How does Twist of Fate (from the legendary magic item Spindle of Fate) interact with Legendary Resistance?
Spindle of Fate
Twist of Fate.When a creature within 60 feet of you makes a saving throw or an attack roll, you can use your reaction to expend 3 charges and alter the outcome, turning a failed saving throw into a successful one, a missed attack roll into a hit, or vice versa.
Legendary Resistance (n/Day) If [the creature] fails a saving throw, it can choose to succeed instead.
Is there a priority order for these effects?
Can Legendary Resistance trigger after Twist of Fate (or vice versa)?
If both trigger on the same saving throw:
Are these effects limited to one use per saving throw? Can they create a chain (e.g., success → failure → success → failure → success) if multiple Spindles of Fate (and reactions) or Legendary Resistance exist?
It's a bit of a judgement call for the DM, but I would say that the Spindle of Fate can cause a successful save to turn into a failed one, but can not override the auto-success from Legendary Resistance.
To me it sounds like the Simultaneous Effects rule applies, meaning whoever's turn it is gets to decide what order those things happen in. In which case, yes, it can be chained, potentially causing a creature to use up multiple Legendary Resistances to succeed on one save.
I am probably slightly biased since I hate Legendary Resistance as a mechanic in general, so take that with a grain of salt.
I would say that a legendary resistance save is not a roll and thus is not subject to the Spindle. Dragon rolls, saves, Spindle makes the roll fail, legendary resistance makes the save succeed.
To me it sounds like the Simultaneous Effects rule applies, meaning whoever's turn it is gets to decide what order those things happen in. In which case, yes, it can be chained, potentially causing a creature to use up multiple Legendary Resistances to succeed on one save.
I am probably slightly biased since I hate Legendary Resistance as a mechanic in general, so take that with a grain of salt.
That feature of the Spindle uses your reaction, so there would be no way to chain it
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
To me it sounds like the Simultaneous Effects rule applies, meaning whoever's turn it is gets to decide what order those things happen in. In which case, yes, it can be chained, potentially causing a creature to use up multiple Legendary Resistances to succeed on one save.
I am probably slightly biased since I hate Legendary Resistance as a mechanic in general, so take that with a grain of salt.
That feature of the Spindle uses your reaction, so there would be no way to chain it
The question was about whether it could be chained if multiple people with multiple spindles were involved.
Can the silvery barbs spell in Strixhaven affect Legendary Resistance?
No. When a creature uses Legendary Resistance, the creature turns a failed saving throw into a success, regardless of the number rolled on the d20. Forcing that creature to reroll the d20 afterward doesn’t change the fact that the save succeeded as a result of Legendary Resistance. No amount of rerolling will undo that success.
However the Spindle of Fate doesn't force a re-roll but rather uses the same "change one into another" mechanic as Legendary Resistances does. But as Twist of Fate triggers on a roll that fails/succeeds and LR just looks for for a save being a failed I would probably only let LR beat Twist of Fate but not the other way around. But then again the Spindle of Faith is a legendary item so I might let both work (but no chain, one possibility for each).
To me it sounds like the Simultaneous Effects rule applies, meaning whoever's turn it is gets to decide what order those things happen in. In which case, yes, it can be chained, potentially causing a creature to use up multiple Legendary Resistances to succeed on one save.
I am probably slightly biased since I hate Legendary Resistance as a mechanic in general, so take that with a grain of salt.
That feature of the Spindle uses your reaction, so there would be no way to chain it
The question was about whether it could be chained if multiple people with multiple spindles were involved.
It's a legendary magic item. If multiple copies are allowed in the game, you might as well give characters multiple reactions too because things are already in hella broken territory
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
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How does Twist of Fate (from the legendary magic item Spindle of Fate) interact with Legendary Resistance?
Is there a priority order for these effects?
Can Legendary Resistance trigger after Twist of Fate (or vice versa)?
If both trigger on the same saving throw:
Are these effects limited to one use per saving throw? Can they create a chain (e.g., success → failure → success → failure → success) if multiple Spindles of Fate (and reactions) or Legendary Resistance exist?
Does this qualify as Simultaneous Effects (PHB)?
If so, whoever's turn it is, let that player decides which of the effects happens first?
It's a bit of a judgement call for the DM, but I would say that the Spindle of Fate can cause a successful save to turn into a failed one, but can not override the auto-success from Legendary Resistance.
To me it sounds like the Simultaneous Effects rule applies, meaning whoever's turn it is gets to decide what order those things happen in. In which case, yes, it can be chained, potentially causing a creature to use up multiple Legendary Resistances to succeed on one save.
I am probably slightly biased since I hate Legendary Resistance as a mechanic in general, so take that with a grain of salt.
pronouns: he/she/they
I would say that a legendary resistance save is not a roll and thus is not subject to the Spindle. Dragon rolls, saves, Spindle makes the roll fail, legendary resistance makes the save succeed.
IMO, Simultaneous Effects is the rule to apply in that situation, so #2 is ok too.
That feature of the Spindle uses your reaction, so there would be no way to chain it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The question was about whether it could be chained if multiple people with multiple spindles were involved.
pronouns: he/she/they
This is what the 2014 SAC says about Legendary Resistance and re-rolls, it has not been re-printed in the 2024 SAC but I see no change in the rules that would make it not still apply.
However the Spindle of Fate doesn't force a re-roll but rather uses the same "change one into another" mechanic as Legendary Resistances does. But as Twist of Fate triggers on a roll that fails/succeeds and LR just looks for for a save being a failed I would probably only let LR beat Twist of Fate but not the other way around. But then again the Spindle of Faith is a legendary item so I might let both work (but no chain, one possibility for each).
It's a legendary magic item. If multiple copies are allowed in the game, you might as well give characters multiple reactions too because things are already in hella broken territory
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)