Potent Dragonmark and Spell Slots

Quote from MoribundEidolon >>

Quote from Tarod_ >>

@MoribundEidolon Maybe I'm wrong, so sorry in advance if that's the case, but it seems to me that you're also basing your ruling on this answer from the 5.5e SAC:

 
Very kind of you, Tarod.  Yes I see the quoted clarification from the Multiclass section of the SAC to be in apparent conflict with the ruling in the General Spellcasting section about what does and does not constitute a “Sorcerer Spell” if you try to follow both simultaneously.  I believe this is because the rules themselves are inconsistent with sometimes using “Wizard spell” to mean “a spell prepared or learned with a Wizard class feature”, while at other times using it to mean “a spell on the Wizard spell list”.  I see the most consistent way to distinguish between those homographic phrases is by assuming it means the former if at all possible.  Thus, the “Wizard spells” in the Arcane Trickster's Spellcasting feature are “spells on the Wizard spell list” in the “Prepared Spells Level 1+” section (because it’s nonsensical to only prepare spells you already have prepared), but it means “spells prepared as a Wizard” in the “Spellcasting Ability” section with the implicit assumption that spells prepared as an Arcane Trickster also count.  Obviously, even that isn’t perfectly clean or free from interpretation, but you can at least read the SAC as somewhat internally consistent if it’s using the terminology in this bifurcated fashion. [...]

 Know what? Your ruling is as valid as any other to me, and it makes sense as well if you want to consider both SAC answers at your table.

Quote from MoribundEidolon >>

Quote from up2ng>>

 It's still the same options.  This is an example of a Feat that prepares a class spell and is then somehow cast.  That's precisely what I described in my previous post.

Wouldn’t a character with multiple Spellcasting classes have multiple sets of Spellcasting features, Focus options, etc., that are all equally valid à la cart options to use if the spell is one prepared via Potent Dragonmark?  They’d be class spells for all the classes.  Is that not exponentially more options using your interpretation?

Not really.  As mentioned earlier, as soon as you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one class then the multiclass rule applies.  If you have more than one Spellcasting feature and you use one of those features to prepare a spell, then you must use the spellcasting ability from that feature when you cast it.  This was always true regardless of any of this stuff regarding Potent Dragonmark.  There were already cases where the spell in question appears on all of your class lists at which point during spell preparation you would have to decide which of your Level 1+ Lists to put that spell on.  If you really wanted to, you could add such a spell onto multiple Level 1+ Lists during preparation which would then give you multiple options for which spellcasting ability to use when casting it.  Potent Dragonmark just makes sure that the spell in question is added to all of the class lists, but it already could have been depending on the spell.

Quote from MoribundEidolon >>

The Spellcasting Feature grants spell slots, but neither the Spellcasting Feature nor the Spells rules applies any restrictions on what spells the granted spell slots can be used for beyond: “Before you can cast a spell, you must have the spell prepared in your mind”.  Spell slots are a resource that’s fungible, they behave the same regardless of the class that granted them: they have levels and you get them all back after a Long Rest*.  Sure, the Spellcasting Feature details how class spells are used in conjunction with the Spells rules and most non-class sources of prepared spells have clarifying language about using any spell slots, but there simply is no verbiage about a Sorcerer’s spell slots being “for your Sorcerer spells”.  That can only mean the spell slots are available to be used for any prepared spell, not just spells you prepare with that class.

Although this is a reasonable interpretation, I still disagree with it.  For one thing, there are outside Feats and Features that go out of their way to explicitly state that a spell given by that feature can be cast using any spell slots that you have.  Also, this actually is a case where the multiclass rule lends credence to my interpretation if we assume that the RAI is to maintain a consistent design for such things:  "You use the slots for that level to cast spells of an appropriate level from any class whose Spellcasting feature you have."

Quote from MoribundEidolon >>

As a counter example to class spells being defined by spell list, let’s consider a context where the Spellcasting Feature applies restrictions on class spells: the Artificer’s Tools Required.  That feature requires all Artificer spells to be cast with an Artisan Tools as a Spellcasting Focus.  So, if an aasimar multiclasses into Artificer at 3rd level, does he suddenly need to have a shoe last on hand to cast the light cantrip he’s been using perfectly fine for the last two levels?  By the Sage Advice, because light is on the Artificer spell list it is an “Artificer spell”. But treating it that way is an absurd interpretation of the rules.  Light, when cast by that character, is not an Artificer spell because he didn’t get it from being an Artificer, he got it from being an aasimar.  Because he got it that way, he always uses Charisma as his Spellcasting Ability for it and Tools Required doesn’t apply.  He doesn’t cast the spell using  some janky combination of features from different sources.

Yeah, this feature wasn't well written and probably needed errata.  There have been entire threads dedicated to discussing this exact thing.  The way that most people play it is that if you are not using that Spellcasting feature to actually cast the spell then that restriction would not apply.  However, by a strict reading where having access to this feature just always passively applies this restriction, then you are correct -- what you've described above is what would happen.

Quote from Tarod_ >>

 Well, the Spellcasting Ability is overridden by some Dragonmark Feats, which tell you which ability to use. 

No, that's not how that works.  Features don't get "overridden" unless there is an actual rules contradiction.  In this case, you just sometimes have multiple options in these situations.  The Feat provides a Spellcasting Ability because otherwise there are many scenarios where you wouldn't have one when attempting to cast the spell that is provided by the Feat.  But if you do have another qualifying option then that option is still available as well.

Quote from MoribundEidolon >>

I don’t understand a logical framework that would support.a spell prepared by a class feature being treated more restrictively than one coming from a Feat or Species.  

I'm not sure what you mean by this?  More restrictively?

I'm just pointing out that when you have access to more than one Feature then all such Features apply whenever the prerequisite conditions are met for all of those Features at the same time.

Let me try to manufacture as simple an example as possible and see what you disagree with:

I am a Sorcerer with a Spellcasting Feature that says:  "Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your Sorcerer spells."  I have used this Feature to "learn" the Fire Bolt cantrip.

1.  I take the Magic Initiate Feat and choose a Cantrip from the Cleric class list.  I choose Guidance and for whatever reason I choose Wisdom as the spellcasting ability for this Feat's spells.

OR

2.  I take the Magic Initiate Feat and choose a Cantrip from the Cleric class list.  I choose Mending and for whatever reason I choose Wisdom as the spellcasting ability for this Feat's spells.  Assume that I have never used my Sorcerer Spellcasting Feature to "learn" the Mending cantrip.

In situation #1, Guidance is not a Sorcerer spell because it is not on the Sorcerer spell list.  Therefore, I cannot use Charisma when casting that spell.  I must use Wisdom (from the Feat).  Likewise, if I cast Fire Bolt, that spell is not one of "this Feat's spells".  Therefore, I cannot use Wisdom when casting that spell.  I must use Charisma.

In situation #2, Mending is a Sorcerer spell (as well as a Cleric spell) because it does appear on the Sorcerer spell list.  Therefore, I can use Charisma when casting that spell even though I had never learned that Cantrip in any other manner except from the Feat.  The requirement is that it's a Sorcerer spell and that it is prepared in my mind.  If desired, I could instead cast the Mending spell by using Wisdom.  That's because the Mending spell also qualifies as being one of "this Feat's spells".  

Hopefully that helps.