Epic Boon Eligibility confusion

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Also note that if someone were to publish an Epic Boon feat that did not have a character level requirement, you could take it at class level 4, 8, 12, 16, or 19, regardless of character level. Character level 19 is a requirement of specific Epic Boons, not of the Epic Boon feat category. It just happens that all currently published Epic Boons require character level 19, but that is not actually a requirement of the feat category.

This raises the question, why is there a separate Epic Boon Feat category at all then, if there is no difference at all between general feats and epic boons.

Quote from MPA >>

My opinion is that Epic Boons are for single class characters and are only attainable from 19th level up in a single class. They are not attainable by multiclassing and adding up different class levels to eventually total 19 character levels.

This is a house rule. Every currently published Epic Boon has a requirement of character level 19+, not class level 19+. There is no support in the rules for your opinion, so it is clearly in house rules territory. That's fine but be clear about it.

The Multiclass rules also reference character level in a few circumstances, but only where the general rules reference level ambiguously.

• Experience points to gain a level is based on your character level, not an individual class's level.
• You only get the maximum value for you class hit die at character level 1.
• Your proficiency bonus is based on you character level rather than the sum of your bonuses from your class levels.
• Cantrips improve based on your character level not your class level.

Epic Boon feats already reference character level so they do not need a call out in the Multiclass section unless they wanted to block them. There is no call out so a Wizard 15 that just leveled up to Fighter 4 (character level 19) is eligible for an Epic Boon. Leveling up to Wizard 16 allows for a second Epic Boon. This is RAW and anything else is a house rule.

Quote from Frachese >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Also note that if someone were to publish an Epic Boon feat that did not have a character level requirement, you could take it at class level 4, 8, 12, 16, or 19, regardless of character level. Character level 19 is a requirement of specific Epic Boons, not of the Epic Boon feat category. It just happens that all currently published Epic Boons require character level 19, but that is not actually a requirement of the feat category. 

This raises the question, why is there a separate Epic Boon Feat category at all then, if there is no difference at all between general feats and epic boons.

Organizational choice. It also gives the option to specify a General Feat versus an Epic Boon feat. There may have been plans to do so in certain cases, but I am not aware of any.

It doesn't change the fact that when you get a feat choice at level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19, no feat category is specified so you can choose from any feat category as long as you meet the requirements for the individual feat.

I think some people dislike the idea of attaining two epic boons due to a perception that it would be overpowered. However, there are costs to achieving that, especially, for full-casters, sacrificing access to 9th level spells.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Quote from MPA >>

My opinion is that Epic Boons are for single class characters and are only attainable from 19th level up in a single class. They are not attainable by multiclassing and adding up different class levels to eventually total 19 character levels.

This is a house rule. Every currently published Epic Boon has a requirement of character level 19+, not class level 19+. There is no support in the rules for your opinion, so it is clearly in house rules territory. That's fine but be clear about it.

The Multiclass rules also reference character level in a few circumstances, but only where the general rules reference level ambiguously.

• Experience points to gain a level is based on your character level, not an individual class's level.
• You only get the maximum value for you class hit die at character level 1.
• Your proficiency bonus is based on you character level rather than the sum of your bonuses from your class levels.
• Cantrips improve based on your character level not your class level.

Epic Boon feats already reference character level so they do not need a call out in the Multiclass section unless they wanted to block them. There is no call out so a Wizard 15 that just leveled up to Fighter 4 (character level 19) is eligible for an Epic Boon. Leveling up to Wizard 16 allows for a second Epic Boon. This is RAW and anything else is a house rule.

Quote from Frachese >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Also note that if someone were to publish an Epic Boon feat that did not have a character level requirement, you could take it at class level 4, 8, 12, 16, or 19, regardless of character level. Character level 19 is a requirement of specific Epic Boons, not of the Epic Boon feat category. It just happens that all currently published Epic Boons require character level 19, but that is not actually a requirement of the feat category. 

This raises the question, why is there a separate Epic Boon Feat category at all then, if there is no difference at all between general feats and epic boons.

Organizational choice. It also gives the option to specify a General Feat versus an Epic Boon feat. There may have been plans to do so in certain cases, but I am not aware of any.

It doesn't change the fact that when you get a feat choice at level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19, no feat category is specified so you can choose from any feat category as long as you meet the requirements for the individual feat.

That's your opinion, not a fact nor is it RAW or even RAI concerning EP's and Character Levels.  I would even throw normal Feats into this, but I prefer to stay on topic. I appreciate the detail and bullet points, but I am not so easily swayed by clean presentations or power points. Thank you for your time.

The part about Experience Points to gain a level being based on character level is a fact; it's stated explicitly in the rules right here.

