Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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that would make it worse. if you need the parts you are tossing parts in the garbage when doing this since it falls apart in a day. I'm not great with tools, just basic skills picked up from growing up poor with a do it your selfer dad. I can make tons of these fast craft items in a hour or less and while they wont last as long as a ones made by pros they will function and last longer than a day.
Yes, I read it. It doesn't matter how many times you post it. Either you are spending half the cost of the item to have the item until you complete a long rest and it falls apart, at which point, you do not get your crafting materials back because it does not say you recover the materials or you lose nothing because you spent nothing on to create the item. I think the second reading is the intended reading because if it was intended to use the crafting rules, it wouldn't need to tell you what tools to use.
Either way, at the end of the long rest, you do not have an object and therefore cannot repair it. At best, you have perfectly intact components that do not need to be mended.
No. The entirety of the community, except for you alone, does not have it wrong.
It's a terrible feat. It has nothing to do with being magical or not. Your reading makes it worse because it requires gold and does not allow you to recoup the materials. Either way, you cannot restore an object that no longer exists using Mending. That might be weaker than Fabricate but not Cantrip level weaker. You cannot salvage the feat without a complete overhaul with a house rule. You cannot salvage the feat by abusing Mending. When the object falls apart, there is no object and you do not have a valid target for Mending.
It's not about balance; it's about that's not RAW or RAI. If you took away the falling apart and make it a once-a-day craft an item on the list, it wouldn't be unbalanced, but I would still never take it. Nothing on the list takes more than a day to craft normally.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Nothing in the feat says that it is made from nothing. It says “you can craft” as you finish a long rest as long as you have proficiency with the tools and the tools present. The general rules for crafting say that it is from raw materials that have a certain cash value, but the raw materials can also be from the environment (RAW “at DM’s determination.”) They need not cost gold but can be salvaged from the environment or other things.
You can buy the materials from a store (these are cheap items) but they can also be made from scraps and salvage and other things. This is the DM discretion part.
Random loot generators often include random things and this is the idea: collecting interesting junk you can use later. That is the ultimate Artisan power -> trash to treasure. Put some weird stuff in your bag of holding.
I myself would not take crafter after level 1. It is an origin feat and is not a hybrid feat with an ASI stat point.
But at level 1 it has the added benefit of a 4th tool and can be anything. Anything.
Most of the tools have “Utilize” features above and beyond the crafting. So I am exploring build options.
I don’t agree with the knee jerk reaction of the Youtubers toward this background/feat.
I mean, Tough just gives you 2 hit points per level. Lucky lets you get advantage. Magic initiate gets you two cantrips and a free daily level 1.
Artisan lets you be MacGyver.
An item that falls apart is broken, not gone forever. Mending should apply.
Well its not a conjuration spell.
People are acting like its a 24 hour conjuration that just disappears.
RAW “falls apart” means it breaks. Mending should fix it like it does with broken chains, ripped garments, etc.
The resistance toward this is because people simply misunderstand crafting in 2024.
Crafting is not a spell. It requires raw materials. It is at DM’s discretion how these can be found. But if I am in the middle of a forest, I can find wood for free.
A thief steals your bag. You are kidnapped and wake up in prison or a cage. You get shipwrecked on an island. You get lost and separated. Look around…. what do you see? What can you build with your tools on hand?
A background is not a build. This is just one piece of a bigger build.
Mending + Fast Craft should work because an object “falls apart” like a tent in a storm. It isn’t gone. It just needs the Artisan touch. Mending speeds this up. There are other tricks. The shenanigans at high levels are probably ridiculous.
If it intended to use the crafting rules, it would not need to tell you that you need the tools and proficiency in those tools. That is already part of the crafting rules and would just be wasting space. They could have said, "When you finish a long rest, you can craft one of the following items instead of taking a full day: [insert list]". They did not do that. So, now you have to question whether any part of the crafting rules are being used. If they are, it's just supplying the raw materials and never getting them back. If they are not, it's creating something from nothing.
No other feat requires money to fuel it or DM intervention to function.
Crafting, if it applies in this situation, doesn't work that way. The raw materials are just abstracted as piles of copper, silver, or gold. The clockwork music box that you looted and has no official value can't be used to craft anything. Crafting does not turn trash to treasure and neither does Fast Craffer.
