Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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The more you are handwaving, the less useful a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole, Quiver of Elhonna, and Heward's/Holly's Handy Haversack are. Fast Crafter and Tinker's Magic don't allow for ammo or rations so the common consumables are not covered other than oil (Tinker's Magic) and torches (both).
Not in 5e. In 2014, it was even defined as "Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that most characters don't usually have to worry about it."
In 2024, the formula hasn't changed. Small and Medium characters can both carry Strength x 15 pounds. If you "dump" Strength, you can carry 8 x 15 = 120 pounds. 120 pounds is the typical minimum carrying capacity. A 12 strength has a 180-pound carrying capacity, not 120, regardless of whether they are medium or small. Often, armor is the heaviest single contributor to your weight at 13 pounds for studded leather and 65 pounds for plate armor. Even if an Armorer Artificer dumped Strength and wore Plate for their Arcane Armor, they'd still have 55 pounds of carrying capacity left over.
Also, unlike in some previous editions, this is all or nothing. There are no levels of encumbrance. You are fine until you're not. See Carrying Capacity. Your average PC Wizard has, as you say, superhuman carrying capacity. Some species, like Centaurs and Goliaths can carry more. Carrying capacity rarely comes into play. I don't honestly check until there is a lot to carry. The standard character sheet doesn't even have an area to record carrying capacity. Do you remember when the standard sheet had ammo ticks and carrying capacity breakdowns?
I can't say you're wrong as a trend. I have personally never seen that to be the case.
That's part of the problem with 5e's approach to making tools useful. What exactly does the Survival skill do? It's going to cover foraging and preparing food. It's going to cover finding or preparing makeshift shelter. Where does that leave tools? They're not for survivalist experience. They generally represent a character who brought supplies. A chef who brought ingredients. A chef who can then make ... one rations after a day. Yay.
I can't think of any game I've played where overland wilderness travel didn't include someone with survival providing for the group. Goodberry or rations (often plus Prestidigitation) being reserved for extended dungeon delves and everything else being covered between the lifestyle expenses and a la carte in city purchases (cheese wedges and wheels are popular at my tables for some reason).
But how many tool checks are actually required? Very few. I require Thieves' Tools to open locks, but I think technically in 2024, you might need to have Thieves' Tools but not necessarily proficiency in them. It's a Sleight of Hand check and proficiency in Thieves' Tools can alternatively use that to apply your proficiency bonus. If you have both, you have advantage. (See Equipment Proficiencies). Encounters will have an ability check to do a thing and the player will have to decide to bare hand it or say, "I have a tool. Can I use that to help?" The DM can encourage the players by asking "how are you going to do it" or "do you have anything that would help?" I am not going to keep copies of everyone's equipment lists and say, "don't forget to include your proficiency bonus because of your [insert tool]."
To bring this back on topic a bit Fast Crafter only applies at the end of a long rest. You can't decide suddenly that you need a block and tackle to lift something heavy. Making Fast Crafter at the end of a short rest, even if it's still once per long rest, would help that.
Those aren't tool checks. You need proficiency with the tool to do these tasks, but it's they're not challenges either. Unlike in prior editions, there's no check with a risk of failure and no method to get the job done faster other adding an assistant. Add Bastions to that and it takes effort to make crafting as a PC rewarding.
I strongly disagree about a hard no on creative solutions. We aren't playing in the real world. We aren't typically playing ourselves in a fantasy environment. However, most importantly (for this thread), we have to consider the rules as they are written and intended. We can vary things at our individual tables. I encourage being open to it but recommend understanding RAW and RAI first. However, these forums are primarily for discussion of that RAW and RAI.
Fast Crafter and, to a lesser degree Tinker's Magic, are terrible features because of the game they exist in. As a DM, I should not have to house rule to make an official feat or class feature decent. It should just be useful within the game system and default assumptions they are presented within. These features are not. Tinker's Magic is not as bad as Fast Crafter for a number of reasons: it's not a choice so there is no opportunity cost; you get the item with a magic action so you can use it response to a need; the list is greater; and you can create more than one at a time/during a long rest*.
Technically Tinker's Magic and Fast Crafter items vanish after a long rest so you can extend the duration via sleep deprivation. I don't recommend sleep deprivation in the game and especially IRL.
Edit: Added to the carrying capacity section.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Shillelagh folks. Not just for clubs. LOL - but yes the woodcarving tools would also benefit the spellcaster later in the day when they can carve a new focus.
As was noted, if they're somehow imprisoned but have access to the tools and materials, sure. But while I could believe scenarios like this do play out from time to time, it's way too niche to really be a meaningful talking point for the perks of a tool prof.
So, primarily Druids who have been imprisoned with Woodcarving Tools (while not officially weapons, these would definitely involve blades and the argument for improvised Slashing or Piercing weapons would definitely apply). In a prison where a character is disarmed, their tools would be removed as well. Probably their armor and other possessions as well.
