The main difference I see between Gentle Repose and Snare (or some of the spells mentioned by Plaguescarred) is that the material components are not mentioned in the former spell's effect, but they are in the latter.
We know that the components of a spell are requirements that must be met to cast it, and they come before the spell's effect. That's why I think that if we use a Spellcasting Focus, the spell's effect for Gentle Repose is not affected, since the spell never says you have to use the copper pieces.
Regarding Cordon of Arrows, given that it specifically tags the items in Beyond, you’re really stretching RAW as well as RAI to say that a Component Pouch or Focus will spontaneously produce them.
I didn't read this answer before posting, but I agree Cordon of Arrows is different for the same reason I was commenting. In this case, the components are mentioned and used in the spell's effect.
There seems to be some imprecise language/vague questions being asked, mainly revolving around what "cost" means when referring to spell components. It seems the game meaning and the colloquial meaning are being used interchangeably and that's causing the issue.
Does the spell Snare have a material component with a cost (rules language)? No, because a cost is not specified in the spells description and that's what matters:
A Material component is a particular material used in a spell’s casting, as specified in parentheses in the Components entry. These materials aren’t consumed by the spell unless the spell’s description states otherwise. The spellcaster must have a hand free to access them, but it can be the same hand used to perform Somatic components, if any.
If a spell doesn’t consume its materials and doesn’t specify a cost for them, a spellcaster can use a Component Pouch (see “Equipment”) instead of providing the materials specified in the spell, or the spellcaster can substitute a Spellcasting Focus if the caster has a feature that allows that substitution. To use a Component Pouch, you must have a hand free to reach into it, and to use a Spellcasting Focus, you must hold it unless its description says otherwise (see “Equipment” for descriptions).
Cost for the purpose of game rules, specifically the interaction with component pouches or spellcasting focuses, is a value amount specified in the spells description in terms of CP, SP, EP, GP, or PP (usually GP). An example of which is the spell revivify which says:
(a diamond worth 300+ GP, which the spell consumes)
The colloquial confusion seems to come from people asserting that if a component could/should/might cost (colloquial) something, or would otherwise have implied value, the component has a cost. This is not how the cost requirement works as a cost must be stated in the spells description.
An interesting point was made about gentle repose, quoting myself. The old wording was:
- (a pinch of salt and one copper piece placed on each of the corpse's eyes, which must remain there for the duration)
Which differs from the 2024 wording:
* - (2 Copper Pieces, which the spell consumes)
Given the 2024 wording uses capitalized "Copper Pieces", it's referring to the specific game item of currency so that would (IMO) count as a costed component. However the 2014 version is ambiguous because 2014 rules did not leverage capitalization for rules clarity. I would assume (based on the 2024 wording change) the intent of the 2014 spells is for it to be a costed component, but the wording makes it ambiguous.
There seems to be some imprecise language/vague questions being asked, mainly revolving around what "cost" means when referring to spell components. It seems the game meaning and the colloquial meaning are being used interchangeably and that's causing the issue.
Does the spell Snare have a material component with a cost (rules language)? No, because a cost is not specified in the spells description and that's what matters:
Well, let me ask a different way that is maybe better for the intent of my original question.
If am generating a character with the Snare spell prepared, what do I need to do to make sure I can actually cast the spell? I have generated my character but not picked any equipment yet, can I cast Snare?
This is definitely one of those times where they missed an interaction when they updated something- in 2014 there were two kinds of rope, both listed in 50 ft increments. Ergo no fixed price for Snare, so there was no weirdness about using either type of rope. They consolidated this into a single Rope item of no specific length in 2024, but apparently failed to catch that they’d need to amend Snare now that we don’t have a fixed cost relative to length.
This is definitely one of those times where they missed an interaction when they updated something- in 2014 there were two kinds of rope, both listed in 50 ft increments. Ergo no fixed price for Snare, so there was no weirdness about using either type of rope. They consolidated this into a single Rope item of no specific length in 2024, but apparently failed to catch that they’d need to amend Snare now that we don’t have a fixed cost relative to length.
Why does snare need an amendment? How is it any different from any other non-costed, consumed component with a vague description? You don't need to know how much rope costs per foot to supply 25 feet of rope, you just need aforementioned length of chord.
This is definitely one of those times where they missed an interaction when they updated something- in 2014 there were two kinds of rope, both listed in 50 ft increments. Ergo no fixed price for Snare, so there was no weirdness about using either type of rope. They consolidated this into a single Rope item of no specific length in 2024, but apparently failed to catch that they’d need to amend Snare now that we don’t have a fixed cost relative to length.
Why does snare need an amendment? How is it any different from any other non-costed, consumed component with a vague description? You don't need to know how much rope costs per foot to supply 25 feet of rope, you just need aforementioned length of chord.
