Eldritch Adept and the 2024 Pact Boons

Quote from occoms_chainsaw>>

Quote from MyDudeicus>>

I hope they rewrite it and the sorcerer one soon they need changes.  Personally I'd like both to have a repeatable tag but only if the feat is picked up with a ability score improvement when taken from either warlock/sorcerer level ups. So most people are limited to one, but if you take it with your level 4 and 8 warlock level up you could take it twice. Lets the classes they are form double down on the feature.

Whats wrong with metamagic adept? I'm using it on a character right now and it seems to be working fine. But yeah, as it is eldritch adept got really weird. 2 *clean* options that are both kind of lack luster. Free mage armor might be worth it, but advantage on concentration saves youre better off with warcaster. Then there's the previous pacts that might not be intended, but hey, wotc decided those now take one of your invocation slots, so they're fair game to me. Although only tome seems worth it. Closely reading it, it sounds like every short rest you can swap all the chosen spells out with the tome. Never played a warlock so not sure thats intended, but it reads that way.

Metamagic Adept: It pulls on the old metamagic versions, not the new ones. Only the 5.5e versions should be selectable on a 5.5e character. (For instance, Heightened got better and Twinned got worse.)

Eldritch Adept should only be compatible with Armor of Shadows, Eldritch Mind, and the Pact invocations from the PHB. Agonizing Blast, Beast Speech, Beguiling Influence, Devil's Sight, Eldritch Sight, Eyes of the Rune Keeper, Fiendish Vigor, Gaze of Two Minds, Grasp of Hadar*, Lance of Lethargy*, Mask of Many Faces, Misty Visions, Repelling Blast, and Thief of Five Fates should all be excluded as 5e invocations.

*Xanathar's introduced these two and there's debate they should still be eligible; this depends on viewing them not as features of the 5e Warlock class, but rather as additional invocations for any Warlock, which goes against both the reprint of Eldritch Mind from Tasha's and all the optional features from Tasha's being excluded. However, I've included them by simply going down the list on the Warlock page.

^Any invocations that don't have a level requirement but require a pact were excluded.

Quote from occoms_chainsaw >>  

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Using anything from before the 2024 PHB with the 2024+ content is mixing rules.

They won't be marked legacy until the content is updated.

These are mutually exclusive. It is either current rules or legacy rules, not both, and certainly not neither (if you catch the reference). 

Not at all. You misunderstood what "legacy" means in this context. "Legacy", or "5e", in the marketplace means that the content has been updated to "5.5e". I believe that they only put the "5e" label when the content has been fully updated. As such, while the Artificer has been updated from Tasha's and Eberron: Rising from the Last War, not all of the content has been updated. As such, neither are marked "5e".

From a DnDBeyond character builder perspective, I believe legacy is treated differently. I don't use it so I can't speak to it. 

If you are using any content from a book published before the 2024 PHB alongside the 2024 PHB and newer content, you are mixing editions. That can cause rules conflicts for various reasons.

Quote from occoms_chainsaw >> 

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

There are a lot of things that either don't work, don't work as advertised, or are just objectively bad choices compared to the alternatives. "Unfair" doesn't matter. If something is too OP, it will get nerfed in an errata. If something is too weak, it will get updated when it sells more product. 

If I sold you wine and you drank it and it was ice tea, youd just be like, thats not fair, but oh, unfair doesn't matter, so I guess we're good? Saying its one thing to sell it, and it turns out to be another thing, is kind of a problem. This might not be as egregious as ice tea instead of wine (or maybe more so since the rule books are way more than any bottle of wine I'm buying), but it is in the same category of not what was agreed to.

It's not really a valid comparison. They said it was compatible and it mostly is. There are weird interactions. To correct your metaphor, if they told you a wine paired well with any item on the menu but some of the sides don't quite suit it. There are no grounds here for false advertising. Since there is no basis for legal action, they are free to determine the conditions for "fair" and we can decide to buy or not. That's it. 

Quote from occoms_chainsaw >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Why would you expect older sourcebooks (Tasha's and Xanathar's) to be more compatible with the current edition than the newest sourcebook of the previous edition (Fizban)?

Literally for the reason I said and you quoted.

And the changes in dnd *were* Tasha's and Xanathar's. Those are the books that changed how things worked. You can't say things changed so those couldn't be implemented when those things *were* the changes you're talking about.

Let me put it more bluntly. Assuming WotC is communicating about different projects internally, when a sourcebook is published has far more bearing on the compatibility of later projects than how close to "core" they are perceived to be.

Additionally, the changes to D&D happened over time, across many source books and 5.24 incorporated some of those changes and pivoted on others.

Specific stats were disconnected from Species in Tasha's, but 5.24 disconnected them from species altogether and took a step backwards by restricting it to 3 attributes instead of allowing you to place them wherever.

Strixhaven: Curriculum of Chaos was the first book that gave us Backgrounds with Feats that then became Origin feats in 5.24.

Wild Beyond the Witchlight may have been the first time we had species that could cast spells and use spell slots to cast them.

Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica was the first time we had playable species that weren't humanoids.

The changes in D&D were not Tasha's and Xanathar's. It was a journey over the edition, not a "this book is where 5.5e started". There were changes in multiple books and some of them carried over to the current edition and some did not.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

[...] Wild Beyond the Witchlight may have been the first time we had species that could cast spells and use spell slots to cast them. [...]

 Indeed, "The Wild Beyond the Witchlight" included some interesting changes for character races (now species). From https://web.archive.org/web/20240229074356/https://dnd.wizards.com/sage-advice/creature-evolutions:

NEW CHARACTER RACES
The new character races in The Wild Beyond the Witchlight—the fairy and the harengon—both appeared in Unearthed Arcana, and they now appear in their final form in that book. The races have several characteristics that you’ll see not only in the book, but also in the character races in our other upcoming books. These characteristics are explored below.