The Druid would just use Primal Savagery instead. If you have your choice of Cantrips (Pact of Tome Warlocks, Magic Initiate, Blessed Warrior, Druidic Warrior, etc), try to have a useful cantrip that doesn't have a material component requirement. I personally don't typically find my characters imprisoned and try to have Prestidigitation so that even my rations taste delish-delosh.
I know you really want Crafter to be good. However, I can't think of a worse origin feat. As I said, you might get some decent use out of it on a character focusing on poisons. We will probably see a dedicated poisoner origin feat that takes that niche in a future product. It's partly that Fast Crafter is a bad feature between the limited options and the fact that you have decide in advance rather than MacGyvering a way out of closet you found yourself locked in using paperclips and bubblegum.
It's partly that Discount is merchant-themed feature and not a crafting one. However, a lot of the issue is fundamental D&D itself. First, crafting items by players is discouraged. There are rules and they are better than 2014, but worse than earlier editions (I don't remember 4e, but definitely worse than 3.x). 2024 has rules but pushes crafting via Bastions more than helping players craft. Second, mundane items are relatively cheap by mid to late game. The only expensive consumable that Crafter helps with is poisons. In other cases, it's just going to be dead weight for mid to late game characters and that's bad design, regardless of whether you blame the feat or the game, the feat has to exist within the game.
Edit: Fixed Prestidigitation tooltip.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Okay, I've thought about this some more. You might have a point with the "locked in prison" part of what I said. Still, it doesn't mean the Crafter feat is worthless just because my one scenario would not make sense.
In my opinion, "Fastcrafting" modifies the existing crafting rules, requires raw materials, but speeds up the time required and lowers the output quality. I do not consider it a summon spell, so in my opinion the Mending spell ought to work on most of the items. The phrase "falls apart" in the feat to me does not suggest "poof" as much as "needs repair." So potentially in Tier 1, a "tinker" type of character with a chest on a wagon could create a bunch of low quality tools that simply require mending every day. This is not a gamebreaking thing, but is actually a great role playing piece. There are creative strategies that players can use with such "fall apart" items.
A rogue with Artisan and woodcarver tools could rescue a spellcaster out of a prison but not stick around to find his gear. Running off into the woods and spending the night in a tree, the rogue could then create a quarterstaff for the spellcaster to use Shillelagh with. You might say that a prisoner would be stripped of all their gear. However, out of pure negligence some woodcarving tools could be left somewhere in a compound out in the open. This is DM discretion and storytelling. It does not take much justify why woodcarving tools might be on a random table anywhere in the DND multi-verse . . . its a common item to make common things.
However, if you treat it like a "conjuration" that could work in an empty room without even a speck of dust in it . . . then I would also suggest that Fabricate could be used to exploit this Creatio Ex Nihilo event. Turn an iron pot into, say, polished steel ingot, horde it, and then Fabricate plate armor. Or even better, make a steel pot, fill it with coal and Fabricate a bucket of diamonds. Its literally the best application of Fabricate I can think of. You might say "you shouldn't need a 4th level spell to make a feat good." But I say, the feat makes the 4th level spell even better.
I think in the mid to end game, Crafter with its 20% discount can make certain spells more affordable. For instance:
4th Level Divination
Casting Time: 1 action
Range/Area: Self
Components: V, S, M(incense worth 25+ GP, which the spell consumes)
Duration: Instantaneous
Source: Player’s Handbook, pg. 264
Astral Projection:
9th Level Necromancy
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range/Area: 10ft.
Components: V, S, M(for each of the spell’s targets, one jacinth worth 1,000+ GP and one silver bar worth 100+ GP, all of which the spell consumes)
Duration: Until dispelled
Source: Player’s Handbook, pg. 243
Fast Crafting + Mending (to me) makes sense. It is not game breaking. What is bizarre to me is the idea of fast crafting items out of nothing without using magic. That is the bizarre thing, not using Mending to fix something.
I wouldn't say Crafter is worthless, just that it's mechanically worst of the currently available Origin Feats and misses the mark thematically.
Regardless of whether Fast Crafter is a modification of the crafting rules or not, falls apart absolutely means that you no longer have an item. It's not a broken item; it's not an item at all. At best you are looking at a return to the raw materials. There is nothing to repair. There is nothing for Mending to target. I recommend that either you rule that you must pay for the raw materials but get them back or you don't have to pay for raw materials but aren't losing anything when the item "poofs". There is no room a RAW/RAI interpretation where there is something to repair. This is clearly meant to make things temporarily and for you to have one of those temporary items at a time and that's it. If you want anything permanent, you have to go through the normal crafting process which the Crafter feat does not modify for permanent items.
