So I'm fairly new to Dnd but I've been think of varies builds to try and poisons was one of them. And reading what you guys are taking about would poison crafting be better as a way to make money if buying them is so expensive could you make a character focused on selling over using?
There's really no way to "make money" in 5E in the way you're thinking, the game moves at the speed of the narrative. The availability, friendliness, and stock of merchants isn't really something that exists as an external constant you can exploit, so much as a function of your DM's story. You're about as likely to "make money" crafting and selling poisons, as you are by selling monster parts, selling spellcasting, robbing merchants, etc. etc.... if your DM wants you to be able to pick up an extra grand whenever you hit town, sure, why not. If they don't, doesn't matter what poisons you've made, folks won't buy them, or they'll be illegal, etc.
When building your character, focus on the story you want to tell, and the play style you want to have in combat. Don't try to break the economy, because a lot of games barely have one.
First off a vial can cover 1 weapon or 3 ammunition and remains for a minute not 3 uses. If you Ranger shoots 3 arrows mobs goes down and take time to retrieve them its still got for a min. If the rogue uses his first turn to action apply poison and bonus action hide then he can hack and slash for 1min with a poisoned weapon.
All poisons unless instant inhaled, ingested etc. Once apply last a min.
First off a vial can cover 1 weapon or 3 ammunition and remains for a minute not 3 uses. If you Ranger shoots 3 arrows mobs goes down and take time to retrieve them its still got for a min. If the rogue uses his first turn to action apply poison and bonus action hide then he can hack and slash for 1min with a poisoned weapon.
All poisons unless instant inhaled, ingested etc. Once apply last a min.
Not all poison, just the basic poison. According to DMG other injury poisons remains potent until delivered through a wound or washed off.
Injury. Injury poison can be applied to weapons, ammunition, trap components, and other objects that deal piercing or slashing damage and remains potent until delivered through a wound or washed off. A creature that takes piercing or slashing damage from an object coated with the poison is exposed to its effects.
There's really no way to "make money" in 5E in the way you're thinking, the game moves at the speed of the narrative. The availability, friendliness, and stock of merchants isn't really something that exists as an external constant you can exploit, so much as a function of your DM's story. You're about as likely to "make money" crafting and selling poisons, as you are by selling monster parts, selling spellcasting, robbing merchants, etc. etc.... if your DM wants you to be able to pick up an extra grand whenever you hit town, sure, why not. If they don't, doesn't matter what poisons you've made, folks won't buy them, or they'll be illegal, etc.
When building your character, focus on the story you want to tell, and the play style you want to have in combat. Don't try to break the economy, because a lot of games barely have one.
A fine case of “Well, yes, but no”, because: this should be something you discuss with your DM/GM; and furthermore, the DMG specifically covers constructing an entire world, including a Market & Guild Network, bundled alongside Settlement (Village/Town/City/etcetera) sizes; meaning: the economy should exist quite robustly; that being said, your point actually still stands quite strongly because of your other referenced objections:
The availability, friendliness, and stock of merchants
You're about as likely to “make money” crafting and selling poisons, as you are by selling monster parts, selling spellcasting, robbing merchants, etcetera, etc.
A robust economy will maintain a limited economic availability, limited stockpile, and limited material availability. Spellcasting services might require you turning away desperate customers just because they couldn't afford your services; you could offer these customers a discount, but your own resource availability would in turn suffer (temporarily) and this might become a problem if enough paying customers show up to strain these resources, comparable to spellcasting in battle situations too.
I have a question, particularly in regards to the actions of the Monster Manual NPC: Assassin, found on pg 343 of the MM.
The Stat block lists the actions of the Assassin as:
Actions
Multiattack. The assassin makes two shortsword attacks.
Shortsword. Melee Weapon Attack:+6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d6 + 3) piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw, taking 24 (7d6) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
(as well as a poisoned crossbow.)
The question for debate is, do the MM NPC Assassins follow the same rules for poison as listed in the PHB and DMG? The damage listed is the same as wyvern injury poison, which, per the DMG, costs 1200gp/dose and lasts "until delivered through a wound."
So first off, if both attacks of the multiattack are successful, is the poison counted twice? If so, what happens on the subsequent rounds? The MM description doesn't explicitly say one hit only, so how do we read this?
If we say one-and-done until reapplied, then the assassin's CR8 rating is a bit overstating the case. If it's poison-every-hit, it's incredibly super-powered and begs the question of what can the party do with this weapon once the Assassin is dispatched?
I am interested to know how this has played out over the years, and if there is any 'official' ruling on the topic?
I have a question, particularly in regards to the actions of the Monster Manual NPC: Assassin, found on pg 343 of the MM.