CREATURE TYPE
In the past, a character race was presumed to have the Humanoid creature type. In the new races, the character’s creature type is specified. For example, the fairy has the Fey creature type.

Creature types don’t have rules themselves, but some rules in the game affect creatures of certain types in different ways. For example, the cure wounds spell doesn’t work on a Construct or an Undead.

ABILITY SCORE INCREASES
New character races don’t have the Ability Score Increase trait that Player’s Handbook races have. The new races instead rely on a special character-creation rule that allows a character to increase one ability score by 2 and another score by 1 or to increase three different ability scores by 1. The lack of the Ability Score Increase trait helps make your choice of race and your choice of class independent from each other, broadening the types of characters we’re likely to see at the game table.

If you’re having trouble deciding which scores to increase, we recommend consulting your class’s “Quick Build” section. For example, the bard’s “Quick Build” section recommends you increase your character’s Charisma and Dexterity.

AGE
New character races lack an Age trait. We instead now provide the following text about a character’s life span: “The typical life span of a player character in the D&D multiverse is about a century, assuming the character doesn’t meet a violent end on an adventure. Members of some races, such as dwarves and elves, can live for centuries.”

ALIGNMENT
Previously, the text of a character race suggested an alignment for your character. Newer races contain no such alignment suggestions, since a character’s alignment is entirely under the purview of the player.

SIZE
Some new races, including the harengon, let you choose whether your character starts Medium or Small, reflecting the fact that some races contain an especially broad range of builds. You’ll see this choice in other races in the future.

Also, rather than suggesting height and weight in a race, we provide the following text: “Player characters, regardless of race, typically fall into the same ranges of height and weight that humans have in our world. If you’d like to determine your character’s height or weight randomly, consult the Random Height and Weight table in the Player’s Handbook, and choose the row in the table that best represents the build you imagine for your character.”

LANGUAGES
The new races lack traits that are purely cultural, so they don’t include a Languages trait. Instead, new characters start knowing Common and one other language that you and your DM agree is appropriate for your character.

Quote from occoms_chainsaw>>

Whats wrong with metamagic adept? I'm using it on a character right now and it seems to be working fine. But yeah, as it is eldritch adept got really weird. 2 *clean* options that are both kind of lack luster. Free mage armor might be worth it, but advantage on concentration saves youre better off with warcaster. Then there's the previous pacts that might not be intended, but hey, wotc decided those now take one of your invocation slots, so they're fair game to me. Although only tome seems worth it. Closely reading it, it sounds like every short rest you can swap all the chosen spells out with the tome. Never played a warlock so not sure thats intended, but it reads that way.

All the pacts are very worth it. Blade only if you are a charisma caster who wants to melee.(valor bard/paladins) Chain for a OP familiar. Sure in a fight it falls behind at the levels you get it but an invisible scout than can do the help action in combat is really useful. 

Quote from MyDudeicus >>

Quote from occoms_chainsaw>>

 

Whats wrong with metamagic adept? I'm using it on a character right now and it seems to be working fine. But yeah, as it is eldritch adept got really weird. 2 *clean* options that are both kind of lack luster. Free mage armor might be worth it, but advantage on concentration saves youre better off with warcaster. Then there's the previous pacts that might not be intended, but hey, wotc decided those now take one of your invocation slots, so they're fair game to me. Although only tome seems worth it. Closely reading it, it sounds like every short rest you can swap all the chosen spells out with the tome. Never played a warlock so not sure thats intended, but it reads that way.

 

All the pacts are very worth it. Blade only if you are a charisma caster who wants to melee.(valor bard/paladins) Chain for a OP familiar. Sure in a fight it falls behind at the levels you get it but an invisible scout than can do the help action in combat is really useful. 

True strike does the same thing as pact of the blade now minus giving you weapon proficiency, so you're taking a feat to replicate a cantrip. Sure, if you have multiattack, it might be marginally better than using true strike but probably to the tune of 4ish damage a round... I suppose you could have your sorcerer wielding a great axe with proficiency and damage bonuses from charisma with this, which would be hilarious, but it's a bit rough on the sorcerer when they hit back.... I guess combine this with greenflame blade for a damage boost? Its a lot of set up and a high price to create a dangerous situation, but I can see someone doing this. Feels like there are a lot of better options for a feat, but it could be a lot fun. I want to test this in a one shot now XD

Pact of the chain for an invisible scout.... take ritual caster, cast invisibility on your familiar. You come out ahead by several spells and a +1 to an ability score... or take pact of the tome and do the same thing, trade a couple level 1 rituals late game and the +1 from ritual caster for a few cantrips and the ability to change the spells and cantrips every short rest. If you want the invisible scout familiar, you come out ahead doing something different.

true strike does not do the same for the people who want to take it like a paladin or valor bard as they get 2 attacks and true strike only helps on one of them. And casting invisibility on your raven will not be the same as a imp who turns invisible on is own, can shape change, has working hands etc. And yes since its a 2014 feat it wont have the +1 to a stat. i do not advocate the use of this feat as is, its out of date and does not work well with the 2024 rules. But once it is updated assuming it allows the pacts they are all very useful.

Quote from MyDudeicus >>

And yes since its a 2014 feat it wont have the +1 to a stat. i do not advocate the use of this feat as is, its out of date and does not work well with the 2024 rules.

I kind of doubt an official update would do this, but I might consider it a valid Origin Feat. (So it still misses out on that +1 but a paladin etc could get it at level 1.)