That is some extreme finagling to make an Origin feat look good when a Tavern Brawler can just punch someone. It would be extremely rare to find Woodcarver's Tools outside of Woodcarver's work area. A prison is not typically a woodcarver's work area. You would find them in a guildhall, a woodcarver's home, or similar work areas. The fact that you are stretching so much to make the feat appealing should tell you all you all you need to know about the feat.
If you enjoy it. Take it. Use it.
Iron pots are not raw materials. No, the feat doesn't interact with Fabricate at all. Fast Crafter only produces items and never raw materials. Fabricate requires raw materials to produce objects. Fabricate doesn't help Crafter and Crafter doesn't help Fabricate.
Discount would help with spell material components. However:
It is clearly not intended. When it falls apart it is clearly not something Mending can fix. When it falls apart, it's not an object with a single break or tear and Mending can't help. It's not game breaking to allow it anyway. What is intended is jury-rigging objects temporarily and those objects are gone afterwards. If you want to have persistent items, you must craft them at the regular speed or buy them with your frequent shopper discount.
If you enjoy it. Take it. Use it. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a subpar feat. If it's objectively the worst Origin Feat printed, if you enjoy it, enjoy it.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
The big problem with crafter is its complete lack of scaling -- at level 1 it's pretty useful depending on how you interpret it, but it's a near nonentity after tier 1. Healer is a bit better, but is still going to fall off hard at higher levels (alert, lucky, and tough all have excellent level scaling; the others still have dropoff, but not to the point of "I can forget I even have it").
too be fair to the generous carrying capacity many items seem to be heavier in the ph than reality. My guess is a lot of gear is upped in weight for awkwardness.
Honestly fast crafter would have been better if it just said you do not round up the time it takes to craft an item for items under X cost. As the current rules are want to make a torch, one day minimum. Now I do not know of any DM that would hold you to that when making a torch in the field, but those are the rules and the DM might have something for more complex items than a torch about it being shoddy as you are rushing it if you don't have the fast caster feat. And then have some basic statement in the feat about if it can be completed during x time period it is considered light activity that will not disrupt your long rest. And then maybe have it speed up time in general like the time it takes to craft an item is halved for you so it would retain usefulness as you advance.
I think that Crafter is a very build-specific origin feat that can be optimized by experienced and knowledgeable players. To use a similar situation, I think that a Sorceror is harder to play well than a Wizard because it requires you to make some specific choices that can make or break the build, whereas a wizard can simply buy more spell scrolls.
One of your frequent claims is that Fast Crafter can work without raw materials and that it after 24 hours the item completely disappears. However, if you look at the language of Tinker's Magic you find some much more specific language about that.
As a Magic action while holding Tinker’s Tools, you can create one item in an unoccupied space within 5 feet of yourself, choosing the item from the following list: (not posting the list) . . . The item lasts until you finish a Long Rest, at which point it vanishes.You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest.
Here the ability opens with the word "Magic Action" and includes the specific language "at which point it vanishes." It is also not once a day but at-will, based on the intelligence modifier, and is class specific. What's more, it uses the word "create" instead of "craft." Creation is from the ether. Craft is from raw materials. These skills are similar, but not the same. Their effects are similar, but not the same.
To use the example of a Quarterstaff or Club, which are not available for Tinker Magic, a crafter with woodcarving tools would normally need tools, raw materials, and time. Here are the rules again for reference:
Crafting Nonmagical Items
To craft a nonmagical item, you need tools, raw materials, and time, each of which is detailed below. If you meet the requirements, you make the item, and you can use it or sell it at its normal price.
Tools
This chapter’s “Tools” section lists which tools are required to make certain items. The DM assigns required tools for items not listed there.
You must use the required tool to make an item and have proficiency with that tool. Anyone who helps you must also have proficiency with it.
Raw Materials
To make an item, you need raw materials worth half its purchase cost (round down). For example, you need 750 GP of raw materials to make Plate Armor, which sells for 1,500 GP. The DM determines whether appropriate raw materials are available.
Time
To determine how many days (working 8 hours a day) it takes to make an item, divide its purchase cost in GP by 10 (round a fraction up to a day). For example, you need 5 days to make a Heavy Crossbow, which sells for 50 GP.
If an item requires multiple days, the days needn’t be consecutive.
Characters can combine their efforts to shorten the crafting time. Divide the time needed to create an item by the number of characters working on it. Normally, only one other character can assist you, but the DM might allow more assistants.
Here is the language of Fast Crafting, for reference:
Fast Crafting. When you finish a Long Rest, you can craft one piece of gear from the Fast Crafting table, provided you have the Artisan’s Tools associated with that item and have proficiency with those tools. The item lasts until you finish another Long Rest, at which point the item falls apart.
