The new Tomes and Manuals in the 2024 version, which are now apparently forced on us (The 2014 version is no longer able to be selected from what I've found) is stupid OP.
It gives +2 to a maximum of 30, rather than +2 while raising the cap by 2. This means that if you get one of these and then apply your Ability Score Improvements, you can easily get to 28-29 in that given stat just with those Ability Score Improvements.
Are we really not able to select the old versions of magic items anymore?
The "to a maximum of 30" just means the Tomes and Manuals themselves can't raise an ability score above 30. It doesn't change how other ability score increases work. The ability score increases from normal (i.e., non-Epic Boon) feats still can't increase an ability score above 20, so there's no way to increase an ability score to 28 or 29 using them, regardless of whether you've used one of the Tomes or Manuals.
The "to a maximum of 30" just means the Tomes and Manuals themselves can't raise an ability score above 30. It doesn't change how other ability score increases work. The ability score increases from normal (i.e., non-Epic Boon) feats still can't increase an ability score above 20, so there's no way to increase an ability score to 28 or 29 using them, regardless of whether you've used one of the Tomes or Manuals.
I don't know what to tell you. I did it. It worked. Could it be a bug with D&D Beyond? Maybe, maybe. Regardless, a Tome of Enlightenment, all my stats into Intelligence, and an Ioun Stone of Intellect got me to a 30 in Intelligence on a Level 20 artificer, but it would presumably work for any stat on any clads. You can recreate it, if you'd like.
Those tome you mention are mean to appear every 1d100 years..... so it's very rare finding another tome of the same type ( intellect, Constitution, Strenght, etc )in the same campaign you are actually playing..
The "to a maximum of 30" just means the Tomes and Manuals themselves can't raise an ability score above 30. It doesn't change how other ability score increases work. The ability score increases from normal (i.e., non-Epic Boon) feats still can't increase an ability score above 20, so there's no way to increase an ability score to 28 or 29 using them, regardless of whether you've used one of the Tomes or Manuals.
I don't know what to tell you. I did it. It worked. Could it be a bug with D&D Beyond? Maybe, maybe. Regardless, a Tome of Enlightenment, all my stats into Intelligence, and an Ioun Stone of Intellect got me to a 30 in Intelligence on a Level 20 artificer, but it would presumably work for any stat on any clads. You can recreate it, if you'd like.
D&D Beyond's character builder doesn't really have any concept of the order in which you acquired various increases to your ability scores, so it may very well allow you to do this, but it still isn't actually allowed in the rules of D&D.
The "to a maximum of 30" just means the Tomes and Manuals themselves can't raise an ability score above 30. It doesn't change how other ability score increases work. The ability score increases from normal (i.e., non-Epic Boon) feats still can't increase an ability score above 20, so there's no way to increase an ability score to 28 or 29 using them, regardless of whether you've used one of the Tomes or Manuals.
I don't know what to tell you. I did it. It worked. Could it be a bug with D&D Beyond? Maybe, maybe. Regardless, a Tome of Enlightenment, all my stats into Intelligence, and an Ioun Stone of Intellect got me to a 30 in Intelligence on a Level 20 artificer, but it would presumably work for any stat on any clads. You can recreate it, if you'd like.
D&D Beyond's character builder doesn't really have any concept of the order in which you acquired various increases to your ability scores, so it may very well allow you to do this, but it still isn't actually allowed in the rules of D&D.
Fair enough. I had speculated as much but wanted to post something to make sure.
The new Tomes and Manuals in the 2024 version, which are now apparently forced on us (The 2014 version is no longer able to be selected from what I've found) is stupid OP.
Actually, it's worse than the 2014 version. In 2014, if you read a tome at level 5 and raise your stat from 18 to 20, you can use your ASI at level 8 to raise it to 22. In 2024, you can't -- a tome doesn't increase the max value of the stat at all, it just lets you ignore the max value when reading the tome (this also applies to epic feats).
The new Tomes and Manuals in the 2024 version, which are now apparently forced on us (The 2014 version is no longer able to be selected from what I've found) is stupid OP.
Actually, it's worse than the 2014 version. In 2014, if you read a tome at level 5 and raise your stat from 18 to 20, you can use your ASI at level 8 to raise it to 22. In 2024, you can't -- a tome doesn't increase the max value of the stat at all, it just lets you ignore the max value when reading the tome (this also applies to epic feats).
This wasn't allowed under 2014 rules either; the Ability Score Improvement class features in the 2014 Player's Handbook all say "you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature" and the feats that included ability score increases all say something similar. People do tend to ignore this rule a lot, but it's essentially the same in both 2014 and 2024.
This wasn't allowed under 2014 rules either; the Ability Score Improvement class features in the 2014 Player's Handbook all say "you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature" and the feats that included ability score increases all say something similar. People do tend to ignore this rule a lot, but it's essentially the same in both 2014 and 2024.
The 2014 rules say "As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20". This indicates that there is a general rule, and then the fact that tomes and manuals say "Your maximum is increased by 2" must be referring to that general rule, because there's nothing else it could be referring to.
This wasn't allowed under 2014 rules either; the Ability Score Improvement class features in the 2014 Player's Handbook all say "you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature" and the feats that included ability score increases all say something similar. People do tend to ignore this rule a lot, but it's essentially the same in both 2014 and 2024.
The 2014 rules say "As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20". This indicates that there is a general rule, and then the fact that tomes and manuals say "Your maximum is increased by 2" must be referring to that general rule, because there's nothing else it could be referring to.
Sure, the 2014 tomes let you increase the ability scores above 20. The 2014 ASI features still don't, though; the tomes don't say anything about that.
