So, tieflings are only a thing because humans of an ancient empire made a deal with Asmodeus, and he cursed them with their devilish appearance. Would it be a stretch to assume that if a tiefling were to get through the Nine Hells and talk to Asmodeus, they could undo this and make tieflings everywhere normal humans?
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“Never trust the storyteller. Only trust the story.” ― Neil Gaiman, Fables & Reflections
Devils (especially the big ones) play the long con (speaking in terms of millennia). An agreement can always be made for pretty much anything, however those agreements should always end up benefiting the devil more than anyone. It's their business to come out on top. It's what they do.
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And I thought tieflings were just a genetics thing. So, half-orcs are the spawn of humans that eat too much? *head scratch* Aasimars from people with over-inflated Imaginary Friend Syndrome?
If the premise of tieflings is based on an ancient curse of Asmodeus, think of it as a Constitutional Amendment not related to alcohol: once it's on the books, forever it will remain on the books until the end of the "empire" of Asmodeus. That leaves two options: take out Asmodeus or go Star Trek and go back in time and prevent the pact from happening in the first place. Either option should make for an epic campaign.
I seriously recommend reading the "Brimstone Angels" books by Erin M Evans, as they deal with exactly this question (and tons more, including huge bits of the Sundering). Without spoiling anything, the question is not easily answered.
I seriously recommend reading the "Brimstone Angels" books by Erin M Evans, as they deal with exactly this question (and tons more, including huge bits of the Sundering). Without spoiling anything, the question is not easily answered.
I dont know why you would want to go through all if that trouble. Tieflings aren't damned or anything by default. Sure, they have that social pariah thing going on, but that's just society and your mileage may vary.
Besides, Asmodeus probably benefits in some way by having a sizable number of mortals with devilish traits out in the world. There will always be some who will bargain with him, and Tieflings are walking reminders that Asmodeus is real and active.
I don't think you'd get him to unmake Tieflings without some crazy bargain.
More than anything else, I consider Devils (and Asmodeus by extension) to be creatures of Law. They use Evil to achieve their goals, but they follow the rules in doing it. Those rules may even be balanced way in their favor, but they don't break their word. So, you could do this as a player, and a DM could build a fantastic story around this goal. The question after "Can I" is "How do I?". As said by someone in the thread, Devils don't take deals that don't benefit them. They're immortal, and unless something is threatening their existence right now, they can afford to play for long-term goals. This is especially true for Asmodeus, since he's actually a God. If a single Tiefling wanted to get Asmodeus to change the deal, they would need to offer something in exchange, which lets the DM decide "What does a God want?". This is a high player-level goal, as Gods generally don't bother with anyone until, in my mind, at least 10th level.
I think of tieflings as having a kind of blood curse/genetic mutation. I have a tiefling wizard (hermit background) who discovered that there may be a way to purify the fiend out of them. I am hoping he will change into an Aasimar if he ever figures it out.
That would be an interesting homebrew version of the story. The Player's Handbook and Volo's Guide directly contradict that idea, but it would be a cool character journey.
That would be an interesting homebrew version of the story. The Player's Handbook and Volo's Guide directly contradict that idea, but it would be a cool character journey.
As the PH and Volo's are Forgotten Realms orientated, I'd say tieflings of the Realms are predominately of the "curse" origin. Yet, prior to 5E, tieflings/aasimars/genasi, effectively all the "plane-touched" super-humanoids had their uniqueness manifest based on "blood", aka genetics. Tieflings are not alu-demons, or cambions, but their genetic origin comes from such a source in all likelihood. But hey, let's whitewash it and call it the Curse of Asmodeus. *shrugs* Semantics really.
I understand that the previous origins were awesome. Plane-touched individuals are great. I would be willing to entertain the old usage of the race for purposes of a campaign, especially because you're right that the books tend to treat the FR as the default. It's not like a diety-written contract is a lame way to create a race. The book even mentions how no one knows the terms of the contract, except Asmodeus, so it's wonderful fodder for DMs. Considering 5th is the current edition, I think it's fair to speak of it as the modern approach, while recognizing that older versions are also awesome in their own ways, and should be kept in mind when dealing with character plots.