Within the "Time" rules of crafting there is the language where you have to "round up" for items that result in a fraction of a day. Fast Crafting language gets rid of this "round up" and lets you simply do it very fast first thing in the morning. But the tradeoff is an item that "falls apart" after 24 hours, because of the rush in which it was made. The language "falls apart" is different than the language used in Tinker Tolls, which uses the word "vanish."
You might make the case for RAI "poof after 24 hours" if you are a Wizards of the Coast D&D game developer or can quote one. But RAW, it is pretty clear to me: the item is broken after 24 hours. RAW, a broken item can be repaired by the Mending spell. Mending can repair larger items with repeated castings. That is the entire point of Mending.
One of the worst parts of the Crafting rules is how almost completely and utterly useless they are on Day 1 of play. Except, if you do a "cash gold" start the 20% discount when you only have 100 GP or whatever is pretty nice. But with Crafter, things speed up. Your life as a crafter begins immediately. And with the Mending spell, you can slowly build up an entire toolkit. You might even be able to sell them - though with consequences. Your 20% discount also makes crafting tools themselves cheaper to buy. Each crafting tool has "Utilize" features that are useful. Just look at this for Cobbler's Tools for instance:
Cobbler’s Tools (5 GP)
Ability: Dexterity Weight: 5 lb.
Utilize: Modify footwear to give Advantage on the wearer’s next Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (DC 10)
Craft: Climber’s Kit
or what about:
Carpenter’s Tools (8 GP)
Ability: Strength Weight: 6 lb.
Utilize: Seal or pry open a door or container (DC 20)
Craft: Club, Greatclub, Quarterstaff, Barrel, Chest, Ladder, Pole, Portable Ram, Torch
- - -
As far as "useless" feats are concerned, I don't think Crafter is mechanically useless. The majority of D&D is spent outside of combat. In Tier 1 it makes things cheaper when cash is on short supply, and allows you to fast craft items in a pinch. At higher levels, it dramatically reduced the price of spells that consume materials, or that require expensive components. It makes spells like Fabricate more effective. But in particular, the Artisan feat allows you to take 4 Tools at level 1 without sacrifcing any ASI points. Most builds need a hybrid feat at Level 4 and then probably 2 attribute points to bring up their primary up to 20 at the next one. Level 1 is a unique place in D&D because you get an Background Origin feat without having to sacrifice an attribute point.
For Strength based characters, the default backgrounds are: Artisan, Entertainer, Farmer, Guard, Noble, Sailor, Soldier. The feats they get you are: Crafter, Musician, Tough, Alert, Skilled, Tavern Brawler, and Savage Attacker. Of these, in my opinion, Tavern Brawler is the worst. Savage Attacker is the second worst . . . it is like using Booming Blade at Tier 1 and cutting it in half, maybe. I think that you might make the case that Crafter is worse than the rest, unless you are specifically building a crafting character.
For Dexterity based characters, the default backgrounds are: Artisan, Charlatan, Criminal, Entertainer, Guide, Sailor, Scribe, Soldier, and Wayfarer. The feats they give you are Crafter, Skilled, Alert, Musician, Magic Initiate Druid, Tavern Brawler, Skilled (again), Savage Attacker, and Lucky. I think that Tavern Brawler and Savage Attacker are both worse feats, because if you are playing a rogue you are going to be fighting with a finesse weapon with sneak attack. If you are playing a ranged fighter or ranger or something, tavern brawler is still horrible. Monks, the only class designed for unarmed fighting, also don't benefit from Tavern Brawler really. Tavern Brawler is the worst feat for dex characters, and savage attacker is a close 2nd worst. It really depends on the character you are playing, but Alert is almost completely worthless for rogues who are often scouting alone and have nobody to swap initiative with. Plus rogues already get an impressive number of skills and sure, you might say skilled is better if you are building a skill monkey. But if you are building a crafter type character, I think Artisan is the top choice.
For Intelligence based characters like wizards and artificers, I think there is a very strong case against Artisan as a background feat, simply because most people want either Alert or magic initiate with these builds. However, if you specifically plan to exploit Fabricate in order to craft items instantaneously . . . then that 20% discount is raw untamed capitalism. You typcally can sell items for 50% of their retail value. and that 20% creates a profit margin. And then you can afford to buy all of the loot in the game. A DM might make the case that they can simply add more gold to treasure hordes in order to prevent the -20% tedious calculations. But its calculator work. Not that big of a deal. If you don't see how getting to buy every magic item in the magic shop after a few weeks is not a huge boon for wizards, you must not play that much D&D at higher levels.
Consider these staffs of power that wizards might buy with the money they made from Crafter + Fabricate:
STAFF OF THE MAGI
This staff has 50 charges and can be wielded as a magic Quarterstaff that grants a +2 bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls made with it. While you hold it, you gain a +2 bonus to spell attack rolls.