This wasn't allowed under 2014 rules either; the Ability Score Improvement class features in the 2014 Player's Handbook all say "you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature" and the feats that included ability score increases all say something similar. People do tend to ignore this rule a lot, but it's essentially the same in both 2014 and 2024.
The 2014 rules say "As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20". This indicates that there is a general rule, and then the fact that tomes and manuals say "Your maximum is increased by 2" must be referring to that general rule, because there's nothing else it could be referring to.
Maybe it's referring to "Adventurers can have scores as high as 20..."
This wasn't allowed under 2014 rules either; the Ability Score Improvement class features in the 2014 Player's Handbook all say "you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature" and the feats that included ability score increases all say something similar. People do tend to ignore this rule a lot, but it's essentially the same in both 2014 and 2024.
The 2014 rules say "As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20". This indicates that there is a general rule, and then the fact that tomes and manuals say "Your maximum is increased by 2" must be referring to that general rule, because there's nothing else it could be referring to.
Sure, the 2014 tomes let you increase the ability scores above 20. The 2014 ASI features still don't, though; the tomes don't say anything about that.
Yeah the don't say anything about that except the exact thing he just said they say about that...
The tomes increase the maximum your stat can go by 2. This is an open ended increase to any max. Like, for example, the max that ASI says of 20.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
This wasn't allowed under 2014 rules either; the Ability Score Improvement class features in the 2014 Player's Handbook all say "you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature" and the feats that included ability score increases all say something similar. People do tend to ignore this rule a lot, but it's essentially the same in both 2014 and 2024.
The 2014 rules say "As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20". This indicates that there is a general rule, and then the fact that tomes and manuals say "Your maximum is increased by 2" must be referring to that general rule, because there's nothing else it could be referring to.
Sure, the 2014 tomes let you increase the ability scores above 20. The 2014 ASI features still don't, though; the tomes don't say anything about that.
Yeah the don't say anything about that except the exact thing he just said they say about that...
The tomes increase the maximum your stat can go by 2. This is an open ended increase to any max. Like, for example, the max that ASI says of 20.
20 increased by 2, is 22.
The maximum by default is indeed 20. (This is from the general rule that Jurmondur quoted above and has nothing to do with the ASI features.) The tome increases that maximum by 2, so it's now 22 (unless something else has already increased it, like another tome). This prevents the tome from being useless if the ability score is already at its current max.
This doesn't have any effect on any other features, like ASI features, which say that they themselves, specifically, can't increase a score above 20.
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The new Tomes and Manuals in the 2024 version, which are now apparently forced on us (The 2014 version is no longer able to be selected from what I've found) is stupid OP.
It gives +2 to a maximum of 30, rather than +2 while raising the cap by 2. This means that if you get one of these and then apply your Ability Score Improvements, you can easily get to 28-29 in that given stat just with those Ability Score Improvements.
Are we really not able to select the old versions of magic items anymore?
The "to a maximum of 30" just means the Tomes and Manuals themselves can't raise an ability score above 30. It doesn't change how other ability score increases work. The ability score increases from normal (i.e., non-Epic Boon) feats still can't increase an ability score above 20, so there's no way to increase an ability score to 28 or 29 using them, regardless of whether you've used one of the Tomes or Manuals.
pronouns: he/she/they
I don't know what to tell you. I did it. It worked. Could it be a bug with D&D Beyond? Maybe, maybe. Regardless, a Tome of Enlightenment, all my stats into Intelligence, and an Ioun Stone of Intellect got me to a 30 in Intelligence on a Level 20 artificer, but it would presumably work for any stat on any clads. You can recreate it, if you'd like.
They're right. The Tome of Intellect, at least, let's you boost INT all the way to 30.
Those tome you mention are mean to appear every 1d100 years..... so it's very rare finding another tome of the same type ( intellect, Constitution, Strenght, etc )in the same campaign you are actually playing..
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D&D Beyond's character builder doesn't really have any concept of the order in which you acquired various increases to your ability scores, so it may very well allow you to do this, but it still isn't actually allowed in the rules of D&D.
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Fair enough. I had speculated as much but wanted to post something to make sure.
Actually, it's worse than the 2014 version. In 2014, if you read a tome at level 5 and raise your stat from 18 to 20, you can use your ASI at level 8 to raise it to 22. In 2024, you can't -- a tome doesn't increase the max value of the stat at all, it just lets you ignore the max value when reading the tome (this also applies to epic feats).
This wasn't allowed under 2014 rules either; the Ability Score Improvement class features in the 2014 Player's Handbook all say "you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature" and the feats that included ability score increases all say something similar. People do tend to ignore this rule a lot, but it's essentially the same in both 2014 and 2024.
pronouns: he/she/they
The 2014 rules say "As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20". This indicates that there is a general rule, and then the fact that tomes and manuals say "Your maximum is increased by 2" must be referring to that general rule, because there's nothing else it could be referring to.
Sure, the 2014 tomes let you increase the ability scores above 20. The 2014 ASI features still don't, though; the tomes don't say anything about that.
pronouns: he/she/they
Maybe it's referring to "Adventurers can have scores as high as 20..."
Yeah the don't say anything about that except the exact thing he just said they say about that...
The tomes increase the maximum your stat can go by 2. This is an open ended increase to any max. Like, for example, the max that ASI says of 20.
20 increased by 2, is 22.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The maximum by default is indeed 20. (This is from the general rule that Jurmondur quoted above and has nothing to do with the ASI features.) The tome increases that maximum by 2, so it's now 22 (unless something else has already increased it, like another tome). This prevents the tome from being useless if the ability score is already at its current max.
This doesn't have any effect on any other features, like ASI features, which say that they themselves, specifically, can't increase a score above 20.
pronouns: he/she/they