They’re not contradictory as I read it- the first one is the general rule, and the multiclass supersedes it once you’re preparing spells from multiple class spellcasting features. Doesn’t help with at-will Invocations though, yeah.
You're right. When rules contradict you use the specific over the general. This does change things from how people used to rule Magic Initiate, Shadow-touched, and Fey-touched though. Also this can lead to weird interactions where you can select any of those feats and cast a class spell that doesn't use the ability modifier of your class spellcasting feature.
Boosting the feat spells a bit isn't an issue- that's a very small pool of all low end stuff, it's not like what I thought this would do Sorcerer dips. And while technically you could pick a stat besides one of your class stats to cast with, I doubt it will come up much if at all for obvious reasons.
A class’s spell list specifies the spells that belong to the class. For example, a Sorcerer spell is a spell on the Sorcerer spell list, and if a Sorcerer knows spells that aren’t on that list, those spells aren’t Sorcerer spells unless a feature says otherwise.
Honestly, it's good to finally see this included in the SAC.
It is worth noting that this question is in the General Spellcasting section, and neither the question nor the answer mention a multiclass situation.
The question and answer quoted from the multiclass section clearly implies that the class of the feature via which the spell is gained is the governing factor for deciding which other class-based effects are relevant for that spell.
A Wizard multiclasses into a Sorcerer with the Wild Magic Sorcery subclass. Do spells cast from their spellbook trigger Wild Magic Surge if they are on the Sorcerer spell list, or do they have to gain them from Sorcerer to trigger?
Since the Wild Magic Surge feature just looks for Sorcerer spells cast with a spell slot, this definitely answers the question: No, a spell doesn't qualify as a class spell just because it's on the list. You have to gain it from that class's features for it to qualify.
I'd say the jury's still out on whether or not a feat gained as part of your class progression counts as a class feature, but as a DM, I'd say no.
A Wizard multiclasses into a Sorcerer with the Wild Magic Sorcery subclass. Do spells cast from their spellbook trigger Wild Magic Surge if they are on the Sorcerer spell list, or do they have to gain them from Sorcerer to trigger?
Since the Wild Magic Surge feature just looks for Sorcerer spells cast with a spell slot, this definitely answers the question: No, a spell doesn't qualify as a class spell just because it's on the list. You have to gain it from that class's features for it to qualify.
I'd say the jury's still out on whether or not a feat gained as part of your class progression counts as a class feature, but as a DM, I'd say no.
Sage Advice got this one wrong unfortunately. Their explanation does not align with what the text actually says.
The Multiclass rule describes what to do when you have two different class Features called "Spellcasting".
When you do, you use this rule to determine how to prepare your spells and how to subsequently cast these spells which you have prepared:
Spells Prepared. You determine what spells you can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class.
. . .
Each spell you prepare is associated with one of your classes, and . . .
you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell.
As written, none of that has anything at all to do with which spells are classified as "Warlock Spells", or "Cleric Spells" or any other classification of spells. By rule, those classifications are determined by which spells appear on which class spell lists.
The above rule is only essentially saying:
If you use your Wizard Spellcasting Feature to prepare a particular spell, then that prepared spell is associated with your Wizard class. Per this rule, ALL that that means is that when you cast that spell you must use Intelligence as your spellcasting ability.
Depending on which class spell list(s) this particular spell appears on, this prepared spell might be a Wizard spell, or it might be a Sorcerer spell, or it might be neither or it might be both.
One of the points of Sage Advice is to answer questions that the text does not. You are free to disagree and run your tables your way, but when the developers of the rules are telling you the Rules As Intended for something, by definition they cannot be "wrong".
Thinking about the last comments in the thread, and considering what SAC is saying, we could have two different scenarios ruled differently depending on whether the character is multiclassed or not.
Let's say you have Magic Initiate and you choose Ray of Sickness.
– Sorcerer: you roll with advantage (General Spellcasting answer) – Sorcerer/Wizard: you don't roll with advantage (Multiclassing answer)
Unless my interpretation of the Sorcerer/Wizard case is not right, and if you rule that the spell was prepared as a Sorcerer, then Innate Sorcery would apply too.