Spell Absorption. While holding the staff , you have Advantage on saving throws against spells. In addition, you can take a Reaction when another creature casts a spell that targets only you. If you do, the staff absorbs the magic of the spell, canceling its effect and gaining a number of charges equal to the absorbed spell’s level. However, if doing so brings the staff’s total number of charges above 50, the staff explodes as if you activated its Retributive Strike (see below).
Spells. While holding the staff, you can cast one of the spells on the following table from it, using your spell save DC. The table indicates how many charges you must expend to cast the spell.
Regaining Charges. The staff regains 4d6 + 2 expended charges daily at dawn. If you expend the last charge, roll 1d20. On a 20, the staff regains 1d12 + 1 charges.
Retributive Strike. You can take a Magic action to break the staff over your knee or against a solid surface. The staff is destroyed and releases its magic in an explosion that fills a 30-foot Emanation originating from itself. You have a 50 percent chance to instantly travel to a random plane of existence, avoiding the explosion. If you fail to avoid the effect, you take Force damage equal to 16 times the number of charges in the staff. Each other creature in the area makes a DC 17 Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes Force damage equal to 6 times the number of charges in the staff. On a successful save, a creature takes half as much damage.
Notes: Bonus: Magic, Bonus: Spell Attacks, Advantage: Saving Throws, Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard
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STAFF OF THUNDER AND LIGHTNING
This staff can be wielded as a magic Quarterstaff that grants a +2 bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls made with it. It also has the following additional properties. Once one of these properties is used, it can’t be used again until the next dawn.
Lightning. When you hit with a melee attack using the staff, you can cause the target to take an extra 2d6 Lightning damage (no action required).
Thunder. When you hit with a melee attack using the staff, you can cause the staff to emit a crack of thunder audible out to 300 feet (no action required). The target you hit must succeed on a DC 17 Constitution saving throw or have the Stunned condition until the end of your next turn.
Thunder and Lightning. Immediately after you hit with a melee attack using the staff, you can take a Bonus Action to use the Lightning and Thunder properties (see above) at the same time. Doing so doesn’t expend the daily use of those properties, only the use of this one.
Lightning Strike. You can take a Magic action to cause a bolt of lightning to leap from the staff’s tip in a Line that is 5 feet wide and 120 feet long. Each creature in that Line makes a DC 17 Dexterity saving throw, taking 9d6 Lightning damage on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one.
Thunderclap. You can take a Magic action to cause the staff to produce a thunderclap audible out to 600 feet. Every creature within a 60-foot Emanation originating from you makes a DC 17 Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 2d6 Thunder damage and has the Deafened condition for 1 minute. On a successful save, a creature takes half as much damage only.
Notes: Bonus: Magic, Damage: Lightning, Damage: Lightning, Damage: Thunder
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Artisan is not only not useless, it might be the best feat in the game for high IQ players in a long term campaign that will at least reach level 7 or 8.
I recommend either the second interpretation or modifying the first interpretation to return the raw materials. It never says that the raw materials are returned so using the first interpretation makes the feat worse without modifying it to return the raw materials.
Either way, no matter what, Mending cannot turn the object into a permanent item. RAW and RAI, the item is gone. Never does it say the object is broken or breaks. It's gone and it's not coming back. There is nothing for Mending to target.
Fabricate does not interact with Fast Crafter at all. Both take raw materials and turn them into objects that are not raw materials.
Crafter is not useless, it's just bad.
Tavern Brawler is amazing if you are building around grappling or unarmed combat. Savage Attacker is consistently decent, particularly if you can increase the damage dice on a weapon. Vicious 2-handed weapon Weapons can be quite nasty. Musician gives Heroic Inspiration to multiple allies multiple times per day. Tough gives scaling hit points. Alert is always amazing. There is always a better origin feat than Crafter.
Crafter doesn't scale in usefulness with level. Crafter gives you tool proficiencies you could have picked up with Skilled (and you could have mixed and matched skills with tools). Crafter gives you an extremely circumstantial, once a day "fast crafter" ability. Crafter gives a discount and the nature of that discount and the default D&D game is why it doesn't scale with level. It is objectively a poor feat and for the concept of crafting, it provides tool proficiencies and that's it. Fast Crafter doesn't feel like crafting because the item is explicitly not permanent. Discount is a shopping ability, not a crafting one.
