Control Water, specifically the Whirlpool effect, reads:
Whirlpool: This Effect requires a body of water at least 50 feet square and 25 feet deep. You cause a whirlpool to form in the center of the area. The whirlpool forms a vortex that is 5 feet wide at the base, up to 50 feet wide at the top, and 25 feet tall. Any creature or object in the water and within 25 feet of the vortex is pulled 10 feet toward it. A creature can swim away from the vortex by making a Strength (Athletics) check against your spell save DC. When a creature enters the vortex for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 bludgeoning damage and is caught in the vortex until the spell ends. On a successful save, the creature takes half damage, and isn't caught in the vortex. A creature caught in the vortex can use its Action to try to swim away from the vortex as described above, but has disadvantage on the Strength (Athletics) check to do so. The first time each turn that an object enters the vortex, the object takes 2d8 bludgeoning damage, this damage occurs each round it remains in the vortex.
I've been hoping to use this in a campaign, but this description has me scratching my head quite a bit, both on its own and in conjunction with the rest of the spell. Several observations of note: The 10 foot pull seems to only occur once, so if you're more than 10 feet from the vortex, you get tugged a bit but are in no danger of being sucked in. Also, it doesn't say you get pulled toward the center, so any pulling on creatures already in that area is unclear. The vortex is "5 feet wide at the base", but I can't think of what this information could possibly be for. the entire vortex seems uniform mechanically. Despite being a whirlpool, no radial motion is mentioned, it would seem that creatures just sit still in the water, trying their best to crawl out, while taking damage from water in the face. Unlike all the other uses of the spell, this one does not say it ends if you choose to do something else with the spell, like make huge waves. This isn't a problem, but it is surprising.
There's also the fact that these effects allow for repeat usage. You could leave your whirlpool as is or you could repeat it to... I'm not sure. It isn't like it does damage immediately when you cast it. Maybe pumping more actions into it will draw enemies 10 feet closer repeatedly? But it seems (unintentionally perhaps) that you could just use redirect flow or waves to push them right into it directly. Then there are really basic things that confuse me more like "The whirlpool forms a vortex". Uh, wait, are they different things? And then there's how failing the save gets them caught "until the spell ends" but they still make the saving throw every turn inside?
I feel like I need someone to make a flowchart explaining this to me. Actually, I feel as if I can understand a lot of the intent behind it, but that it's worded so poorly that it stops making sense. Do you agree, or am I just not getting it?
Control Water, specifically the Whirlpool effect, reads:
Whirlpool: This Effect requires a body of water at least 50 feet square and 25 feet deep. You cause a whirlpool to form in the center of the area. The whirlpool forms a vortex that is 5 feet wide at the base, up to 50 feet wide at the top, and 25 feet tall. Any creature or object in the water and within 25 feet of the vortex is pulled 10 feet toward it. A creature can swim away from the vortex by making a Strength (Athletics) check against your spell save DC. When a creature enters the vortex for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 bludgeoning damage and is caught in the vortex until the spell ends. On a successful save, the creature takes half damage, and isn't caught in the vortex. A creature caught in the vortex can use its Action to try to swim away from the vortex as described above, but has disadvantage on the Strength (Athletics) check to do so. The first time each turn that an object enters the vortex, the object takes 2d8 bludgeoning damage, this damage occurs each round it remains in the vortex.
I've been hoping to use this in a campaign, but this description has me scratching my head quite a bit, both on its own and in conjunction with the rest of the spell. Several observations of note: The 10 foot pull seems to only occur once, so if you're more than 10 feet from the vortex, you get tugged a bit but are in no danger of being sucked in.
"Only occur once" is misleading because you left out this piece of text in the spell: "As an action on your turn, you can repeat the same effect or choose a different one." If you want to spend your action spamming the whirlpool, you'll also spam the drag.
Also, it doesn't say you get pulled toward the center, so any pulling on creatures already in that area is unclear.
Correct. Creatures outside the vortex but within 25' of it are pulled.
The vortex is "5 feet wide at the base", but I can't think of what this information could possibly be for. the entire vortex seems uniform mechanically.