So, tieflings are only a thing because humans of an ancient empire made a deal with Asmodeus, and he cursed them with their devilish appearance. Would it be a stretch to assume that if a tiefling were to get through the Nine Hells and talk to Asmodeus, they could undo this and make tieflings everywhere normal humans?
The demonic elements may disappear, though it may be possible they wouldn't exactly be humans any more. And while it is a theoretical possibility it's doubtful Asmodeus would agree.
So, tieflings are only a thing because humans of an ancient empire made a deal with Asmodeus, and he cursed them with their devilish appearance. Would it be a stretch to assume that if a tiefling were to get through the Nine Hells and talk to Asmodeus, they could undo this and make tieflings everywhere normal humans?
“Never trust the storyteller. Only trust the story.” ― Neil Gaiman, Fables & Reflections
Good luck talking with Asmodeus.
Even if they could talk to Asmodeus, why would he make them human again, let alone, all of them?
Even so, it'd be a cool character goal.
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Devils (especially the big ones) play the long con (speaking in terms of millennia). An agreement can always be made for pretty much anything, however those agreements should always end up benefiting the devil more than anyone. It's their business to come out on top. It's what they do.
Welcome to the Grand Illusion, come on in and see what's happening, pay the price, get your ticket for the show....
And I thought tieflings were just a genetics thing. So, half-orcs are the spawn of humans that eat too much? *head scratch* Aasimars from people with over-inflated Imaginary Friend Syndrome?
If the premise of tieflings is based on an ancient curse of Asmodeus, think of it as a Constitutional Amendment not related to alcohol: once it's on the books, forever it will remain on the books until the end of the "empire" of Asmodeus. That leaves two options: take out Asmodeus or go Star Trek and go back in time and prevent the pact from happening in the first place. Either option should make for an epic campaign.
We all leave footprints in the sands of time.
I seriously recommend reading the "Brimstone Angels" books by Erin M Evans, as they deal with exactly this question (and tons more, including huge bits of the Sundering). Without spoiling anything, the question is not easily answered.
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
I dont know why you would want to go through all if that trouble. Tieflings aren't damned or anything by default. Sure, they have that social pariah thing going on, but that's just society and your mileage may vary.
Besides, Asmodeus probably benefits in some way by having a sizable number of mortals with devilish traits out in the world. There will always be some who will bargain with him, and Tieflings are walking reminders that Asmodeus is real and active.
I don't think you'd get him to unmake Tieflings without some crazy bargain.
More than anything else, I consider Devils (and Asmodeus by extension) to be creatures of Law. They use Evil to achieve their goals, but they follow the rules in doing it. Those rules may even be balanced way in their favor, but they don't break their word. So, you could do this as a player, and a DM could build a fantastic story around this goal. The question after "Can I" is "How do I?". As said by someone in the thread, Devils don't take deals that don't benefit them. They're immortal, and unless something is threatening their existence right now, they can afford to play for long-term goals. This is especially true for Asmodeus, since he's actually a God. If a single Tiefling wanted to get Asmodeus to change the deal, they would need to offer something in exchange, which lets the DM decide "What does a God want?". This is a high player-level goal, as Gods generally don't bother with anyone until, in my mind, at least 10th level.
I think of tieflings as having a kind of blood curse/genetic mutation. I have a tiefling wizard (hermit background) who discovered that there may be a way to purify the fiend out of them. I am hoping he will change into an Aasimar if he ever figures it out.
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That would be an interesting homebrew version of the story. The Player's Handbook and Volo's Guide directly contradict that idea, but it would be a cool character journey.
We all leave footprints in the sands of time.
I understand that the previous origins were awesome. Plane-touched individuals are great. I would be willing to entertain the old usage of the race for purposes of a campaign, especially because you're right that the books tend to treat the FR as the default. It's not like a diety-written contract is a lame way to create a race. The book even mentions how no one knows the terms of the contract, except Asmodeus, so it's wonderful fodder for DMs. Considering 5th is the current edition, I think it's fair to speak of it as the modern approach, while recognizing that older versions are also awesome in their own ways, and should be kept in mind when dealing with character plots.
Umm, tieflings can trace their origin back to 1945, when the nazis opened up an interdimensional portal on a small island near Scotland.... ;P