Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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2024 Dwarven Stonecunning: As a Bonus Action, you gain Tremorsense with a range of 60 feet for 10 minutes. You must be on a stone surface or touching a stone surface to use this Tremorsense. The stone can be natural or worked. You can use this Bonus Action a number of times equal to your Proficiency Bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest. (Note: Walls, Floors and Ceilings you are touching)
From Free Rules Glossary: A creature with Tremorsense can pinpoint the location of creatures and moving objects within a specific range, provided that the creature with Tremorsense and anything it is detecting are both in contact with the same surface (such as the ground, a wall, or a ceiling) or the same liquid. Tremorsense can’t detect creatures or objects in the air, and it doesn’t count as a form of sight. (Note: only stone for Dwarven Stonecunning.)
I placed these two together because the Dwarven Stonecunning by itself left me to question how big an area you could do it if you were standing on a stone boulder in the middle of a lake. Was getting into could i wear a stone amulet or ring to activate
Nope, has to be on an all contiguous area of stone (worked or natural) per the Tremorsense rules. Just place this here to help with anyone else a little confused by the Dwarven power.
Cats go Moo!
No, but yes? I think "Yes, but ..." is the current trend.
Sure, you can use Stonecunning on a boulder in the middle of a lake or with a stone amulet or ring, or other stone objects (pillars/columns, rods, weapons, etc.), but it would be limited by Tremorsense normally.
What this means is that with the boulder, you could sense creatures coming into contact with the boulder or the lapping/swelling of the lake water. With a stone amulet or ring, it sounds silly, but change it to a stone rod and you can sense everyone touching it. Use it to navigate your party through an area of darkness/fog. Yes, if the area was stone, you could do it anyway, but this way, you can better justify knowing that these 5 bodies are us and those 5 bodies are them.
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My houserulings.
My understanding is that a dwarf standing on a boulder in the middle of a lake could pinpoint the location of creatures and moving objects within 60 feet that is in contact with the same stone surface, that continue underwater.
If the dwarf would go in the lake instead, it could pinpoint the location of creatures and moving objects within 60 feet that is in contact with the same water surface. EDIT While Tremorsense allow detection on liquid, Stonecunning is limited to stone surface.I can see the RAW allowance for that. However, that goes down the path of "I carry a stone with me so I can activate Tremorsense on any surface."
I think given that you have to be on a stone surface or touching a stone surface to use the Tremorsense and you use Tremorsense by sensing along a surface or liquid, that Stonecunning limits the Tremorsense to stone surfaces only, RAI if not RAW.
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I forgot and edited my post because while Tremorsense allow detection on liquid, Stonecunning is limited to stone surface.
While the dwarf can activate Stonecunning anytime as a Bonus Action, it has to touch or be on the same stone surface as the creature in range to detect it.
Simply carrying stone and touching it would only allow you to detect other creature touching the same stone.
Don't forget the line from Basic Rules for Tremorsense: both in contact with the SAME SURFACE.
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Yeah I think this is going to be one of those areas where DMs have to make rulings off the cuff. Like sure the amulet thing will be a no. but in a cavern with a thin layer of dirt over its stone base, maybe. i'd say yes. But the ambiguity makes it a tougher call. like on the other extreme of the amulet, a stone floored palace with a thin runner carpet would anyone say people on the carpet aren't detected by it. By a super strict reading they aren't in contact with the stone. Where that dividing line of its not longer contact with stone will change DM to DM.
Ah. I thought you were trying to make the point that technically Stonecunning gives the Dwarf Tremorsense and the Dwarf must be touching stone to activate it, but the actual Tremorsense is not explicitly limited to stone surfaces. We are on the same page (stone?) then.
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just to be a pedant. it just says you have to be touching stone to use the tremor sense, not that the tremorsense only works through the stone being touched. if you are standing ankle deep in an underground lake, RAW you can activate this ability and detect through the water since you are on the stone and touching the water. obviously RAI is that it's just the stone though.
Perhaps one way to read it, listening to the devs discussing it specifically, it seems unlikely intended; New Feats | Backgrounds | Species | 2024 Player's Handbook | D&D (11:41)
I'd say it's meant more for a situation where the dwarf is on a mountainside and any creatures within 60' of him likely would be as well... or the dwarf is in a cavern and the same situation applies.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Same Surface doesn't mean same material...
A Stone in the middle of the Desert will pass the vibrations of the desert through the stone, you are on the same surface...
A Stone underwater will pass the vibrations from all the water around you.
A Tight Cave will pass the vibrations from the ceiling down to the floor
A Solid Boulder floating in midair will not pass the vibrations from another Solid Boulder floating 20 ft away, despite both being stone and within 60ft (this is what the limitation on surface is about... in D&D this is a possibility)
A Boulder in the middle of a lake will carry the vibrations from the surrounding water, but it is still limited in range... meanwhile, it will not carry vibrations from the air.