I am sorry. I am still getting your position. Do I have to pay 1 GP in order to have an unspecified amount of rope that I can potentially subdivide into material components or is it like freshly gathered berries and it's just a thing I have? Do I have to buy rope to cast Snare and do I have to buy mistletoe to cast Druid Grove?
This is definitely one of those times where they missed an interaction when they updated something- in 2014 there were two kinds of rope, both listed in 50 ft increments. Ergo no fixed price for Snare, so there was no weirdness about using either type of rope. They consolidated this into a single Rope item of no specific length in 2024, but apparently failed to catch that they’d need to amend Snare now that we don’t have a fixed cost relative to length.
This is definitely one of those times where they missed an interaction when they updated something- in 2014 there were two kinds of rope, both listed in 50 ft increments. Ergo no fixed price for Snare, so there was no weirdness about using either type of rope. They consolidated this into a single Rope item of no specific length in 2024, but apparently failed to catch that they’d need to amend Snare now that we don’t have a fixed cost relative to length.
Why does snare need an amendment? How is it any different from any other non-costed, consumed component with a vague description? You don't need to know how much rope costs per foot to supply 25 feet of rope, you just need aforementioned length of chord.
I am sorry. I am still getting your position. Do I have to pay 1 GP in order to have an unspecified amount of rope that I can potentially subdivide into material components or is it like freshly gathered berries and it's just a thing I have? Do I have to buy rope to cast Snare and do I have to buy mistletoe to cast Druid Grove?
You need to acquire a rope of at least 25 feet in length. That's it. I'm not sure why you're overcomplicating things. The amount and cost will be specified by your DM.
Not sure why Druid Grove has been brought into this, but you could either harvest it yourself assuming you own a golden sickle, or buy it off someone who's done the appropriate harvesting. Again something your DM will relay.
I am sorry. I am still getting your position. Do I have to pay 1 GP in order to have an unspecified amount of rope that I can potentially subdivide into material components or is it like freshly gathered berries and it's just a thing I have? Do I have to buy rope to cast Snare and do I have to buy mistletoe to cast Druid Grove?
You need to acquire a rope of at least 25 feet in length. That's it. I'm not sure why you're overcomplicating things. The amount and cost will be specified by your DM.
Not sure why Druid Grove has been brought into this, but you could either harvest it yourself assuming you own a golden sickle, or buy it off someone who's done the appropriate harvesting. Again something your DM will relay.
It's something that came up in another discussion. As the DM, I am asking for the consensus on RAW/RAI. It's kind of the specific purpose of this forum. "Ask the DM" is a pointless deflection of the question.
Druid Grove is also a consumed material component. There has to be a consistent way to say for both spells that I can now cast them. Do these components have a RAW/RAI cost? If so, what is the cost of the mistletoe? What is the cost of the 25 feet of rope?
I can decide whatever I want on game night, but I'm not asking what I should do.
Rations aren't for a day anymore? Technically, they're for 2 days for most characters. Why, TarodNet? Why? It makes sense but they should have called out that Malnutrition listed the amount of rations needed. I may cut the cost and weight to default back to 1 day's rations.
You're grossly misunderstanding when I say "Ask the DM" and it's not a pointless deflection. It's the whole point.
The rules don't tell you what plants are in a given area, or what stock a merchant has, or if they'll offer you a discount, or if their goods are legit. If you have a spell that requires 25 feet of rope that is consumed, you need to ask your DM "where could I acquire 25 feet of rope"—you know, the whole roleplaying part of the game—and once they've given you an answer to that question, if it must be purchased you then ask the DM "Okay, how much does the merchant charge for it?"
The consistent way to say if you can cast the spells is by looking at your inventory sheet and checking if you have the required, consumed components. If you don't, you must engage in the process of playing the game in order to acquire those components. Maybe you need to commission a goldsmith to craft you a gold sickle, then wait until the full moon, and then harvest your own resources. Alternatively maybe you seek out a druid who has an excess supply and barter with them. Your DM would decide the cost in the exact same way they would decide the cost of anything else not explicitly listed in the Player's Handbook.
There is no RAW answer for "How do I acquire goods and services in D&D?" beyond "Play D&D"
There has to be a consistent way to say for both spells that I can now cast them.
There is. If you have the component (and the spell and the spell slot) then you can cast the spell.
The procedure to answer the question, "Do I have 25ft of rope?", is no different if you want to cast Snare than it is if you want to climb a mountain. How you have acquired the rope is something you and your DM will have to sort in-game.
You're grossly misunderstanding when I say "Ask the DM" and it's not a pointless deflection. It's the whole point.