It's not knee jerk. Tough, Lucky, and Magic Initiate are fantastic options and show how incredibly outclassed Crafter is.
It isn't and it doesn't. It doesn't say it breaks. The object is gone. If you are paying to fuel the ability, it terrible.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
You keep adding your personal house rules to the text. Fall apart does not mean gone. This is a misinterpretation of the text.
Its bizarre to say no other feat costs money. Magic Initiate has level 1 spells that consume things (ie snare, etc). Chef requires materials. Healer consumes medical packs.
Crafting uses raw materials. The reason the tools are mentioned is so players know what creates what. The reason raw materials require DM discretion is because the rules have to work across the multiverse. One such discretion is how Nature and Survival skills would be used in gathering materials.
Magic initiate does not fully explain the magic system. It fits into it.
Fast Crafting is a mod to the general crafting rules. It is not a magical action. It is not specific to artificers.
The #1 complaint about 5e crafting is time required. This feat speeds it up for basic things.
The Youtubers read it wrong and wrote it off. Artisan is a cool background for the right build.
It's not a house rule. That's what it means; if they mean that it breaks, they would have said that it breaks. You are misunderstanding the feat and refusing to hear other explanations of the rules. It's not a house rule. You had a ladder. It fell apart. You no longer have a ladder.
At best, it returned to its constituent parts. I am not house ruling anything. You have been told what RAW and RAI. I don't think I have explicitly said that RAW supports the interpretation that it costs money to provide the raw materials. It does not support the interpretation that the object remains in any state. It does not support that you get those materials back. If they're required, they are gone. I believe the intended interpretation is that you craft it from nothing that you provide that has financial value. You craft it from the junk you find where you are at the time and then it goes back to effectively nothing at the end of that time, technically something from nothing and back to nothing.
What are the costs of Chef's ingredients?
Healer adds an additional Utilize option to an already consumable item. A Healer's Kit has 10 uses and costs 5 GP. You can trade one of those uses, not the whole Healer's Kit for healing. At the end of a long rest, you don't lose those hit points. I will take this as a valid counterpoint, but it's not quite the same and one outlier does not set a trend.
If the spell has a costly material component. Out of 63 level 1 Cleric, Druid, or Wizard spells, 7 have a cost specified, 4 of which consume that material component. 5 valid spells that consume the material component (4 with a cost, plus Snare*), regardless of cost. That is still 66 choices that without a question don't require a costly material component. Many of the choices that require a costly material component are poor choices for the feat, such as Ceremony and Find Familiar.
* Snare is an interesting one and may warrant a separate thread. 50 feet of rope is a mundane item. Snare requires 25 feet of rope but does not specify a cost so it is technically a material component without a cost.
You do not need to choose a spell with a costly material component so Magic Initiate does not require money to function.
Tools already describe what they can craft. Crafter even makes tools worse by requiring Woodcarver's Tools to make a Quarterstaff when it can normally be crafted by Carpenter's Tools. Some perfectly reasonable potential options are not on the list, like a Sling or Backpack.
I don't think so. It's not a magical action but that has no bearing on this discussion. The Artificer version is far better.
If costly raw materials are required by Fast Crafter, then the feat is far worse because the feat has to say that you get the materials back when the object falls apart. If it doesn't say that, you lose the money spent. If the feat does not say the object is broken or torn, Mending can't do anything about it. If the object is gone, there is nothing for Mending to target.
Crafting time is fairly in line with prior editions. It might be faster, but I'd have to check. The issue isn't really crafting time but the interaction of crafting time and downtime. And no one is complaining about the time it takes to craft a bucket. Fast Crafter gives you an item temporarily that you can probably just afford by level 2 and probably part way into level 1. For the cost of some Artisan's Tools (50 GP), you can just have everything that list allows you to fast craft (18.58 GP if I mathed correctly). In 2024, 5e bypasses this issue partially with Bastions. You can issue craft orders to your bastions for both mundane items (level 5+) and magic items (level 9+). The crafting then occurs during the campaign and is not restricted to downtime. Fast Crafter solves none of these issues because it doesn't apply to any items people had an issue with crafting.