If people stating what's in the rules with bullet points won't convince you, what would convince you?

It isn't complicated. You are eligible for boons at level 19+. You can even save your feat choices until level 19 to choose 4 boons at that point if you wanted to.  IMO that would be foolish, but you could. 

Quote from Anluan>>

It isn't complicated. You are eligible for boons at level 19+.

You can even save your feat choices until level 19 to choose 4 boons at that point if you wanted to.  IMO that would be foolish, but you could. 

 Not true. The rules don't explicitly address what happens if you don't choose a feat when you hit the appropriate class levels, but as far as I'm concerned, it's like picking a subclass -- this is a thing that you do at that point, and the game can't continue until you do.

Obviously, a DM could house-rule it, but giving players the opportunity to defer their late feats, which can be kind of meh if you got everything you needed in early, in order to grab extra epic boons seems like an unwise choice.

Quote from jl8e >>

 

You can even save your feat choices until level 19 to choose 4 boons at that point if you wanted to.  IMO that would be foolish, but you could. 

 Not true. The rules don't explicitly address what happens if you don't choose a feat when you hit the appropriate class levels, but as far as I'm concerned, it's like picking a subclass -- this is a thing that you do at that point, and the game can't continue until you do.

Actually, the rules explicitly require you to choose a feat when you have a choice available.

See step 3 of Gaining a Level.

When you gain a level, follow these steps:

1. Choose a Class. ...
2. Adjust Hit Points and Hit Point Dice. ...
3. Record New Class Features. Look at your class features table in “Character Classes”, and note the features you gain at your new level in that class. Make any choices offered by a new feature.
4. Adjust Proficiency Bonus. ...
5. Adjust Ability Modifiers. ...

you're right!  AI steered me wrong.  (not surprising)  

We constantly tell people on discord not to rely on AI to educate you on Dungeons and Dragons Rules

Hey guys. I know that the last few messages here have been about AI steering you wrong. My AI just told me that you get an Epic Boon at level 19 and one at level 20. 

"These are not ASIs. They do not replace ASIs. They do not require ASIs. They do not require class levels that grant feats.

They are separate, automatic, and guaranteed."

From what I am reading here so far this is definitely not true. I was trying to make some super powerful level 20 with two Epic Boons for a one shot, and my trail has led me here.

Your AI is pretty inaccurate. The only space where it is not inaccurate is that they are not, definitively, ASIs. I can't recall seeing any that do not have a stat increase, but their is nothing that demands that Epic Boons grant a stat increase.

Separate? I suppose it could be argued that means they are 'separate' from ASIs, but I think most people would disagree, especially since I think all current examples do have a stat increase,

Automatic? Only in the sense that any class feature is 'automatic'. Yes, if you reach level 19 in any single class you will automatically gain the choice of an Epic Boon.

Guaranteed? Only if you are using the reasoning similar to Automatic. You can definitely make a character, get the character to character level 20, and never qualify for an Epic Boon.

e.g.; the character is multiclassed with a 2 level dip in some class. They get a Feat at level 16 of their primary class, but are only CL 18 and do not qualify for an Epic Boon. Since levels 17 and 18 of their primary class do not grant a Feat, they never have the opportunity to gain an Epic Boon.

Quote from dominickvalenti1 >>

Hey guys. I know that the last few messages here have been about AI steering you wrong. My AI just told me that you get an Epic Boon at level 19 and one at level 20. 

Yep, your AI is steering you wrong. While the AI does have access to a primary source with the correct information (the SRD is publicly available), AIs don't have any special expertise about reliability of sources. A more precise query may help; for example, when I asked google "what does the d&d 5.5e srd say about epic boons and multiclassing" it gave me a pretty accurate summary.

That's... a take.

It's true that the level 19 "Epic Boon" class feature is not an ASI, does not replace an ASI, and does not require and ASI. However, it is literally the class level granting the ability to choose it. I don't even know what "separate, automatic, and guaranteed" is even supposed to mean in this context.

Read through the first couple of posts in this thread and you'll have everything you need to understand them.

Thanks for the quick response, guys, I think the AI was assuming that you are granted an Epic Boon for just reaching level 19, and that it does not replace a leveled feat. Wrong either way lol. 

Quote from dominickvalenti1 >>

Thanks for the quick response, guys, I think the AI was assuming that you are granted an Epic Boon for just reaching level 19, and that it does not replace a leveled feat. Wrong either way lol. 

It's worth pointing out, I think, that AI tools are not capable of "assuming" or understanding things. They are generating text that looks like an answer; what they generate doesn't have any real connection to the truth. Whether it's right or wrong is just luck.