Seeing as the Create Undead spell limits a 9th level caster to a handful of ghouls OR a couple ghasts/wights/mummies, how do you explain a necromancer villain with a host of undead minions? Do you just call 'poetic license' and hope the players don't ask questions? Especially players who are starting to enjoy the spells in the Necromantic school.
I usually have them set up shop in a place that draws the undead and fiendish to it, instead of having the necromancer create them. I also space out the encounters with the necromancer's minions, to give the reasonable assumption that the villain is replacing their lost thralls. It depends on the situation, though.
Is there anything in the ruleset about those kinds of locations? Or is that storytelling material only?
I've wondered about having the villain somehow binding his create undead spells to a place or to furnishings or something - like a magical trap that casts Create Undead when it's triggered. But it would require lots of prep, so a PC couldn't just call up a horde whenever they want. What do you think about that route? Any problems you can foresee with that?
Seeing as the Create Undead spell limits a 9th level caster to a handful of ghouls OR a couple ghasts/wights/mummies, how do you explain a necromancer villain with a host of undead minions?
Ahhh! Zombie horde, via annihilating the village. That makes more sense. And more evil - here's a good motivation to drive PCs who just made friends in town.
The create undead spell allows for up to 3 Ghouls, which are CR1 monsters. It isn't much of a leap to think that a necromancer could create 4 zombies (1/4 CR) in place of every ghoul. So with some simple math a create undead spell could create up to 12 zombies.
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As for me, I choose to believe that an extinct thunder lizard is running a game of Dungeons & Dragons via Twitter!
I see where you're going with that. When I read the guidelines there, I just assumed that ghouls, ghasts, wights, and mummies were the only things that this kind of NPC could create. I didn't think about going back down the CR scale.
I see where you're going with that. When I read the guidelines there, I just assumed that ghouls, ghasts, wights, and mummies were the only things that this kind of NPC could create. I didn't think about going back down the CR scale.
Thanks for helping me think outside the box!
Keep thinking outside the box to mix it up and surprise your players. I like having relatively bland undead (zombies/skeletons) explode for negative damage upon destruction. Blast that hurts PC's but heals any other undead nearby. Just a few, enough to make them scared/wary.
Or have an intelligent version of a Zombie or a skeleton trapped in service maybe or a willing convert to undeath. Could be he was a fighter and still have his fighter abilities but now he's a zombie too.
Also, necromancer wizards get two zombies for each casting of Animate Dead at level 3. That goes up by one for each level above three. A level 20 wizard could use all of their third through ninth level spell slots and could Animate 94 zombies. They'd be left with just a few low level spell slots, but when you have that many zombies at your command, how much magic do you need?
Or have an intelligent version of a Zombie or a skeleton trapped in service maybe or a willing convert to undeath. Could be he was a fighter and still have his fighter abilities but now he's a zombie too.
Indeed! I have a full campaign taking place with this exact scenario. As any living creature dies, a "soul" from another plane inhabits the recently deceased host and has access to the brain's memories. Their goal? To kill more creatures and provide hosts for their brethren to join them.
Smart zombies that aren't afraid to die, as they only need wait for a new host to become available.
Yikes - sounds like an undead hydra. So this would mean the players have to dispose of corpses immediately in order to even survive? Did you create a mechanic to account for that? How are you balancing things?
Yikes - sounds like an undead hydra. So this would mean the players have to dispose of corpses immediately in order to even survive? Did you create a mechanic to account for that? How are you balancing things?
Oh, it's not quite like that. As they kill an 'undead', the corpse is defeated. Only the death of living creatures yields a "summon". As the 'undead' go on rampant killing sprees to surge their numbers, the players are taking to finding the gate which allows the soul transfer to happen. There, they will reach our BBEG. There are encounters with the 'minions', as well as bouts of me using the memory retaining against the players. Nothing that has required any specific balancing as of yet.
There could always be a cult of necromancers, or plenty of prep-time. While the adventurers are off getting some widget, what is the Necromancer doing? Digging up bodies and animating them of course! What happens to the victims of that get in his way while digging up bodies? Killed and animated. Living creatures are just zombies in waiting (if your Necromancer is strong enough).
I like how this could add to the tension in the scene. Somehow notify the players that the cult IS prepping a horde - each hour that passes = 10 more zombies or whatever. That could put a great time-pressure on them. Thanks!
You've already got a ton of good points here, so I'll just re-iterate that the Magic in the rule book isn't the only magic that exists in the world. Gods exist who will animate corpses for the sheer hell of it, or perhaps the lack of a god's influence will cause the soul to never fully leave. A spooky fog might bring them back, as might just the presence of an insane evil being. This is a good chance to reference the Death And Return of Superman review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PlwDbSYicM). As a writer, how do you kill a vampire? The answer is "However you want, because vampires don't exist.". Well, same thing here! How did all these zombies get here? However you want! You can even make it perfectly clear to the players that creating zombies is easy, but something they'll never learn to do for "reasons".
