I know it's supposed to be flavor text, but the fey wanderer ranger subclass gives you the option of a feywild gift. One of the examples is horns/antlers sprouting from your head. If your race is harengon your now a Jackalope. But then I had the question "Can I attack with these horns?" I can find no rules that says I can't. From what I could find...
1) Horns are natural weapons. They use a strength modifier, but there is no standard natural weapon dmg calculations. That I could find.
2) Natural Weapons are NOT Unarmed strikes. The race traits like minotaur horns, and Tabaxi/Leonin Claws, specifically label them as unarmed strikes to circumvent this rule.
It also occurred to me that teiflings are in the same boat. they have horns, but no rules for using them.
Anybody have some more info they would share?
Edit: I was mainly trying to figure out if I could use the horns as natural weapons for the dreadful strikes feature from fey wanderer. It would work with natural weapons but not with unarmed strikes. So, I guess I was trying to figure out if there was an official way to determine the damage I would deal with the horns.
You've got the gist of it; features specifically described as Natural Weapons are different from simple Unarmed Attacks. A Natural Weapon can interact with certain other effects that call for a weapon and will have a damage die. If you gain a physical feature such as horns but it's not described as a Natural Weapon, then any attack with them would be an unmodified Unarmed Attack, so barring separate features interacting with it you'd only be doing 1+STR mod damage with it.
This is not the way. Rules describe what you can do, not what you can't. Otherwise the basic rules would be longer than the tax code.
That said, you can attack with them. But as already stated, without rules stating otherwise, they are no better than a normal punch / kick / headbutt. They have no mechanical effect.
Thanks for the reply. I'd be down with doing 1+STR. if it applied to my dreadful strikes feature. That's really what I wanted. It only occurred to me later that I should have mentioned that.
Thanks for the reply. I'd be down with doing 1+STR. if it applied to my dreadful strikes feature. That's really what I wanted. It only occurred to me later that I should have mentioned that.
That won't work unfortunately. The dreadful strikes feature requires the attack to be made with a weapon and the horns/antlers you get from being a Fey Wanderer have no rules making them weapons (natural or otherwise) and thus they don't qualify. You need a feature that specifically says they are natural weapons like Leonins or the Dragonhide feat or similar.
1) Horns are natural weapons. They use a strength modifier, but there is no standard natural weapon dmg calculations. That I could find.
No, not as a general rule. You need a feature to say that they are Natural Weapons for them to be so and such a feature should also tell you what their damage calculation is.
2) Natural Weapons are NOT Unarmed strikes. The race traits like minotaur horns, and Tabaxi/Leonin Claws, specifically label them as unarmed strikes to circumvent this rule.
Not quite. A feature that says that something can be used to make an Unarmed Strike do so to allow it to work with other things that modify Unarmed Strikes. A feature that says something is a Natural Weapon do so to make it a weapon. It is two separate and different concepts. And depending on what a specific feature says it could qualify as either one or both, it differs.
Some races (like Tabaxi or Aarakocra) used to say that they got Natural Weapons but their updated (MotM) versions now gives them something that can be used as Unarmed Strikes. And that change makes for a mechanical difference in how those features interact with other rules.
Hey Guys,
I know it's supposed to be flavor text, but the fey wanderer ranger subclass gives you the option of a feywild gift. One of the examples is horns/antlers sprouting from your head. If your race is harengon your now a Jackalope. But then I had the question "Can I attack with these horns?" I can find no rules that says I can't. From what I could find...
1) Horns are natural weapons. They use a strength modifier, but there is no standard natural weapon dmg calculations. That I could find.
2) Natural Weapons are NOT Unarmed strikes. The race traits like minotaur horns, and Tabaxi/Leonin Claws, specifically label them as unarmed strikes to circumvent this rule.
It also occurred to me that teiflings are in the same boat. they have horns, but no rules for using them.
Anybody have some more info they would share?
Edit: I was mainly trying to figure out if I could use the horns as natural weapons for the dreadful strikes feature from fey wanderer. It would work with natural weapons but not with unarmed strikes. So, I guess I was trying to figure out if there was an official way to determine the damage I would deal with the horns.
You've got the gist of it; features specifically described as Natural Weapons are different from simple Unarmed Attacks. A Natural Weapon can interact with certain other effects that call for a weapon and will have a damage die. If you gain a physical feature such as horns but it's not described as a Natural Weapon, then any attack with them would be an unmodified Unarmed Attack, so barring separate features interacting with it you'd only be doing 1+STR mod damage with it.
This is not the way. Rules describe what you can do, not what you can't. Otherwise the basic rules would be longer than the tax code.
That said, you can attack with them. But as already stated, without rules stating otherwise, they are no better than a normal punch / kick / headbutt. They have no mechanical effect.
Thanks for the reply. I'd be down with doing 1+STR. if it applied to my dreadful strikes feature. That's really what I wanted. It only occurred to me later that I should have mentioned that.
That won't work unfortunately. The dreadful strikes feature requires the attack to be made with a weapon and the horns/antlers you get from being a Fey Wanderer have no rules making them weapons (natural or otherwise) and thus they don't qualify. You need a feature that specifically says they are natural weapons like Leonins or the Dragonhide feat or similar.
No, not as a general rule. You need a feature to say that they are Natural Weapons for them to be so and such a feature should also tell you what their damage calculation is.
Not quite. A feature that says that something can be used to make an Unarmed Strike do so to allow it to work with other things that modify Unarmed Strikes. A feature that says something is a Natural Weapon do so to make it a weapon. It is two separate and different concepts. And depending on what a specific feature says it could qualify as either one or both, it differs.
Some races (like Tabaxi or Aarakocra) used to say that they got Natural Weapons but their updated (MotM) versions now gives them something that can be used as Unarmed Strikes. And that change makes for a mechanical difference in how those features interact with other rules.
Still Would be really cool if it worked.
Ask your DM might just let it work as Rule of Cool