils sight, so no. It clearly comes under;
However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.
Nowhere do the rules call devil's sight a sense. It is a trait or an invocation.
Ok sure you cant take the drakvision part but can you get the vision in darkness even with the normal amount of sight you have
Devils sight is not based on having special eyes that can see in the dark. It is a feature/trait/invocation that allows the creature to see in darkness as if it was brightly lit. Note that Devils sight does NOT give the character darkvision.
In addition, in this case, the devils sight ability is gained by taking the invocation directly which provides the creature with:
"Devil’s Sight: You can see normally in darkness, both magical and nonmagical, to a distance of 120 feet."
It doesn't provide the creature with special eyes granting this ability (unless the DM says that is how it works in their game). It gives the creature the supernatural ability to see normally in darkness - which should apply to whatever form the creature is in.
However, the bottom line, as always, is to ask your DM.
No monster has devil's sight, which is why it isn't mentioned in the Senses section of the Monster Statistics chapter.
Wait? Devils don’t have the devils sight trait?
Nope, literally nothing that you can wildshape into as a druid has devils sight. You can’t wildshape into demons or devils so it is irrelevant what vision they have.
No. It says in the text I copied and pasted that you don’t get any special senses such as. The ‘such as’ statement means as an example, or for example, it does not mean only. Sight = sense…. Thats basic biology, touch, taste, smell, hearing, and sight. So if the animal you want to wildshape into does not naturally have it then guess what…
So a bearded devil doesn’t have a trait called Devil’s sight?
Or are you confused that it is a trait instead of a sense?
As I’ve said several times now, the fact that it isn’t a sense is why it works with wild shape.
Mechanical the Eldritch Invocation Devil's Sight is a Feature, like all Eldritch Invocations, not a Sense.
Also, a devil's Devils Sight trait, like the Bearded Devil has, is not the same as the Eldritch Invocation Devil's Sight. A devil's Devil's Sight modifies their Darkvision specifically. The Eldritch Invocation Devil's Sight however, doesn't explicitly say what sense it modifies. Presumably it modifies the characters normal vision though as not all playable races have access to Darkvision, as in the OP's case.
Flavor wise, what is enabling your character to see normally in pure darkness (but still be hindered by dim candle light) is a magical boon granted by a powerful being, not your eyes or some other organ in your body.
Although it is certainly true that monster devil's sight works differently than player's, that really wasn't the point of my bringing both up: it was the fact that neither is in fact a sense.
Firstly the invocation is not the same thing as the devils sight possessed by a bearded devil. It is part of the really sloppy editing from WoTC. It’s the same name for a different ability. Like monk and barbarian unarmored defence - same name but completely different mechanically. But more importantly a druid can’t wildshape into a bearded devil so it is utterly irrelevant.
Of course it’s a sense. It’s called devils sight. The clue is in the name. The invocation modifies the persons vision, allowing them to see further and in magical darkness. It’s modifying their sight. To say anything else is just munkinism.
No, it is a trait….. that modifies the dark vision sense. This isn’t rocket science. Devils sight does nothing for a blind character.
I mean it isn't called a sense anywhere. You could just show me where it is called a sense if it were. Otherwise, we just have to take your word. If you're just going to go by the name and refuse the text, then you will continue to be wrong. It is a trait or an invocation. Special sense that beast type monster have are the senses listed in the senses in the MM. It is pretty simple.
Names are not necessarily indicative of what something is, consider the spell Chill Touch for example.
Also, other problems arise if you consider the Eldritch Invocation Devil's Sight to be an independent sense. What happens when the character is Blinded? It doesn't rely on light like Blindsight, so would it still work?
At best you can consider Eldritch Invocation Devil's Sight a modification to your normal sight and almost all Beasts have access to normal sight and so it qualifies that way.
Are you seriously trying to argue that the sense of sight is not actually a sense? This has become a pointless discussion.
No, I'm not arguing about sight. I'm aruging about Devil's Sight. Are you arguing that Devil's sight is regular sight?
I doubt anyone who has read the invocations would say that Eldritch Sight is a sense, but it still has sight in the name.