If you want tool proficiencies, just craft or buy a Manifold Tool (Forge of the Artificer) or an All-Purpose Tool (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything). The All-purpose tool requires attunement by an Artificer but the Manifold Tool can be attuned by anyone. In both cases, the items can turn into any artisan's tool and you are proficient in that tool while attuned. One Common Magic Item or one Uncommon to Very Rare Magic Item (the All-Purpose Tool has a +1 to +3 version), mostly invalidates the need for early to late game tool proficiency.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Respectfully, I believe you are reading into the text the word “gone.” The text says ”falls apart.” This means there are parts. Mending can specifically mend two parts of an item, fix a tear, etc. The nature of “falls apart” might differ based on the item. Nowhere does it say “gone.” The Artificer Tinker Tools ability specifically says “vanish.” That is “gone.” The phrase “falls apart” means “parts.” Mending should work depending on the item. It is not created with magic and does not disappear magically. Like the Fabricate skill it might use raw materials from the environment or from a store purchase. Zero interpretations of Fast Crafter mean it comes from nothing and returns to nothing.
For me the debate is not any more about IF there is an interaction between fast crafting and mending, but HOW it interacts. Falls apart means parts, craft means raw materials.
To extend the conversation, if I fast craft a rope, cut it with a knife, could I mend it with mending? Of course. If I cut the fast craft rope into 10 parts, then cast mending, would the magic of mending make it permanent? Maybe not. But would “falls apart” effect return raw hemp, or simply a snapped rope? When I think of how rope is made, I think of it unraveling. Could mending fix a normal rope that unraveled? I would think so, maybe.
You might make an RAI case for your interpretation if you can quote a WotC employee. But RAW I think it can be read multiple ways. If I am the DM, RAW, mending repairs fast craft items. But materials are required unlike the Artificer magic action that does not.
The debate for me is whether or not mending makes a fast craft item permanent. I think that is where the real debate is. I think caltrops would be an exception, but I think most other things COULD become permanent via magic mending. The fact that they include mending by default with artificers makes me think this is actually the real RAI. It is not game breaking.
I do not think Fabricate interacts with fast crafting in my interpretation that fast crafting is crafting. I think it interacts with the 20% off discount.
And by the way, to say that Crafter does not scale while completely skipping my Crafter + Fabricate = Gold Mine demonstration just shows you aren’t really thinking it through. There is nothing in origin feats that is more overpowered than Crafter + Fabricate with the right build, which I have a few versions of in mind.
For instance, Wizard 7 with Artisan unlocks this. Lore Bard with 2 levels of warlock can access this. Artificer 3 + Elf + Artisan + Wizard 7 might be fully optimized for this. Raw materials are the big limitation because it is DM discretion. I am showing you this just to explain where my thinking is at. The 20% discount is essential and scales to level 20. You will never not benefit.
No. It does not mean that there any useful parts. In order for there to be a broken object to fix, it needs to say that it is broken. There is zero basis for the object existing in a repairable state. If Fast Crafter does not explicitly state the words "breaks" or "tears", Mending can't help. Even if it says that the object is broken, Mending might not be able to help depending on the break/tear. It needs to use that language, not an English word that means a similar thing.
It IS a basis for saying that IF Fast Crafter operates within the crafting rules, the raw materials are returned. However, then you have raw materials and not a broken object. Mending still doesn't help. Fast Crafter will never help you create permanent items.
That's not how RAI or RAW works. If there are multiple, valid interpretations of RAW, choosing one would be one thing. If you are the DM and you don't agree with RAW or RAI, you can house rule it differently and that's totally different, but this is a forum for RAW, not house rules.
Additionally, RAI can be established using multiple methods, one of them can be quoting a WotC employee. This would have likely been Jeremy Crawford, who left the company shortly after the 2024 5e release and no one has taken up the Sage Advice mantle. However, it can also be established by other methods, such as design patterns and evaluating the impact of one interpretation over another.
If you use Fast Crafter to create Tent and it gets a tear, you can use Mending to fix the tear. After you complete a long rest, the Tent still falls apart. Aside from that, they do not interact. Before you create the object and after you complete a long rest, there is no object for Mending to target.
Is unraveling a "break" or "tear"? No. Mending can't help. You can mend the rope until it falls apart, after which time you don't have rope. You don't have intact rope. You don't have broken or torn rope.
No. There is no free item exploit here. It doesn't work. In order to make it work, you have to do a lot of substituting the written rules with synonym until you've twisted the wording to your liking. No. It is not RAW and not RAI.
Whether raw materials are a non-magical item and affected by Discount is debatable. I'd be interested in a separate thread on the matter.
No. It does not scale past the early game. Mid to late game, you are not cash strapped with the default D&D game.
This is not a feature that you alone have understood. You are ignoring how the rules to make this work. You are ignoring the actual game to make a feat look better than it is.
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I think that the 20% discount plus Fabricate makes Crafter the most powerful origin feat in the game.
To my knowledge, Mending can fix an item that is broken into pieces. The rules do not say that the item completely disappears or is unrepairable. It just says it falls apart. I think of a tent I assemble falling apart, or two sticks I duct tape together breaking apart. This is not a disentigration situation where it just turns into dust.