Additionally, many of the complaints about the crafting system are how basic it is (especially compared to earlier editions) and in 2014, it was just a begrudgingly tacked on system that was just dull. In 2024 it is slightly better, but still boring. I really don't think the developers want you to craft in D&D. I say that as someone who started in 2e and primarily plays Paladins and Artificers. In fact, with the recent Eberron book, crafting as an Artificer in some ways got worse than in 2014 and both are worse than 3.5e.
Also, note that if you can convince your DM to use hours instead of days for crafting times, all of the items on the Fast Crafter list take less than 2 hours to craft and most take less than 1 hour. This would be a house rule but would allow you to make multiple buckets in an 8-hour workday.
Discount can be helpful at low levels if you are buying and not finding your gear and/or in campaigns where magic items are rare. 20% off of Plate Armor is a decent chunk of change. However, that represents bargain hunting, not crafting. If the discount also applied to crafting, that would be better since that could also help crafting magic items (if the base item has a cost, that cost would be reduced), but it doesn't. Additionally, to be good, it relies on assumptions that the setting is not consistent with default D&D setting.
The YouTuber read it correctly, potential interpretations recording needing to pay for materials or not aside. The feat is objectively terrible and there are better options. If you like it, enjoy it. If you are trying to convince someone, such as your DM, that Mending should restore Fast Crafted items, talk to them directly because that is a house rule. If I were going to house rule that, I would instead house rule that for the normal crafting cost, the item is permanent. Even then, it's going to fall off in usefulness quickly and will be cumbersome if you don't have a [Tooltip Not Found]. With no standard retraining rules in 5e, it will become dead weight, but the Origin feats won't typically make or break a build.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
You wrote a lot here.
My reading of the feat does not erase the already required rules for crafting. The feat is a mod on time required and outcome.
When I read the required rules for non-magical items in the PHB they are looser than the ones for magical items in the DMG. The addition of language in the DMG beyond that of the PHB gives two percentages: 75% chance in cities, 25% chance in other locations, for materials available. The PHB for non-magicals says “per DM discretion.” Because it is DM’s discretion you and I could both be right at our own tables.
So at my table the fast craft materials are available if they are logically nearby. And a broken apart tool can be mended per DMs discretion. We can both be right.
An individual DM might wish for Artisan to be bad and make it so, possibly because multiplying by 0.8 in every transaction is tedious. But another DM might use the RAW rules to make Artisan good.
I am going to begin working on Artisan builds based on the assumption of DM discretion, who can alter the game with House Rules at their discretion in any case.
The “contested” use of mending and the contested “raw goods” can be up to the DM. I have a feeling that most DMs simply want people to show up for the game.
You can house rule how you like, but the objects aren't broken. They've fallen apart and aren't valid targets for Mending. You can say the raw materials are returned, but that's still not RAW. We are on a forum about discussing RAW and RAI. You asked for RAW and RAI. Yet you repeatedly ignore RAW and RAI. You cannot restore a Fast Crafted item with Mending by any reading of RAW or RAI.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
RAW the fast crafting ability works within broader crafting rules. Even the Level 4 crafting spell Fabricate requires raw materials and it is a spell. Fast crafting is not a spell and you say it requires no materials. That is a stretch to me…. not RAW.
We might agree on something: the feat is poorly worded.
To build off the original question, here is another scenario.
Let’s say I fast crafted a quarterstaff at dawn, and at dusk before I went to sleep I sawed it in two. Since it has not “fallen apart” per the feat, I should be able to cast mending on it as it is still an object. Since it is not a spell with a duration, it should reset the 24 hour countdown. After the next long rest I should be able to craft another item and repeat this process of damaging and then mending. Since it is before its “fall apart time” it is subject to normal damage and can be targeted by mending. It is not a spell with a fixed duration but an item with limited durability.
And maybe let’s not pretend that Artisan with its 20% discount and 4 tools at level 1 is not going to make Fabricate at Wizard 7 the absolute gold mine that it already is. We’ll just also have a head start with the exploits.
No, it wouldn't. There is zero reason why the countdown would reset. The only way to extend the duration is by not taking a long rest which is far worse than being out a quarterstaff.