Not to resurrect a dead horse here but the title of the thread is "Cantrip questions when multiclassing." Cantrips are not prepared spells, and so don't fall under the scope of the quoted SAC answer. Edit: That said, maybe it's been clarified since then, but I found this thread searching for the answer to the "when do different class features affect the same cantrip" question.
The technical language is ambiguous, but I interpret cantrips as working under the same basic principle as other spells- a cantrip qualifies as a class spell for feature checks if you acquired it from a feature for that class such as Spellcasting, the Thaumaturge Divine Order option, etc…
I think SAC is obviously wrong on the multiclass answer anyway, because it directly contradicts the general rule about when something is a class spell, and nothing about multiclassing should change that according to the multiclass rules.
Sure, each spell you prepare is associated with one of your classes, but that doesn't cause it to stop being on the other class lists. It's still a sorceror spell even if you prepare it as a Warlock/Wizard/Bard/etc... Being associated with the preparing class just affects what attribute you use to set attack roll/DC.
Wild Magic specifically says "after you cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot". It doesn't say "after you cast a spell prepared as a sorceror with a spell slot". Note that SAC is making an argument here: they say "From the multiclassing rules: “Each spell you prepare is associated with one of your classes.” This rule means only the spells prepared as part of your Sorcerer class features trigger Wild Magic Surge." But that rule doesn't mean that at all, because preparing a spell as a Wizard doesn't stop it from being a Sorceror Spell (which even they correctly answer just means its on the Sorceror class list elsewhere). SAC is obviously wrong, because their argument is wrong, and trivially so. I refuse to take something as the official rules when it misunderstands the actual written rules and contradicts not only the RAW, but their own rulings elsewhere.
At best SAC is specifically errataing Wild Magic to say "after you cast a spell prepared as a sorceror with a spell slot". But since they don't even try to change the language, that's a poor reading of their 'ruling'. (They would need to demonstrate they understood what the rules as written actually said to have an actual intent to change what is written. And without a specific intention on what is exactly is changed, it's hard to know if they meant just a change to wild magic, a change to what makes something a Sorceror Spell, or a change to the multiclass rules).
Expanding it outside the specific context of Wild Magic is... mindboggling. What do you do with a scroll or wand then (that contains a Sorceror spell)? Can a single-class sorceror use Innate Sorcery with it, but a multi-class wizard/sorceror cannot? That way lies madness.
That said, it definitely doesn't apply to cantrips, because as Cenauge points out, Cantrips are not prepared spells.
Not to resurrect a dead horse here but the title of the thread is "Cantrip questions when multiclassing." Cantrips are not prepared spells, and so don't fall under the scope of the quoted SAC answer. Edit: That said, maybe it's been clarified since then, but I found this thread searching for the answer to the "when do different class features affect the same cantrip" question.
You're right. When rules contradict you use the specific over the general. This does change things from how people used to rule Magic Initiate, Shadow-touched, and Fey-touched though. Also this can lead to weird interactions where you can select any of those feats and cast a class spell that doesn't use the ability modifier of your class spellcasting feature.
Boosting the feat spells a bit isn't an issue- that's a very small pool of all low end stuff, it's not like what I thought this would do Sorcerer dips. And while technically you could pick a stat besides one of your class stats to cast with, I doubt it will come up much if at all for obvious reasons.
It is worth noting that this question is in the General Spellcasting section, and neither the question nor the answer mention a multiclass situation.
The question and answer quoted from the multiclass section clearly implies that the class of the feature via which the spell is gained is the governing factor for deciding which other class-based effects are relevant for that spell.
This one IS under Multiclassing, though!
Since the Wild Magic Surge feature just looks for Sorcerer spells cast with a spell slot, this definitely answers the question: No, a spell doesn't qualify as a class spell just because it's on the list. You have to gain it from that class's features for it to qualify.
I'd say the jury's still out on whether or not a feat gained as part of your class progression counts as a class feature, but as a DM, I'd say no.
Sage Advice got this one wrong unfortunately. Their explanation does not align with what the text actually says.
The Multiclass rule describes what to do when you have two different class Features called "Spellcasting".
