RAW/RAI - Nystul’s Magic Aura Applications

Well, I think the real problem is that damage is by no means the only form of harm out there. "Let me cast flesh to stone on you" is not damage either.

I'm pretty sure Suggestion got reworded in 2024 because they heard complaints about "mother may I" mechanics and suggestion in 2014 was in fact incredibly unclear on what it permitted, and being hardnosed about "sounding reasonable" wound up making the actual examples in the text fail. Unfortunately, what they wound up with was grossly overtuned, and some more reasonable wordings would have eliminated standard use cases.

For example, you could change "The suggestion must sound achievable and not involve anything that would obviously deal damage to the target or its allies." to "The suggestion must sound achievable and not involve anything that would obviously be harmful to the target or its allies.", but “Fetch the key to the cult’s treasure vault, and give the key to me” probably doesn't actually qualify, and even “Stop fighting, leave this library peacefully, and don’t return” is questionable.

Quote from Tarod_ >>

...is that it could then potentially allow you to cast damaging spells that require a Saving Throw (e.g. Fireball or Lightning Bolt) as well.

 

 Sure, I totally get where you're coming from, and if the text said, "The suggestion must sound achievable and not involve anything that could possibly deal damage to the target or its allies," then I'd agree with you 100%.  But because instead of "could possibly" it says "would obviously," the implication is that the possibility of the spell leading to damage is perfectly acceptable, so long as that outcome isn't obvious.

Also, using it to get away with an unresisted fireball or lightning bolt is pretty lame anyway.  Like, yeah, you get to sneak one in with no saving throw, but the damage breaks the charm and ends the Suggestion spell.  It probably hurt, sure, but it's sort of a waste of the spell.

You could, say, change the type of a Marut to undead and have Orcus raise it with the wand of Orcus 

It's funny you say that.  I thought for a moment that I found the wand of Orcus in the game that I'm playing in currently.  I found it in a treasure hoard of an ancient white dragon, buried under four layers of frozen treasure and rime. 

"Fourth Layer. The fourth layer of ice shields the biggest, heaviest items and the treasure the dragon values the most: a 3-foot-diameter ceremonial bronze bowl inlaid with carnelians (1,000 gp), seven garnets (100 gp each), a suit of mithral armor (chain mail), and a near-perfect replica of the Wand of Orcus that emits green light from the skull at its tip. Any character who tries to attune to this Wand of Orcus realizes it’s a fake, though it does emit magical light comparable to that created by a continual flame spell."

Sadly, it turned out to be a well-crafted forgery.  Not sure what I'm going to do with it yet, but I'll come up with something.

Quote from Ghazrin >>

Sadly, it turned out to be a well-crafted forgery.  Not sure what I'm going to do with it yet, but I'll come up with something.

Hm. Is that from some published adventure? I am in need of a plausible way to have my PCs go off chasing the wand of Orcus without going and fighting Orcus, and a forgery fits the bill.

Yep! It's in Rime of the Frostmaiden, found aboard a ship called the Dark Duchess, frozen just off shore in the Sea of Moving Ice.  But the info I posted about it above is literally all the adventure says about it, as far as I know.  So you could take that and just put the item into your game however you wish

The wand of Orcus is annoying because there's generally no apparent reason it would be kicking around loose, as opposed to just carried by Orcus, and Orcus is an endgame boss so the stats of something you can acquire by looting his body are rarely going to be relevant.

I mean, true, but also: "Orcus allows the wand to slip from his grasp from time to time. When it does, it magically appears wherever its master senses an opportunity to achieve some fell goal."  You could have him give it to literally anyone he thinks he could use to further his aims.  That person wields it's power, growing to become the BBEG that your party has to figure out how to defeat.  And when they finally do, they claim the real Wand, only to have Orcus, annoyed that they interfered with his puppet, come to reclaim what's his and crush the meddlesome heroes. 🙂 idk...just some off the top of my head ish.

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

Well, I think the real problem is that damage is by no means the only form of harm out there. "Let me cast flesh to stone on you" is not damage either.

 
Your biggest problem here would be that both of these spells require concentration...