Not really, if Discount applies to the raw materials for crafting, the usefulness still falls off pretty quickly. By the time you can cast Fabricate, you'll be struggling to find a way to benefit from Crafter in any capacity. There is no gold mine or exploits in Crafter at any level.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
I disagree again. Let me address fabricate first. Here is the text.
”You convert raw materials into products of the same material. For example, you can fabricate a wooden bridge from a clump of trees, a rope from a patch of hemp, or clothes from flax or wool.
Choose raw materials that you can see within range. You can fabricate a Large or smaller object (contained within a 10-foot Cube or eight connected 5-foot Cubes) given a sufficient quantity of material. If you’re working with metal, stone, or another mineral substance, however, the fabricated object can be no larger than Medium (contained within a 5-foot Cube). The quality of any fabricated objects is based on the quality of the raw materials.
Creatures and magic items can’t be created by this spell. You also can’t use it to create items that require a high degree of skill—such as weapons and armor—unless you have proficiency with the type of Artisan’s Tools used to craft such objects.”
Artisan background gives you four tools. Combined with fabricate you can convert raw materials into weapons and armor instantaneously. You are not limited to just the fast craft table but any non-magical item in the game. If you are in the middle of the forest you can create a log cabin and then fill it with tools. In…. like….. seconds.
You can use “Locate Animal or Plants” spell to find materials required to make other things.
But if you have the cash you can just buy it at 20% off.
Now….. you ready?
Artisan let’s you make an Iron Pot via fast crafting. You can use fabricate to convert it into steel ingot which is made of iron. After 3-4 days you have enough to make plate armor.
The phrase “fall apart” would not poof the transmuted iron ingot. Fast Crafting is not a summon x spell.
(This final part is if you don’t believe you need raw materials for fast craft. I am arguing that you do. But if you insist on me having free iron ingot at Wizard 7 I’m going to make plate armor, sell it, and buy all the other stuff I want at 20% off and then weave my wife a quilt in my spare time).
It doesn't matter how many times you disagree. You asked for RAW/RAI. You were given it and ignored it. If you want house rules, there's Homebrew & House Rules.
No. It can't. Fast Craft and Fabricate don't interact at all. In seconds, you can Fabricate one item, nowhere enough to "fill a log cabin".
Scribe gives you calligrapher's supplies and the skilled feat which can be used for 3 more artisan's tools, 3 skills, or a combination of both. It is objectively more flexible and far better than Artisan. If you need Fabricate to make Crafter worth taking, Skilled is just as capable of capitalizing on it.
Nothing Fast Crafter produces is a raw material so it can't be targeted by Fabricate. Here is the text (emphasis added):
You don't make Plate Armor from Iron Pots by turning the Iron Pots into metal ingots, whether the pots were made by Fast Crafter first or not. So, according to your interpretation, at best, you would be spending 750 gold to collect metal to make into Iron Pots and then using Fabricate to turn those Iron Pots into Plate Armor instead gathering 750 GP worth of materials for Plate Armor. It falls apart because your Iron Pot falls apart before you can collect a second one, let alone enough to represent 750 GP in material. I fail to see your exploit.
As an aside, saying that you can craft a bridge with the spell, but something requiring skill requires tool proficiency seems disrespectful.
The discount is fine at low levels. If you aren't going past level 5, it's probably decent. You will very quickly have everything you need that the discount applies to. "Quickly", because, in D&D's economy, the Discount applies to relatively cheap things, and the most expensive items it applies to are one-time purchases like Plate Armor. 300 GP off Plate Armor is cool, but you will probably find or want to seek out magic armor. Any big purchase you might want to make with Discount is something you are going to want a magic version of and the discount doesn't apply. To make it worthwhile, you will have to try to find a way to build around Alchemist's Fire at 40 GP instead of 50 GP each. Woo.
Technically, it does apply vehicles so there is edge case for large savings there, but only for the nonmagical aspects. For example, you could buy a Bombard Spelljammer for 10k less, but you would have to pay full price for the spelljamming helm. By the time you are spending 40k on secondary items, an extra 10k probably isn't a big deal.
If you use poison, it can help in that scenario, but again, by the time you are using expensive poisons, the gold cost probably isn't meaningful. Still, if you use poison, consider Artisan for the discount, but you probably have better options.