Just treat the vortex as an upside-down pentahedron that's always twice the diameter of its height: at 10' up it's 20' wide, at 15' up it's 30' wide, and so on until at 25' up it's 50' wide.
Despite being a whirlpool, no radial motion is mentioned, it would seem that creatures just sit still in the water, trying their best to crawl out, while taking damage from water in the face.
Yes.
Unlike all the other uses of the spell, this one does not say it ends if you choose to do something else with the spell, like make huge waves. This isn't a problem, but it is surprising.
Right, you can spam new vortices and the old ones won't vanish.
There's also the fact that these effects allow for repeat usage. You could leave your whirlpool as is or you could repeat it to... I'm not sure.
Aside from additional whirlpools being additional hazards, each one pulls when it spawns. In addition, it's pretty poorly defined what happens to a creature stuck in multiple whirlpools at once, so you'll need to ask your DM if each one deals independent damage or if being in any vortex means you only take the base damage regardless of vortex count.
It isn't like it does damage immediately when you cast it. Maybe pumping more actions into it will draw enemies 10 feet closer repeatedly? But it seems (unintentionally perhaps) that you could just use redirect flow or waves to push them right into it directly. Then there are really basic things that confuse me more like "The whirlpool forms a vortex". Uh, wait, are they different things?
Not in a way that matters for your purposes.
And then there's how failing the save gets them caught "until the spell ends" but they still make the saving throw every turn inside?
Yes, they have to keep saving against the damage, whether they're stuck or not. Once you fail the save, succeeding on a later one won't spring you - you have to succeed on an Athletics check with disadvantage to get out once you're stuck.
I feel like I need someone to make a flowchart explaining this to me. Actually, I feel as if I can understand a lot of the intent behind it, but that it's worded so poorly that it stops making sense. Do you agree, or am I just not getting it?
I am playing a Druid in a seafaring campaign whose entire identity is built around the sea and tides. We'll hit 7th level in a month or so and I'll get 4th level spells. So I've been studying the hell out of this one, as it should just epitomize her, but it just leaves me with a million questions like you. It's full of so much epic possibility, but also so poorly defined, I know it's going to make me feel like a player trying to talk their DM into something rules-bendy.
It even makes its basic geometry confusing by saying you need a body 25 feet deep for the whirpool, but that the whirlpool has a vortex that is 25 feet tall. Does this mean that there is a whirlpool, a pool of whirling water, and at its center is a "vortex" that is not the whirlpool itself and is some kind of pillar of water rising up into the sky?
Another bummer about this spell, when you consider it in the seafaring sense (which is where it should shine), is it only effects vehicles that are Huge or smaller. Practically speaking, that means you can effect exactly one kind of seafaring vehicle with it - a rowboat. Every other existing vehicle is Gargantuan. I'm not saying a 4th level spell should be able to capsize a warship, but like... couldn't it nudge it a bit? Give it "difficult terrain"? Something?
What's telling is, while there are articles and videos providing explanations and visualizations of just about every spell in 5E, nobody is touching this one, even though its been around from the beginning (Basic Rules.) So, I'm just going to meet with my DM and talk it over with him to decide how this spell actually works in his world, because to quindraco's point, this sure doesn't feel like it's been playtested in any world.
I went on such a rant I forgot my other point of this spell not even explaining the simple parts well. A very important effect is this part: "On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 bludgeoning damage and is caught in the vortex until the spell ends." Catching someone in a vortex for 10 solid minutes sounds great, except... caught is not a defined condition. Someone "caught in the vortex" doesn't seem to suffer any effects except it takes a Strength check to swim away from the vortex. But, whilst in the vortex, they're free to do whatever? They can freely move about at normal movement rate (within the vortex), use weapons, cast spells, etc... ?
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Control Water, specifically the Whirlpool effect, reads:
I've been hoping to use this in a campaign, but this description has me scratching my head quite a bit, both on its own and in conjunction with the rest of the spell. Several observations of note:
The 10 foot pull seems to only occur once, so if you're more than 10 feet from the vortex, you get tugged a bit but are in no danger of being sucked in. Also, it doesn't say you get pulled toward the center, so any pulling on creatures already in that area is unclear.