True - I get the whole poetic license thing. But I guess I'm a lawful neutral DM. I want a system, at least as a facade of fair balance in the game. :)
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Chandelierianism: Not just for interns anymore.
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Seeing as the Create Undead spell limits a 9th level caster to a handful of ghouls OR a couple ghasts/wights/mummies, how do you explain a necromancer villain with a host of undead minions? Do you just call 'poetic license' and hope the players don't ask questions? Especially players who are starting to enjoy the spells in the Necromantic school.
Thanks for any suggestions you can offer!
Chandelierianism: Not just for interns anymore.
I usually have them set up shop in a place that draws the undead and fiendish to it, instead of having the necromancer create them. I also space out the encounters with the necromancer's minions, to give the reasonable assumption that the villain is replacing their lost thralls. It depends on the situation, though.
That makes sense. Thanks for the idea!
Is there anything in the ruleset about those kinds of locations? Or is that storytelling material only?
I've wondered about having the villain somehow binding his create undead spells to a place or to furnishings or something - like a magical trap that casts Create Undead when it's triggered. But it would require lots of prep, so a PC couldn't just call up a horde whenever they want. What do you think about that route? Any problems you can foresee with that?
Chandelierianism: Not just for interns anymore.
I haven't seen any official rules for it, so it's mostly storytelling material.
I foresee no problems with the trap you described, as you're trying to make this villain one that is dangerous for the PCs to encounter.
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Ahhh! Zombie horde, via annihilating the village. That makes more sense. And more evil - here's a good motivation to drive PCs who just made friends in town.
Thanks!
Chandelierianism: Not just for interns anymore.
The create undead spell allows for up to 3 Ghouls, which are CR1 monsters. It isn't much of a leap to think that a necromancer could create 4 zombies (1/4 CR) in place of every ghoul. So with some simple math a create undead spell could create up to 12 zombies.
As for me, I choose to believe that an extinct thunder lizard is running a game of Dungeons & Dragons via Twitter!
I see where you're going with that. When I read the guidelines there, I just assumed that ghouls, ghasts, wights, and mummies were the only things that this kind of NPC could create. I didn't think about going back down the CR scale.
Thanks for helping me think outside the box!
Chandelierianism: Not just for interns anymore.
Now that's downright devious. Love it!
Chandelierianism: Not just for interns anymore.
Also, necromancer wizards get two zombies for each casting of Animate Dead at level 3. That goes up by one for each level above three. A level 20 wizard could use all of their third through ninth level spell slots and could Animate 94 zombies. They'd be left with just a few low level spell slots, but when you have that many zombies at your command, how much magic do you need?
Brilliant. I didn't even think about how the math would play out for a death wizard who just wanted a lotta zombies. Thanks for pointing this out!
Chandelierianism: Not just for interns anymore.
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Yikes - sounds like an undead hydra. So this would mean the players have to dispose of corpses immediately in order to even survive? Did you create a mechanic to account for that? How are you balancing things?
Chandelierianism: Not just for interns anymore.
[ Site Rules & Guidelines ] --- [ Homebrew Rules & Guidelines ]
Send me a message with any questions or concerns
There could always be a cult of necromancers, or plenty of prep-time. While the adventurers are off getting some widget, what is the Necromancer doing? Digging up bodies and animating them of course! What happens to the victims of that get in his way while digging up bodies? Killed and animated. Living creatures are just zombies in waiting (if your Necromancer is strong enough).
Perfect. lol
I like how this could add to the tension in the scene. Somehow notify the players that the cult IS prepping a horde - each hour that passes = 10 more zombies or whatever. That could put a great time-pressure on them. Thanks!
Chandelierianism: Not just for interns anymore.
You've already got a ton of good points here, so I'll just re-iterate that the Magic in the rule book isn't the only magic that exists in the world. Gods exist who will animate corpses for the sheer hell of it, or perhaps the lack of a god's influence will cause the soul to never fully leave. A spooky fog might bring them back, as might just the presence of an insane evil being. This is a good chance to reference the Death And Return of Superman review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PlwDbSYicM). As a writer, how do you kill a vampire? The answer is "However you want, because vampires don't exist.". Well, same thing here! How did all these zombies get here? However you want! You can even make it perfectly clear to the players that creating zombies is easy, but something they'll never learn to do for "reasons".
True - I get the whole poetic license thing. But I guess I'm a lawful neutral DM. I want a system, at least as a facade of fair balance in the game. :)
Chandelierianism: Not just for interns anymore.