Take Artisan if you like it. It's universally a subpar to bad background. But if you like it, don't let it stop you. If you want to optimize a bit around it, use poisons.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
In your scenario the iron pot is free and is pure iron. It is a raw material in its purest form. It could be fabricated to steel ingot which would have a much higher cost because it is now refined. As steel it would probably require a matter of days to have enough.
This would be DM discretion.
There is iron in the soil. I could use mold earth cantrip to extract it, elementalism cantrip to collect it into piles, unseen servant to melt it down while I sleep, and than I could use blacksmith tools to form ingots during my 4 hours of bonus night time as an elf. The end result would by identical to an iron pot I melted down. My discretion would make it feasible if all the pieces were in place.
My Artisan build I am pondering would take artisan as well as skilled 3x without forfeiting any ASI points for a total of 13+ tools. The original mending question is about the early game before wizard 7.
I do believe the rules don't interact at all, just as most forum commenters point out vis a vis Fast Crafter and Mending. It's probably fine to house rule it so that it does.
The reason for that is the same reason for why most of them also think that Fast Crafter and Tinker's Magic are both underpowered feats. Most people already house rule it to oblivion, usually unintentionally.
There are two separate incidences for how this happens.
The first is that people would usually frame their campaigns in such a manner than mundane tools are completely worthless. Things just get done offscreen automatically without thought and everything is just combat or thinking or whatever. It's a theme-park version of D&D, though arguably the entire game is like that, so YMMV. Anyone who's hiked in the wilderness and carried everything with them on their backs will understand that not only are mundane tools essential to survival, but the ability to just pull a shovel out of thin air is amazing. That said, I do not think most gamers really have an understanding for how that entire thing works and feels, and even fewer have the inclination to gamify the requirement of having to dig a poop hole multiple times a day if you don't want to get tracked by gnolls.
The second way that people house rule the unimportance of mundane tools is that they're basically giving everyone Fast Crafter and Tinker's Magic benefits without thinking about it. The most common way they do this is probably just DMs and players presuming that every mundane item is in the players' backpack regardless of whether or not they actually bought those items, or simply failing to structure normal challenges in a manner where mundane tools would give character a significant advantage, even that's supposed to be very commonplace and that's why human made tools in the first place. Obvious examples are Strength checks that should be impossible without a crowbar, but your DM allows you to make it a normal Strength check anyway. Another example is forgetting to track light and darkness, which should normally just be a problem everywhere, including for characters who have Darkvision, because most of that only extends up to 60 feet, which isn't all that far. Most modern humans don't understand what it's like to not see because even rural areas these days have amazing lighting options.
So.
It doesn't work like that, but it's probably fine if you house rule it that way since most people are house ruling way more egregious things.
Most of the conversation so far has been about raw materials and whether or not the tools leave behind components, and then evolved into complex debates about crafting.
You took a very helpful approach and this grounds the conversation better. At the end of the day, Fast Crafting + Mending would simply create a tool box of common items that could not be sold, that only the crafter could probably repair and use.
But Fast Crafting is also very use in many situations where you benefit from gear disappearing or being consumed.
Caltrops on a road that disappear in the morning. Rope around a captive or tying a beast down that disappears. Rope that is consumed by the snare spell. A jug of oil that leaks at dawn, igniting a planned fire. A ladder up to a 2nd floor building that crumbles at dawn, after you snuck in and out in the middle of the night. A makeshift quarterstaff for a spellcaster that has been imprisoned.
Sure most of this isn’t “killing monsters with math.” But that’s the RP. Combat is pretty straight forward until higher levels.
LOL. Great visual. Bastions really contribute to reducing the usefulness of tool proficiencies in 5e. Your hirelings take care of it off screen for you. It devalues crafting focused PCs, Artificer or not. Between the Smithy and the Workshop, you probably have everything you need and there is no point in Artisan tool proficiency for many characters. Then, you have the secondary issue of how much downtime you have that you can leverage for crafting between adventures.
However, it's not that having a shovel constantly at hand isn't useful, it's that the item can only be created at the end of a long rest and that the items it creates are so limited and cheap, that you can very easily include them in your starting equipment, let alone your standard equipment at levels 2+. Additionally, D&D's encumbrance is so forgiving that being able to create an item on the fly as opposed to having to carry it around doesn't have much value. It's a problem that's far worse for an Artificer, by the way, because their level 1 feature becomes pretty useless when they have guaranteed access to a bag of holding at level 2. If you aren't an Artificer, the Crafter feat may hold its value longer than Tinker's Magic.