Again, as the DM, you're grossly misunderstanding the point of the thread. If you don't know what the RAW answer is or are uncomfortable with committing to an opinion, that's fine.
Does Snare's Material Component have a cost? If so, what is the cost expressed in Copper Pieces, Silver Pieces, or Gold Pieces, as you prefer.
There has to be a consistent way to say for both spells that I can now cast them.
There is. If you have the component (and the spell and the spell slot) then you can cast the spell.
The procedure to answer the question, "Do I have 25ft of rope?", is no different if you want to cast Snare than it is if you want to climb a mountain. How you have acquired the rope is something you and your DM will have to sort in-game.
Ask the DM is an invalid answer. The DM cannot ask the DM's DM. It is not a pressing question for a current game, but I still want to know the RAW answer.
What is the RAW cost to add the material component to a character's sheet? Or does it not have a cost?
You're grossly misunderstanding when I say "Ask the DM" and it's not a pointless deflection. It's the whole point.
Again, as the DM, you're grossly misunderstanding the point of the thread. If you don't know what the RAW answer is or are uncomfortable with committing to an opinion, that's fine.
Does Snare's Material Component have a cost? If so, what is the cost expressed in Copper Pieces, Silver Pieces, or Gold Pieces, as you prefer.
25 feet of rope in most markets might be 5 sp. Some places will charge you 5 times that much.
OR if you have the Crafter Feat you get a 20% discount.
OR you could use the Crafter Feat and make your own rope.
But you still need nope.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Unfortunately, there is no RAW answer to this. Does "figure it out with your DM/ad lib it if you are the DM" work? Sure. However, I do find the fact that they call for a specific length and then fail to describe any units of length for the item to be very bad design practice.
The rope in the spell does not have a specified cost. That means that that, if you can find 25' of rope for 5 cp, you're free to use it in the spell. The fact that 2024 doesn't tell us the length of rope is, however, bad design that they should have cleaned up.
So the crux of this thread isn't "Is the component of this spell a costed component?" and instead "As a DM, how should I determine how much my players should pay for mundane items without an explicit price?"
Rations aren't for a day anymore? Technically, they're for 2 days for most characters. Why, TarodNet? Why? It makes sense but they should have called out that Malnutrition listed the amount of rations needed. I may cut the cost and weight to default back to 1 day's rations.
Hahaha, this is a conversation for another day (aka another thread). I'd rather not derail your interesting one here :)
The main difference I see between Gentle Repose and Snare (or some of the spells mentioned by Plaguescarred) is that the material components are not mentioned in the former spell's effect, but they are in the latter.
We know that the components of a spell are requirements that must be met to cast it, and they come before the spell's effect. That's why I think that if we use a Spellcasting Focus, the spell's effect for Gentle Repose is not affected, since the spell never says you have to use the copper pieces.
EDIT:
I didn't read this answer before posting, but I agree Cordon of Arrows is different for the same reason I was commenting. In this case, the components are mentioned and used in the spell's effect.
There seems to be some imprecise language/vague questions being asked, mainly revolving around what "cost" means when referring to spell components. It seems the game meaning and the colloquial meaning are being used interchangeably and that's causing the issue.
Does the spell Snare have a material component with a cost (rules language)? No, because a cost is not specified in the spells description and that's what matters:
Cost for the purpose of game rules, specifically the interaction with component pouches or spellcasting focuses, is a value amount specified in the spells description in terms of CP, SP, EP, GP, or PP (usually GP). An example of which is the spell revivify which says:
The colloquial confusion seems to come from people asserting that if a component could/should/might cost (colloquial) something, or would otherwise have implied value, the component has a cost. This is not how the cost requirement works as a cost must be stated in the spells description.
An interesting point was made about gentle repose, quoting myself. The old wording was:
Which differs from the 2024 wording:
Given the 2024 wording uses capitalized "Copper Pieces", it's referring to the specific game item of currency so that would (IMO) count as a costed component. However the 2014 version is ambiguous because 2014 rules did not leverage capitalization for rules clarity. I would assume (based on the 2024 wording change) the intent of the 2014 spells is for it to be a costed component, but the wording makes it ambiguous.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Well, let me ask a different way that is maybe better for the intent of my original question.
If am generating a character with the Snare spell prepared, what do I need to do to make sure I can actually cast the spell? I have generated my character but not picked any equipment yet, can I cast Snare?
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
You need the specified component (25 feet of rope). It can't be replaced with a focus or components pouch because the spell consumes the component.
This is all covered in the section on spellcasting components.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
This is definitely one of those times where they missed an interaction when they updated something- in 2014 there were two kinds of rope, both listed in 50 ft increments. Ergo no fixed price for Snare, so there was no weirdness about using either type of rope. They consolidated this into a single Rope item of no specific length in 2024, but apparently failed to catch that they’d need to amend Snare now that we don’t have a fixed cost relative to length.