The Stat block lists the actions of the Assassin as:
Actions
Multiattack. The assassin makes two shortsword attacks.
Shortsword. Melee Weapon Attack:+6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d6 + 3) piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw, taking 24 (7d6) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
(as well as a poisoned crossbow.)
The question for debate is, do the MM NPC Assassins follow the same rules for poison as listed in the PHB and DMG? The damage listed is the same as wyvern injury poison, which, per the DMG, costs 1200gp/dose and lasts "until delivered through a wound."
So first off, if both attacks of the multiattack are successful, is the poison counted twice? If so, what happens on the subsequent rounds? The MM description doesn't explicitly say one hit only, so how do we read this?
If we say one-and-done until reapplied, then the assassin's CR8 rating is a bit overstating the case. If it's poison-every-hit, it's incredibly super-powered and begs the question of what can the party do with this weapon once the Assassin is dispatched?
I am interested to know how this has played out over the years, and if there is any 'official' ruling on the topic?
I don't think there has been any Sage Advice or the like issued over something like this.
However, from just the text of the Assassin's stat block it deals the poison damage on all of its attacks. From a balance perspective this is in line with other CR8 monsters like the Chain Devil.
As for what if the players try to use the weapons? Well you can simply treat them as a normal Shortsword or Crossbow, Light. The poison damage the Assassin deals is specific to its training and abilities, where as a player's racial traits, class features, and feats represents their training and abilities. It is easy enough to say the poison drys out after a minute and looses potency or something similar.
In 5e monsters are not designed using the same rules as player characters. A monster's life expectancy is usually measured in seconds where as a player character is likely to live through an entire campaign.
For 5e, I think my stance as a GM would be: Your character isn't really the type to use poisons.
And then maybe the player would argue: Well, yea, I think my character is exactly the type to use poisons.
To which I'd reply: Well, maybe that's the case. It is, after all, your character. However, this campaign* doesn't include access to poison, and also isn't for the type of character who'd resort to poison as a way of defeating enemies. So let's have a discussion of A) why your character doesn't use poison - maybe it's disdain, because it's cowardly, maybe it's arrogance, because they don't need it, or maybe it's a point of pride, they only need the naked blade. That, or B) what new character you'll be playing instead.
5e doesn't have a bunch of buffs to weapon damage (well, that's debatable, but it's nowhere near as easy as it was in 3.5). So no, you don't get a damage buff for damage either.
* I mean, provided that's the sort of campaign, right? I've also played campaigns where the opposite was the case.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
In 5e monsters are not designed using the same rules as player characters. A monster's life expectancy is usually measured in seconds where as a player character is likely to live through an entire campaign.
Perhaps - but the MM Assassin is specifically an Appendix B NPC (non-player character)notsimply a monster.
In every previous iteration of D&D, NPC's were generally held to the same rules as Player Characters - is this no longer the case in 5E?
In 5e monsters are not designed using the same rules as player characters. A monster's life expectancy is usually measured in seconds where as a player character is likely to live through an entire campaign.
Perhaps - but the MM Assassin is specifically an Appendix B NPC (non-player character)notsimply a monster.
In every previous iteration of D&D, NPC's were generally held to the same rules as Player Characters - is this no longer the case in 5E?
Yes, this is a change in 5e compared to previous editions like 3/3.5e.
It is pretty easy to see the differences between the Assassin NPC and an Assassin Rogue PC. The Assassin has 12d8 hit dice which is equivalent to a level 12 Rogue, but its Sneak Attack only does 4d6 damage which is equivalent to a 7th level Rogue. The Assassin has only 4 skill proficiencies and Expertise in only one of those, where as even a level 1 Rogue would have more skill proficiencies and Expertise in more skills than that. The Assassin has the Multiattack action which is an action defined in the Monster Manual and only available to PCs via effects like Wild Shape or Polymorph.
So I'm fairly new to Dnd but I've been think of varies builds to try and poisons was one of them. And reading what you guys are taking about would poison crafting be better as a way to make money if buying them is so expensive could you make a character focused on selling over using?
There's really no way to "make money" in 5E in the way you're thinking, the game moves at the speed of the narrative. The availability, friendliness, and stock of merchants isn't really something that exists as an external constant you can exploit, so much as a function of your DM's story. You're about as likely to "make money" crafting and selling poisons, as you are by selling monster parts, selling spellcasting, robbing merchants, etc. etc.... if your DM wants you to be able to pick up an extra grand whenever you hit town, sure, why not. If they don't, doesn't matter what poisons you've made, folks won't buy them, or they'll be illegal, etc.