The bizarre part of this entire conversation is you stated earlier that Fast Crafting works "in an empty room without even a speck of dust." From that I gather you think of this like a magic action from the confuration school.
In fact, I think you are subconsciously thinking about the Conjuration Wizard's special ability from the 2014 rules:
Minor Conjuration
Starting at 2nd level when you select this school, you can use your action to conjure up an inanimate object in your hand or on the ground in an unoccupied space that you can see within 10 feet of you. This object can be no larger than 3 feet on a side and weigh no more than 10 pounds, and its form must be that of a nonmagical object that you have seen. The object is visibly magical, radiating dim light out to 5 feet.
The object disappears after 1 hour, when you use this feature again, or if it takes or deals any damage.
The Tinker's Magic for Artificers is actually closer to this than Fast Crafting.
I also think that you might be thinking of this special for Rock Gnomes:
Rock Gnome. You know the Mending and Prestidigitation cantrips. In addition, you can spend 10 minutes casting Prestidigitation to create a Tiny clockwork device (AC 5, 1 HP), such as a toy, fire starter, or music box. When you create the device, you determine its function by choosing one effect from Prestidigitation; the device produces that effect whenever you or another creature takes a Bonus Action to activate it with a touch. If the chosen effect has options within it, you choose one of those options for the device when you create it. For example, if you choose the spell’s ignite-extinguish effect, you determine whether the device ignites or extinguishes fire; the device doesn’t do both. You can have three such devices in existence at a time, and each falls apart 8 hours after its creation or when you dismantle it with a touch as a Utilize action.
But this Rock Gnome ability is the result of a magic action. They use the word "Create." So it might follow that this is a magical creation, but that the remains of these devices leave behind some broken parts.
I'm going to really irritate you and suggest that, to be logically consistent, I have to rule that the Mending spell can fix one of these devices. However, the magic of them says that I can only have three of them active at a time so at best a 6 second cast of Mending (1 action) speeds up the 10 minutes needed to cast prestidigitation. While a ridiculous level of tediousness, it might make sense for this to occur in the middle of combat if I am using it as a fire starter or something.
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It's been fun.
Yes, I still think you guys are all reading it wrong because you like to hate things. But at the very least, we agree that the feat is poorly worded. It should be labelled "Enterprising" or something similar, and really emphasize the business angle.
BTW, when I Google the question "Does mending fix fast craft items" it just pulls up this thread on D&D Beyond and the AI in Google summarizes the argument you made on page one. This is how stupid AI is. We need to actually think things through and not trust the internet so much. Wow.
It doesn't.
It doesn't matter what falls apart means other than it's not broken or torn. The object is gone. If you had to provide raw materials and get the raw materials back, you can now craft a permanent item with those materials or craft another temporary item.
That's a technicality of the interpretation that you do not have to pay for raw materials. If a DM is using that interpretation, I do not expect that actual scenario to actually be allowed.
Nope.
Nope.
You've fixated on a technical result of my interpretation of RAI. I've acknowledged the validity of your interpretation that it is within the crafting system. It has already been stated how that interpretation makes the feat worse. Note that I am noting my interpretation as "Rules As Intended". I am not thinking of any other feature and have referred back to the exact text of Crafter and Fast Crafter many times during this thread, sometimes multiple times during a single reply.
It doesn't matter that Rock Gnome uses "create" or not. The object lasts until it falls apart after 8 hours or you dismantle it. Just like Fast Crafter, the object is gone and Mending can't fix it.
As a DM, do what you want. I don't care. It's not RAW or RAI, but you don't have to follow RAW at your table. Follow, as the Sage Advice puts it, RAF (Rules As Fun). As a player, you will be subject to your DM. For starting fires, just carry a tinderbox. Anything with exposed fuel is a Bonus Action to light.
Nobody hates things. Maybe WotC hates crafting. That is debatable. I want a crafting feat/background that is good and makes sense to take on a crafter. Artisan and Crafter aren't it. There may be ways to fix it, but that's not a discussion for the Rules & Game Mechanics forum. That would be Homebrew & House Rules. I would take MyDudeicus's suggestion and apply to all crafting and have Fast Crafter increase the amount you divide the GP cost of an item by to determine the craft time, for mundane and magic items. With the Artificer recently losing the GP reduction for magic item crafting, I would probably have Discount apply to raw materials used while crafting. And finally, duplicate Fast Crafter and rename it but allow it to be used after a Long or Short Rest but the item still lasts until you finish a Long Rest. That would be my starting place for a fix but, that's a Homebrew & House Rules discussion.
That's search engine indexing and has been common for a decade or more. The AI just summarizes based on the search results. If there is only one search result, the AI summary will be limited. I rarely read the AI summaries, but if I do, it's just to grab the link at the bottom of the summary and read the websites the summary is based upon.