The vortex is "5 feet wide at the base", but I can't think of what this information could possibly be for. the entire vortex seems uniform mechanically.
Despite being a whirlpool, no radial motion is mentioned, it would seem that creatures just sit still in the water, trying their best to crawl out, while taking damage from water in the face.
Unlike all the other uses of the spell, this one does not say it ends if you choose to do something else with the spell, like make huge waves. This isn't a problem, but it is surprising.
There's also the fact that these effects allow for repeat usage. You could leave your whirlpool as is or you could repeat it to... I'm not sure. It isn't like it does damage immediately when you cast it. Maybe pumping more actions into it will draw enemies 10 feet closer repeatedly? But it seems (unintentionally perhaps) that you could just use redirect flow or waves to push them right into it directly. Then there are really basic things that confuse me more like "The whirlpool forms a vortex". Uh, wait, are they different things? And then there's how failing the save gets them caught "until the spell ends" but they still make the saving throw every turn inside?
I feel like I need someone to make a flowchart explaining this to me. Actually, I feel as if I can understand a lot of the intent behind it, but that it's worded so poorly that it stops making sense. Do you agree, or am I just not getting it?
"Only occur once" is misleading because you left out this piece of text in the spell: "As an action on your turn, you can repeat the same effect or choose a different one." If you want to spend your action spamming the whirlpool, you'll also spam the drag.
Correct. Creatures outside the vortex but within 25' of it are pulled.
Just treat the vortex as an upside-down pentahedron that's always twice the diameter of its height: at 10' up it's 20' wide, at 15' up it's 30' wide, and so on until at 25' up it's 50' wide.
Yes.
Right, you can spam new vortices and the old ones won't vanish.
Aside from additional whirlpools being additional hazards, each one pulls when it spawns. In addition, it's pretty poorly defined what happens to a creature stuck in multiple whirlpools at once, so you'll need to ask your DM if each one deals independent damage or if being in any vortex means you only take the base damage regardless of vortex count.
Not in a way that matters for your purposes.
Yes, they have to keep saving against the damage, whether they're stuck or not. Once you fail the save, succeeding on a later one won't spring you - you have to succeed on an Athletics check with disadvantage to get out once you're stuck.
You're not wrong. I doubt it was ever playtested.
I am playing a Druid in a seafaring campaign whose entire identity is built around the sea and tides. We'll hit 7th level in a month or so and I'll get 4th level spells. So I've been studying the hell out of this one, as it should just epitomize her, but it just leaves me with a million questions like you. It's full of so much epic possibility, but also so poorly defined, I know it's going to make me feel like a player trying to talk their DM into something rules-bendy.
It even makes its basic geometry confusing by saying you need a body 25 feet deep for the whirpool, but that the whirlpool has a vortex that is 25 feet tall. Does this mean that there is a whirlpool, a pool of whirling water, and at its center is a "vortex" that is not the whirlpool itself and is some kind of pillar of water rising up into the sky?
Another bummer about this spell, when you consider it in the seafaring sense (which is where it should shine), is it only effects vehicles that are Huge or smaller. Practically speaking, that means you can effect exactly one kind of seafaring vehicle with it - a rowboat. Every other existing vehicle is Gargantuan. I'm not saying a 4th level spell should be able to capsize a warship, but like... couldn't it nudge it a bit? Give it "difficult terrain"? Something?
What's telling is, while there are articles and videos providing explanations and visualizations of just about every spell in 5E, nobody is touching this one, even though its been around from the beginning (Basic Rules.) So, I'm just going to meet with my DM and talk it over with him to decide how this spell actually works in his world, because to quindraco's point, this sure doesn't feel like it's been playtested in any world.
I went on such a rant I forgot my other point of this spell not even explaining the simple parts well. A very important effect is this part: "On a failed save, the creature takes 2d8 bludgeoning damage and is caught in the vortex until the spell ends." Catching someone in a vortex for 10 solid minutes sounds great, except... caught is not a defined condition. Someone "caught in the vortex" doesn't seem to suffer any effects except it takes a Strength check to swim away from the vortex. But, whilst in the vortex, they're free to do whatever? They can freely move about at normal movement rate (within the vortex), use weapons, cast spells, etc... ?