Wizard: "I can ritual cast spells from my spellbook."
Artificer: "I can make marbles for free."
I think it's on the player to remind the DM that they can, for example, use their tool proficiency for a check. If you are trying to pry open a container, you should know that your Carpenter's Tools will allow you to add your proficiency bonus to the Strength Check, but it's a Strength Check with or without them. That's the advantage of the tool. The Crowbar is different. It is still a Strength Check, but now having Crowbar gives you Advantage (which means that the Strength Check is possible as a straight roll without it). As a DM and a player, there are cases where I do hand wave inventory, but usually it's more for things that don't appear in the equipment list. Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog and the Arms and Equipment Guide were some of my favorite books because I love to have odds and ends to throw into my backpack (which I try to make a Heward's Handy Haversack). At least I can still get a Mess Kit.
As far as tracking light, Darkvision extends to 60' to 300'+, depending on the source. A torch is only going to cast light in up to a 40' radius so that will never beat Darkvision. It will help in that first 40' though. If you are in Darkness, Darkvision will treat the area in range as Dim Light and Dim Light as Bright Light. A Bullseye Lantern extends further but isn't on the Fast Crafter list. That's easy to forget as well.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
A makeshift quarterstaff for a character that has been imprisoned with Woodcarver's Tools?
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
I really think it depends on exactly how you're playing it. It's not that the Bag of Holding makes Tinker's Magic useless. It's more of it's the entire playgroup handwaving it all away that does that. Even if you have a Bag of Holding, you would have to purchase the mundane equipment granted by Fast Crafter or Tinker's Magic and then you would have to track all that equipment individually. A lot of people forget to top up. But they want to just handwave it away. It's kinda like Quiver of Ehlonna. Is the DM counting how many arrows you have left? Really?
The basic encumbrance rules aren't particularly forgiving given than many characters tend to sideline Strength. A 12 Strength character can only carry 120 pounds and half that for Small characters. More "realistically," characters really shouldn't be able to hike that far very fast with more than 90 pounds. Traditional backpacking recommends only carrying about 30 pounds for hiking what would be easy trails so the optional 60 pounds limit for encumbrance in the optional rules for 12 Strength characters is really closer to real standards, though that is still firmly superheroic.
It's partially that the encumbrance rules are forgiving, but it's more that people generally just functionally give everyone Tinker's Magic, so it would make sense to give folks who take Fast Crafter or Tinker's Magic something else to compensate for the house rules.
I don't think the player should be expected to craft expectations for challenges and the game world. Strictly speaking, player characters shouldn't be able to cook anything without Cooking Utensils but telling players they're basically chewing biscuits and cold jerky on the regular like hobos doesn't really vibe with many tables. More appropriately, many things just aren't very possible without tools. It's hard enough to construct a functional lean-to quickly with Carpenter's Tools. Without those, that's basically impossible for anyone who doesn't have survival training. Most people wouldn't even know how to begin or what they're aiming for.
Tool and skill checks and challenges are built into the design of the encounter. Players can't design that. Player prompts are limited to minor effects like advantage or adding proficiency bonuses. That's not how that really works IRL. If you don't have proficiency with Smith's Tools, there is no way you'll be able to forge a functional sword, even if you know what a sword is. But that kind of check isn't normally called for in an encounter. That's not the fault of the player. And it's not like forging swords, building dams and houses, or making rings of power aren't well known fantasy challenges.
The main issue is that it requires the DM and the play group to say "NO" to "creative" narrative solutions that would never fly in the real world, which is what these tool proficiencies and mundane tools are supposed to facilitate. I'm not saying we should stop doing that, but if we are doing these things, then Artificers and Fast Crafters need to have more to compensate them for giving everyone else their schtick.
Also, note that a quarterstaff doesn't do anything for them as a focus. It specifically needs to be an Arcane/Druidic focus, which is a separate item that just happens to also function as a quarterstaff by virtue of being a large and presumably hefty length of wood or metal.