Why does snare need an amendment? How is it any different from any other non-costed, consumed component with a vague description? You don't need to know how much rope costs per foot to supply 25 feet of rope, you just need aforementioned length of chord.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Wait. Rope isn't 50 feet anymore? I missed that.
I am sorry. I am still getting your position. Do I have to pay 1 GP in order to have an unspecified amount of rope that I can potentially subdivide into material components or is it like freshly gathered berries and it's just a thing I have? Do I have to buy rope to cast Snare and do I have to buy mistletoe to cast Druid Grove?
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
It's an odd change IMO.
- 2024 Bring Back Hempen Rope
- equipment, rope and rations: what amount?
You need to acquire a rope of at least 25 feet in length. That's it. I'm not sure why you're overcomplicating things. The amount and cost will be specified by your DM.
Not sure why Druid Grove has been brought into this, but you could either harvest it yourself assuming you own a golden sickle, or buy it off someone who's done the appropriate harvesting. Again something your DM will relay.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
It's something that came up in another discussion. As the DM, I am asking for the consensus on RAW/RAI. It's kind of the specific purpose of this forum. "Ask the DM" is a pointless deflection of the question.
Druid Grove is also a consumed material component. There has to be a consistent way to say for both spells that I can now cast them. Do these components have a RAW/RAI cost? If so, what is the cost of the mistletoe? What is the cost of the 25 feet of rope?
I can decide whatever I want on game night, but I'm not asking what I should do.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
...
Rations aren't for a day anymore? Technically, they're for 2 days for most characters. Why, TarodNet? Why? It makes sense but they should have called out that Malnutrition listed the amount of rations needed. I may cut the cost and weight to default back to 1 day's rations.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
You're grossly misunderstanding when I say "Ask the DM" and it's not a pointless deflection. It's the whole point.
The rules don't tell you what plants are in a given area, or what stock a merchant has, or if they'll offer you a discount, or if their goods are legit. If you have a spell that requires 25 feet of rope that is consumed, you need to ask your DM "where could I acquire 25 feet of rope"—you know, the whole roleplaying part of the game—and once they've given you an answer to that question, if it must be purchased you then ask the DM "Okay, how much does the merchant charge for it?"
The consistent way to say if you can cast the spells is by looking at your inventory sheet and checking if you have the required, consumed components. If you don't, you must engage in the process of playing the game in order to acquire those components. Maybe you need to commission a goldsmith to craft you a gold sickle, then wait until the full moon, and then harvest your own resources. Alternatively maybe you seek out a druid who has an excess supply and barter with them. Your DM would decide the cost in the exact same way they would decide the cost of anything else not explicitly listed in the Player's Handbook.
There is no RAW answer for "How do I acquire goods and services in D&D?" beyond "Play D&D"
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
There is. If you have the component (and the spell and the spell slot) then you can cast the spell.
The procedure to answer the question, "Do I have 25ft of rope?", is no different if you want to cast Snare than it is if you want to climb a mountain. How you have acquired the rope is something you and your DM will have to sort in-game.
Again, as the DM, you're grossly misunderstanding the point of the thread. If you don't know what the RAW answer is or are uncomfortable with committing to an opinion, that's fine.
Does Snare's Material Component have a cost? If so, what is the cost expressed in Copper Pieces, Silver Pieces, or Gold Pieces, as you prefer.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Ask the DM is an invalid answer. The DM cannot ask the DM's DM. It is not a pressing question for a current game, but I still want to know the RAW answer.
What is the RAW cost to add the material component to a character's sheet? Or does it not have a cost?
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
25 feet of rope in most markets might be 5 sp. Some places will charge you 5 times that much.
OR if you have the Crafter Feat you get a 20% discount.
OR you could use the Crafter Feat and make your own rope.
But you still need nope.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Unfortunately, there is no RAW answer to this. Does "figure it out with your DM/ad lib it if you are the DM" work? Sure. However, I do find the fact that they call for a specific length and then fail to describe any units of length for the item to be very bad design practice.
The rope in the spell does not have a specified cost. That means that that, if you can find 25' of rope for 5 cp, you're free to use it in the spell. The fact that 2024 doesn't tell us the length of rope is, however, bad design that they should have cleaned up.
So the crux of this thread isn't "Is the component of this spell a costed component?" and instead "As a DM, how should I determine how much my players should pay for mundane items without an explicit price?"
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Hahaha, this is a conversation for another day (aka another thread). I'd rather not derail your interesting one here :)
PS. 1 Rations per day works for me.