The benefit of Tremorsense over Blindsight is that you can sense around corners and beyond walls or trees or fog or similar obstructions, while Blindsight is more accurate and eliminates the issue of magical darkness... Both sense past Illusions and reduce or eliminate the effects of being blinded.
The only difference between 2 and 4 is the medium through which those vibrations occur. If you allow water for reasons, then you should allow air for those same reasons.
But there are two problems with both: same surface DOES mean same material. Two surfaces in contact are still two separate surfaces, and the language of tremorsense is pretty specific. The second problem is that... well... DnD isn't a physics simulator.
I agree in theory, but in practice, it's of course, more complicated. For example, a cobblestone floor or brick wall are technically multiple surfaces that make up a composite surface. Tremorsense makes an implied distinction between solids and liquids while discounting gases altogether. In the language for Tremorsense, these potentially composite surfaces are treated collectively as "the ground, a wall, or the ceiling". So, in my opinion, (solid) surfaces in contact with each other could count as the same surface and it is up the DM to adjudicate what is a contiguous surface. The same probably applies with liquids and solids, liquids, and gasses, would function as barriers defining the limits of other surfaces, whether homogenous or composite.
Same surface does not mean same material, but it does mean same state of matter and it is up to the DM to determine what is considered the same surface beyond that.
So...
This could be considered the same surface because it is all the ground.
This is not allowed by Tremorsense. "Same surface" or "same liquid".
This would be up to the DM. A DM could take a strict reading and treat the ground, walls, and ceilings as separate surfaces or say that they are connected enough to count as one surface. Be aware that it's not a given and ask your DM.
The distance between the boulders doesn't generally matter. If the boulders were close enough to be effectively touching, it could go either way. However, any air (or liquid) separating the boulders will generally prevent them from counting as the same surface.
The real-world physics of vibrations don't matter for the rules. You can use it as a basis for house rules, but RAW, Tremorsense stops at the very least when the state of matter changes. Someone on a boulder in the middle of the lake cannot be detected by someone touching the lake, but might be detectable by someone touching the lake bottom.
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How i understand Stonecunning, it has to be on the same stone surface, meaning one can't be in sand or water.
I would agree that it cannot be water. You can be in water as long as the surface both creatures are touching is a stone or significantly stone-like surface.
Sand, as a surface derived from stone and other minerals, can go either way. It may be influenced by whether you would count various crystals as stones.
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That sounds more video game physics than real physics. Sand as a medium can transfer vibrations, and there are bugs and arachnids specifically evolved to detect movement that way. Thinking about if sand crystal is a stone at an individual level is asking the wrong question.
I think the more apt theoretical question is if stone with wood panel would still count, since stone can carry the vibration; but that layer extra medium interferes with it?
D&D is not a physics simulator.
Stonecunning requires contact with stone. If sand is not stone, Stonecunning does not apply.
If both creatures are not touching stone, Stonecunning doesn't work. If you are touching the wood paneling, you aren't touching the stone.
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Unless Tarod shows up with an official SAC or something, RAW would imply that a dwarf could only activate stonecunning while on stone, but once activated, it would function like normal tremorsense so long as the dwarf remained in contact with a stone surface. Tremorsense, meanwhile, defines what a "surface" is in its own description - the ground, a wall, or the ceiling. So, if you are a dwarf, and you are standing on a boulder in the middle of the river, you could pinpoint the location of any other creature in contact with the ground within sixty feet of you. If there is a catfish feeding off the algae in the muddy riverbed within sixty feet of you, you would be able to pinpoint its location. If there was a person standing on the sandy shore fifty feet away, you could pinpoint their location. If there was a salmon swimming through the river, you could not sense it, as it is not touching the ground.
If you, the dwarf, jumped into the river, you would not be able to sense anything, because your stonecunning would crap out the moment you weren't touching the boulder. However, if you were to reach out and grab hold of the boulder, you would be able to sense the catfish, the person on the shore, and the salmon in the water, because now, you are in contact with a stone surface and touching both the same surface as the catfish and the guy on the shore and the same liquid as the salmon.
Likewise, if you were standing on the stone floor of a castle, and there was a fountain full of fish in the castle, you could pinpoint the location of the catfish on the bottom of the fountain, but not the Koi swimming through the water unless you walked into the fountain. You also wouldn't be able to pinpoint the location of the Giant Spider on the wall or the Roper hanging from the ceiling. But if you touched the wall, you could sense the Giant Spider, and if you could somehow also touch the ceiling, you could sense the Roper. So, if you were standing in the worst-designed castle on earth, where you could stand in the fountain while touching the wall and the ceiling, you could pinpoint the location of every creature I just listed. You could not, however, pinpoint the location of the flumph floating in the air behind you.
If you want to argue that these rulings are inappropriate, I agree that the water thing is probably something I wouldn't allow regardless of RAW, but that's how the rules are written.