When building your character, focus on the story you want to tell, and the play style you want to have in combat. Don't try to break the economy, because a lot of games barely have one.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
First off a vial can cover 1 weapon or 3 ammunition and remains for a minute not 3 uses. If you Ranger shoots 3 arrows mobs goes down and take time to retrieve them its still got for a min. If the rogue uses his first turn to action apply poison and bonus action hide then he can hack and slash for 1min with a poisoned weapon.
All poisons unless instant inhaled, ingested etc. Once apply last a min.
Not all poison, just the basic poison. According to DMG other injury poisons remains potent until delivered through a wound or washed off.
A fine case of “Well, yes, but no”, because: this should be something you discuss with your DM/GM; and furthermore, the DMG specifically covers constructing an entire world, including a Market & Guild Network, bundled alongside Settlement (Village/Town/City/etcetera) sizes; meaning: the economy should exist quite robustly; that being said, your point actually still stands quite strongly because of your other referenced objections:
A robust economy will maintain a limited economic availability, limited stockpile, and limited material availability. Spellcasting services might require you turning away desperate customers just because they couldn't afford your services; you could offer these customers a discount, but your own resource availability would in turn suffer (temporarily) and this might become a problem if enough paying customers show up to strain these resources, comparable to spellcasting in battle situations too.
I have a question, particularly in regards to the actions of the Monster Manual NPC: Assassin, found on pg 343 of the MM.
The Stat block lists the actions of the Assassin as:
Multiattack. The assassin makes two shortsword attacks.
Shortsword. Melee Weapon Attack:+6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d6 + 3) piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw, taking 24 (7d6) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
(as well as a poisoned crossbow.)
The question for debate is, do the MM NPC Assassins follow the same rules for poison as listed in the PHB and DMG? The damage listed is the same as wyvern injury poison, which, per the DMG, costs 1200gp/dose and lasts "until delivered through a wound."
So first off, if both attacks of the multiattack are successful, is the poison counted twice? If so, what happens on the subsequent rounds? The MM description doesn't explicitly say one hit only, so how do we read this?
If we say one-and-done until reapplied, then the assassin's CR8 rating is a bit overstating the case. If it's poison-every-hit, it's incredibly super-powered and begs the question of what can the party do with this weapon once the Assassin is dispatched?
I am interested to know how this has played out over the years, and if there is any 'official' ruling on the topic?
I don't think there has been any Sage Advice or the like issued over something like this.
However, from just the text of the Assassin's stat block it deals the poison damage on all of its attacks. From a balance perspective this is in line with other CR8 monsters like the Chain Devil.
As for what if the players try to use the weapons? Well you can simply treat them as a normal Shortsword or Crossbow, Light. The poison damage the Assassin deals is specific to its training and abilities, where as a player's racial traits, class features, and feats represents their training and abilities. It is easy enough to say the poison drys out after a minute and looses potency or something similar.
In 5e monsters are not designed using the same rules as player characters. A monster's life expectancy is usually measured in seconds where as a player character is likely to live through an entire campaign.
For 5e, I think my stance as a GM would be: Your character isn't really the type to use poisons.
And then maybe the player would argue: Well, yea, I think my character is exactly the type to use poisons.
To which I'd reply: Well, maybe that's the case. It is, after all, your character. However, this campaign* doesn't include access to poison, and also isn't for the type of character who'd resort to poison as a way of defeating enemies. So let's have a discussion of A) why your character doesn't use poison - maybe it's disdain, because it's cowardly, maybe it's arrogance, because they don't need it, or maybe it's a point of pride, they only need the naked blade. That, or B) what new character you'll be playing instead.
5e doesn't have a bunch of buffs to weapon damage (well, that's debatable, but it's nowhere near as easy as it was in 3.5). So no, you don't get a damage buff for damage either.
* I mean, provided that's the sort of campaign, right? I've also played campaigns where the opposite was the case.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Perhaps - but the MM Assassin is specifically an Appendix B NPC (non-player character) not simply a monster.
In every previous iteration of D&D, NPC's were generally held to the same rules as Player Characters - is this no longer the case in 5E?
Yes, this is a change in 5e compared to previous editions like 3/3.5e.
It is pretty easy to see the differences between the Assassin NPC and an Assassin Rogue PC. The Assassin has 12d8 hit dice which is equivalent to a level 12 Rogue, but its Sneak Attack only does 4d6 damage which is equivalent to a 7th level Rogue. The Assassin has only 4 skill proficiencies and Expertise in only one of those, where as even a level 1 Rogue would have more skill proficiencies and Expertise in more skills than that. The Assassin has the Multiattack action which is an action defined in the Monster Manual and only available to PCs via effects like Wild Shape or Polymorph.
The Dungeon Master's Guide has a section that goes over the process of creating a monster/npc stat blocks, and even rules for adding class levels to a monster/npc, which can be found here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#CreatingaMonster