If you are under the effect of the Sanctuary spell and use the telekinetic feat to move an enemy, does that end the Sanctuary?Sanctuary says “If the warded creature makes an attack, casts a spell that affects an enemy, or deals damage to another creature, this spell ends.”
1- Telekinetic isn’t an attack, since you aren’t making an attack roll.
2- It isn’t a spell. It is an ability
3- It does no damage
At first I assumed that using mage hand to push someone would count as a spell, but after re-reading the Telekinetic feat, it doesn’t actually say that you’re using mage hand to make the shove. Instead, it mentions that you gain access to an invisible mage hand in one paragraph and then in a completely separate paragraph it states that “As a bonus action, you can try to telekinetically shove one creature you can see within 30 ft. of you. When you do so, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC 10 + the ability modifier of the score increased by this feat) or be moved 5 ft. toward or away from you. A creature can willingly fail this save.” There is no mention of the mage hand being used to shove.
Am I reading this correctly? Thanks in advance for any help clarifying
RAW you are reading this correctly. The Telekinetic feat's shove feature is its own effect independent of any spell. As you point out it doesn't meet any of the criteria for Sanctuary ending early.
However I would recommend that you bring this up with your DM before trying it at a table. I imagine most DMs wouldn't run this RAW if asked to make a call on the fly as shoving a creature is a hostile action and goes against the spirit of Sanctuary's restrictions if not their letter. But some tables enjoy this sort of mechanical nuance so your mileage may vary. There are a number of edge case examples you could find even just in the PHB.
For example, what if a Divination Wizard under the effect of Sanctuary uses their Portent feature to cause the Paladin's max spell slot smite to critically hit? Mechanically it similarly avoids the limitations of Sanctuary but how it feels narratively can really depend on how you imagine the Portent feature working in the story. Are you a simple observer of future events and only later realize all the specifics of the vague impressions you had in your dreams? Or do you somehow shape and weave the strands of fate? With the former interpretation of the Portent feature the wizard is being passive and simply watching the future unfold as they foresaw it. With the later the wizard is taking an active role to shape events to cause harm to an enemy.
However I would recommend that you bring this up with your DM before trying it at a table. I imagine most DMs wouldn't run this RAW if asked to make a call on the fly as shoving a creature is a hostile action and goes against the spirit of Sanctuary's restrictions if not their letter. But some tables enjoy this sort of mechanical nuance so your mileage may vary. There are a number of edge case examples you could find even just in the PHB.
I agree with having a talk with your DM ahead of time. But I don't see why anyone should rule against it being used tbh.
RAW i agree with the other posters the Telekinetic feat falls outside Sanctuary''s restrictions. But a DM could always say it still do since normally you make a special melee attack when you Shove a Creature, which the warded creature can't do.
I'm coming back to this years later, but I feel compelled to back up the mechanics here.
The telekinetic feat was added in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything as a part of the expansion into psionic abilities and spells.
Channel divinity is another ability that is not considered a spell.
Abilities are RAW. They just work. They do what they say, they do not do or interact with anything they don't say.
RAI absolutely is that this is to be used as RAW. Telekinetic is an ability that breaks the mold of action economy and magic in the game. Intentionally.
Any creature can willingly give up any saving throw. Period.
If you forcefully move someone with sanctuary on them, with this feature, the sanctuary spell is unaffected. If you have sanctuary on and you use this feature as a bonus action, the sanctuary spell is unaffected. It is an innate psionic ability. It does no damage. It's done a bonus action. It's not a spell.
[redacted] If you can't use this with sanctuary then you shouldnt be able to dodge, study, utilize, help, use non spell healing etc. It becomes a spell only useful for roleplay or downed allies, when that's not only what it was made to do.
If you are under the effect of the Sanctuary spell and use the telekinetic feat to move an enemy, does that end the Sanctuary?Sanctuary says “If the warded creature makes an attack, casts a spell that affects an enemy, or deals damage to another creature, this spell ends.”
1- Telekinetic isn’t an attack, since you aren’t making an attack roll.
2- It isn’t a spell. It is an ability
3- It does no damage
At first I assumed that using mage hand to push someone would count as a spell, but after re-reading the Telekinetic feat, it doesn’t actually say that you’re using mage hand to make the shove. Instead, it mentions that you gain access to an invisible mage hand in one paragraph and then in a completely separate paragraph it states that “As a bonus action, you can try to telekinetically shove one creature you can see within 30 ft. of you. When you do so, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC 10 + the ability modifier of the score increased by this feat) or be moved 5 ft. toward or away from you. A creature can willingly fail this save.” There is no mention of the mage hand being used to shove.
Am I reading this correctly? Thanks in advance for any help clarifying
RAW you are reading this correctly. The Telekinetic feat's shove feature is its own effect independent of any spell. As you point out it doesn't meet any of the criteria for Sanctuary ending early.
However I would recommend that you bring this up with your DM before trying it at a table. I imagine most DMs wouldn't run this RAW if asked to make a call on the fly as shoving a creature is a hostile action and goes against the spirit of Sanctuary's restrictions if not their letter. But some tables enjoy this sort of mechanical nuance so your mileage may vary. There are a number of edge case examples you could find even just in the PHB.
For example, what if a Divination Wizard under the effect of Sanctuary uses their Portent feature to cause the Paladin's max spell slot smite to critically hit? Mechanically it similarly avoids the limitations of Sanctuary but how it feels narratively can really depend on how you imagine the Portent feature working in the story. Are you a simple observer of future events and only later realize all the specifics of the vague impressions you had in your dreams? Or do you somehow shape and weave the strands of fate? With the former interpretation of the Portent feature the wizard is being passive and simply watching the future unfold as they foresaw it. With the later the wizard is taking an active role to shape events to cause harm to an enemy.
Yea that's correct. The "shove" from the feat is a bit of a special case.
I agree with having a talk with your DM ahead of time. But I don't see why anyone should rule against it being used tbh.
RAW i agree with the other posters the Telekinetic feat falls outside Sanctuary''s restrictions. But a DM could always say it still do since normally you make a special melee attack when you Shove a Creature, which the warded creature can't do.
I'm coming back to this years later, but I feel compelled to back up the mechanics here.
The telekinetic feat was added in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything as a part of the expansion into psionic abilities and spells.
Channel divinity is another ability that is not considered a spell.
Abilities are RAW. They just work. They do what they say, they do not do or interact with anything they don't say.
RAI absolutely is that this is to be used as RAW. Telekinetic is an ability that breaks the mold of action economy and magic in the game. Intentionally.
Any creature can willingly give up any saving throw. Period.
If you forcefully move someone with sanctuary on them, with this feature, the sanctuary spell is unaffected. If you have sanctuary on and you use this feature as a bonus action, the sanctuary spell is unaffected.
It is an innate psionic ability. It does no damage. It's done a bonus action. It's not a spell.
[redacted]
If you can't use this with sanctuary then you shouldnt be able to dodge, study, utilize, help, use non spell healing etc. It becomes a spell only useful for roleplay or downed allies, when that's not only what it was made to do.
It's 5 feet of movement for crying out loud.