When you do, you use this rule to determine how to prepare your spells and how to subsequently cast these spells which you have prepared:
As written, none of that has anything at all to do with which spells are classified as "Warlock Spells", or "Cleric Spells" or any other classification of spells. By rule, those classifications are determined by which spells appear on which class spell lists.
The above rule is only essentially saying:
If you use your Wizard Spellcasting Feature to prepare a particular spell, then that prepared spell is associated with your Wizard class. Per this rule, ALL that that means is that when you cast that spell you must use Intelligence as your spellcasting ability.
Depending on which class spell list(s) this particular spell appears on, this prepared spell might be a Wizard spell, or it might be a Sorcerer spell, or it might be neither or it might be both.
One of the points of Sage Advice is to answer questions that the text does not. You are free to disagree and run your tables your way, but when the developers of the rules are telling you the Rules As Intended for something, by definition they cannot be "wrong".
Ya I would agree that the sage advice isn't how the text is written but it definitely tells us what the intention is.
Thinking about the last comments in the thread, and considering what SAC is saying, we could have two different scenarios ruled differently depending on whether the character is multiclassed or not.
Let's say you have Magic Initiate and you choose Ray of Sickness.
– Sorcerer: you roll with advantage (General Spellcasting answer)
– Sorcerer/Wizard: you don't roll with advantage (Multiclassing answer)
Unless my interpretation of the Sorcerer/Wizard case is not right, and if you rule that the spell was prepared as a Sorcerer, then Innate Sorcery would apply too.
Not to resurrect a dead horse here but the title of the thread is "Cantrip questions when multiclassing." Cantrips are not prepared spells, and so don't fall under the scope of the quoted SAC answer. Edit: That said, maybe it's been clarified since then, but I found this thread searching for the answer to the "when do different class features affect the same cantrip" question.
The technical language is ambiguous, but I interpret cantrips as working under the same basic principle as other spells- a cantrip qualifies as a class spell for feature checks if you acquired it from a feature for that class such as Spellcasting, the Thaumaturge Divine Order option, etc…
I think SAC is obviously wrong on the multiclass answer anyway, because it directly contradicts the general rule about when something is a class spell, and nothing about multiclassing should change that according to the multiclass rules.
Sure, each spell you prepare is associated with one of your classes, but that doesn't cause it to stop being on the other class lists. It's still a sorceror spell even if you prepare it as a Warlock/Wizard/Bard/etc... Being associated with the preparing class just affects what attribute you use to set attack roll/DC.
Wild Magic specifically says "after you cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot". It doesn't say "after you cast a spell prepared as a sorceror with a spell slot". Note that SAC is making an argument here: they say "From the multiclassing rules: “Each spell you prepare is associated with one of your classes.” This rule means only the spells prepared as part of your Sorcerer class features trigger Wild Magic Surge." But that rule doesn't mean that at all, because preparing a spell as a Wizard doesn't stop it from being a Sorceror Spell (which even they correctly answer just means its on the Sorceror class list elsewhere). SAC is obviously wrong, because their argument is wrong, and trivially so. I refuse to take something as the official rules when it misunderstands the actual written rules and contradicts not only the RAW, but their own rulings elsewhere.
At best SAC is specifically errataing Wild Magic to say "after you cast a spell prepared as a sorceror with a spell slot". But since they don't even try to change the language, that's a poor reading of their 'ruling'. (They would need to demonstrate they understood what the rules as written actually said to have an actual intent to change what is written. And without a specific intention on what is exactly is changed, it's hard to know if they meant just a change to wild magic, a change to what makes something a Sorceror Spell, or a change to the multiclass rules).
Expanding it outside the specific context of Wild Magic is... mindboggling. What do you do with a scroll or wand then (that contains a Sorceror spell)? Can a single-class sorceror use Innate Sorcery with it, but a multi-class wizard/sorceror cannot? That way lies madness.
That said, it definitely doesn't apply to cantrips, because as Cenauge points out, Cantrips are not prepared spells.
There's a more recent thread discussing this, with explanations from other people regarding that SAC answer: Feat granted spells and how they apply
As debated in that thread, probably the multiclassing answer from the SAC is wrong.