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If Fast Crafting requires raw materials, and then falls apart, there are really only two options:
A) Raw materials are left behind
B) A broken item in 2+ parts is left behind.
I think that in the absence of RAW and RAI from WotC here, we are forced to this:
House Rules
House rules are new or modified rules you add to your game to make it your own and to enhance the style you have in mind for your game. Before you establish a house rule, ask yourself two questions:
If you’re confident that the answer to both questions is yes, give the new rule a try. Present house rules as experiments, and ask your players to provide feedback on them. If you introduce a house rule that isn’t fun, remove or revise the rule.
Recording Rules Interpretations
If a question about the interpretation of a rule comes up in your game, record how you decide to interpret it. Add that to your collection of house rules so you and the players can reference it when the rule comes up again later.
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And we are forced to acknowledge this ultimately:
THE RULE OF FUN
D&D is a game, and everyone should have fun playing it. Everyone shares equal responsibility in moving the game along, and everyone contributes to the fun when they treat each other with respect and consideration: talking through disagreements among players or their characters, and remembering that arguments or mean-spirited squabbles can get in the way of the fun.
People have many different ideas about what makes D&D fun. The “right way” to play D&D is the way you and your players agree to and enjoy. If everyone comes to the table prepared to contribute to the game, the entire table is likely to have a wonderful and memorable time.
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From the developers, D&D was meant to be fun. That is the ultimate RAI. You may have called it RAF.
This topic is clearly dubious and unsettled and requires DMs to formulate a House Rule. Our week long debate about that proves that there is no clear RAW because “falls apart” is not followed by “into X”. You make a House Rule (into nothing) or (raw materials) but that is not RAW.
In my opinion, Mending + Fast Crafting with raw materials required is both logical and fun. I suppose I am inserting the assumption that it is a broken item rather than raw materials.
In my opinion, Fast Crafting without raw materials might be fun but it is illogical. But I can see why you would not want raw materials conjured from thin air.
RAW it is dubious.
RAI mending broken fast craft things is fun per the “D&D is fun” rule.
I think logical consistency is also important, so I think there are two solid interpretations that can be RAW:
Either no raw materials are required and the item vanishes, OR, Raw materials are required and something remains.
This is one of those little dead ends they will possibly resolve someday. But maybe they will leave it to DM’s interpretation.
I am okay ruling this as a House Rule and admitting that another DM might read it different. But I am pretty confident I could convince just about any player to agree with my interpretation, as opposed to the “magic crafting that is not magical” approach of the “conjure>next morning>poof” reading of the rules.
No, a broken item is not left behind and the default reading is that the item is gone. In order for it to be broken, it would have to use the words "broken" or "breaks". If it does not, it is not broken. If Fast Crafter requires raw materials, you expend gold to craft a temporary item and do not get the raw materials back when it falls apart. You are left empty handed with no object and no raw materials. This is a terrible implementation which is why I think RAI is that you are not expected to pay for raw materials.
It is not logical, but you do you at your table.
It represents jury-rigging an item from scrap and found objects rather than paying the standard cost to craft an item and not getting to keep it. Since that interpretation has no defined requirements for materials, it is technically something from nothing and back to nothing. That going to be more fun than something from GP resources and back to nothing.
Fast Crafter should give you permanent items faster, but it doesn't. It just gives you one temporary item per day. That's it.
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My houserulings.
You’ve succeeded in convincing me to house rule it. Lol.
I hope it is something you enjoy. :D
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
After debating the raw materials issue in the other thread, I wanted to continue this perhaps.
This is the RAW/RAI debate for this.
1) Fast Crafting either uses raw materials or it does not (2 views).
2) Raw materials are either nebulous abstractions or something real that can be handled (2+ views)
3) The phrase “falls apart” either means the item is gone forever and leaves no trace, it breaks down into raw materials, or it becomes a broken item (3 basic views)
4) Mending can fix a broken item, but it cannot craft an item from raw materials, and it certainly cannot conjure an item. (we probably all agree on this).
5) Fast Crafting is different from Tinker’s Magic because one is crafting rules based and the other is a magic action, so one DM might require raw materials for Fast Crafting but not Tinker’s Magic.
6) The phrase “falls apart” could mean the same thing for both Fast Crafting and **Rock Gnome’s prestidigitation devices** in any broad interpretation. I think that Fast Crafted items and Rock Gnome’s items could be repaired by the mending spell, possibly…… possibly. But if we saw that they leave behind raw materials then this creates a creatio ex nihilo problem with Rock Gnome’s feature. And basically this is the next big debate:
WHAT DOES FALLS APART MEAN IN D&D????
This is where the debate currently stands, and is probably where it begins. How a DM answers this question determines both Fast Crafting and Tinker’s Magic outcomes.