I guess that then raises the question about an illusory wall, if the party knows its an illusion then they can see through it but others who don't can't see through it? So they'd be free to attack, cast LoS spells while those on the other side couldn't?
I guess that then raises the question about an illusory wall, if the party knows its an illusion then they can see through it but others who don't can't see through it? So they'd be free to attack, cast LoS spells while those on the other side couldn't?
Correct -- although having arrows and spells sail through the wall will reveal the illusion pretty quickly, so it's a trick that generally only works for one round
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Active characters:
Askatu, hyperfocused vedalken freedom fighter in Wildspace (Zealot barb/Swashbuckler rogue/Battle Master fighter) Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I guess that then raises the question about an illusory wall, if the party knows its an illusion then they can see through it but others who don't can't see through it? So they'd be free to attack, cast LoS spells while those on the other side couldn't?
Correct -- although having arrows and spells sail through the wall will reveal the illusion pretty quickly, so it's a trick that generally only works for one round
Spells that don't travel through the illusion and instead just affect the target (like Toll the Dead) would be great for this scenario.
That's a good way of looking at it. All spells need a direct path to the target, but not all spells produce a perceptible connection between the caster and the target. The latter category would be less likely to automatically give up the illusion by using them.
I guess that then raises the question about an illusory wall, if the party knows its an illusion then they can see through it but others who don't can't see through it? So they'd be free to attack, cast LoS spells while those on the other side couldn't?
Correct -- although having arrows and spells sail through the wall will reveal the illusion pretty quickly, so it's a trick that generally only works for one round
Spells that don't travel through the illusion and instead just affect the target (like Toll the Dead) would be great for this scenario.
Except Toll the Dead has a verbal component, so the target will be hearing the verbals from seemingly beyond a wall - but the wall won't be muffling the verbal sounds at all.
I guess that then raises the question about an illusory wall, if the party knows its an illusion then they can see through it but others who don't can't see through it? So they'd be free to attack, cast LoS spells while those on the other side couldn't?
Correct -- although having arrows and spells sail through the wall will reveal the illusion pretty quickly, so it's a trick that generally only works for one round
Spells that don't travel through the illusion and instead just affect the target (like Toll the Dead) would be great for this scenario.
Except Toll the Dead has a verbal component, so the target will be hearing the verbals from seemingly beyond a wall - but the wall won't be muffling the verbal sounds at all.
That doesn't matter. Hearing your voice from behind what appears to be a rock or wall is not the same as something physically passing through the illusion, and thus the illusion remains unbroken. And a character could speak into a hand to muffle the voice.
Also, the spell isn't dependent on the target hearing the verbal component, so it's not out of the question for the DM to call for a stealth vs perception contexted check for the caster to whisper the component to not be heard.
For hiding inside a boulder, sure. I'd give advantage on the group stealth check if its a couple of people, depending on the size of the boulder. A larger group might just get the ability to have a normal stealth check. Any large movement or sound would require a stealth check with disadvantage (a sword or leg momentarily poking through the illusion at an inopportune time..)
I'd allow for a perception or investigation check if someone hears voices that could be coming from inside a boulder or behind a wall. As above, depending on the circumstance a DM might ask for a stealth check (or perhaps Arcana or even Performance) to obfuscate the sound or source of the sound.
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Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
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If the party is using an illusion to hide, for example inside a large boulder. Can they see through it or does also block their vision?
It can depend on the illusion, but spells like Minor Illusion and Major Image have wording along the lines of
Since you are inside of the boulder, you are aware that it is an illusion, so you can see through it.
I guess that then raises the question about an illusory wall, if the party knows its an illusion then they can see through it but others who don't can't see through it? So they'd be free to attack, cast LoS spells while those on the other side couldn't?
Correct -- although having arrows and spells sail through the wall will reveal the illusion pretty quickly, so it's a trick that generally only works for one round
Active characters:
Askatu, hyperfocused vedalken freedom fighter in Wildspace (Zealot barb/Swashbuckler rogue/Battle Master fighter)
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Spells that don't travel through the illusion and instead just affect the target (like Toll the Dead) would be great for this scenario.
That's a good way of looking at it. All spells need a direct path to the target, but not all spells produce a perceptible connection between the caster and the target. The latter category would be less likely to automatically give up the illusion by using them.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Except Toll the Dead has a verbal component, so the target will be hearing the verbals from seemingly beyond a wall - but the wall won't be muffling the verbal sounds at all.
That doesn't matter. Hearing your voice from behind what appears to be a rock or wall is not the same as something physically passing through the illusion, and thus the illusion remains unbroken. And a character could speak into a hand to muffle the voice.
Also, the spell isn't dependent on the target hearing the verbal component, so it's not out of the question for the DM to call for a stealth vs perception contexted check for the caster to whisper the component to not be heard.
For hiding inside a boulder, sure. I'd give advantage on the group stealth check if its a couple of people, depending on the size of the boulder. A larger group might just get the ability to have a normal stealth check. Any large movement or sound would require a stealth check with disadvantage (a sword or leg momentarily poking through the illusion at an inopportune time..)
I'd allow for a perception or investigation check if someone hears voices that could be coming from inside a boulder or behind a wall. As above, depending on the circumstance a DM might ask for a stealth check (or perhaps Arcana or even Performance) to obfuscate the sound or source of the sound.
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.