I'm soliciting opinions as to whether a spell caster can cast a spell with a Somatic component while they have the Grappled condition. Spell casting rules say that "A Somatic component is a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. A spell caster must use at least of their hands to perform these movements."
A grappled spellcaster could argue that they still have one hand free since the Grappled condition doesn't specifically say that both hands are tied up. Therefore it seems RAW still lets the spell caster cast a Somatic spell, but it defies common sense. How is the spell caster going to do these intricate set of gestures when they are being wrestled by an opponent who has them grappled?
OK how about this, what if an attacker says that I'm going to grapple a spellcaster using an over-the-arms bearhug (trapping the spellcaster's arms/hands to their sides), or perhaps is going to grab a spellcaster's hand in each of their hands...then rolls a successful to hit roll. Must the spellcaster then use their next action to end/escape the grapple before they can cast a spell with Somatic components. Speaking of spell components, how is a grappled spell caster able to get material spell components out of their pouches?
The thing is, the Grappled condition in 5e24 isn't a full bear hug, or anything close. It's barely even a clinch. It's really just grabbing onto an opponent with one appendage so you can hold them in place/control their movement
Restrained would be closer to what you're looking for, but even then it doesn't mechanically impact casting. (You have to go all the way up to Incapacitated for that). That would be the condition to target if you're thinking about house-ruling something around somatic components
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid) PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Attacks Affected. You have Disadvantage on attack rolls against any target other than the grappler.
Movable. The grappler can drag or carry you when it moves, but every foot of movement costs it 1 extra foot unless you are Tiny or two or more sizes smaller than it.
I was thinking about a curve-ball I could throw at my players where for example in a tavern fight (or wherever) two or more strong zero-level NPC or man-at-arms, city guard(s) (STR 16+) could each grapple a spell caster each NPC grabbing one of the spellcaster's hands and prevent at least Somatic spells from being cast until the grapple was broken/ended.
Other idea. The Casting Spells section in the PHB says, as respects Verbal (V) spells, that "a creature who is gagged or in an area of magical silence can't cast a spell with a Verbal component." Anybody here willing to say that an opponent could grapple a spell caster, with the intent of firmly covering the spellcaster's mouth with their hand (essentially gagging them) ? Perhaps using the old "called shot" rule which imposes a -4 to hit?
I'm soliciting opinions as to whether a spell caster can cast a spell with a Somatic component while they have the Grappled condition. Spell casting rules say that "A Somatic component is a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. A spell caster must use at least of their hands to perform these movements."
The RAW answer is easy, the rules doesn't say that spellcasting is hindered and thus it isn't.
A grappled spellcaster could argue that they still have one hand free since the Grappled condition doesn't specifically say that both hands are tied up. Therefore it seems RAW still lets the spell caster cast a Somatic spell, but it defies common sense. How is the spell caster going to do these intricate set of gestures when they are being wrestled by an opponent who has them grappled?
One of the main problems here is that many misunderstand what they rules mean when they say "Grappled". A grapple requires one hand (or other body part in some cases) and makes you unable to move away and is, usually, done standing up. It isn't two judokas rolling around on the ground choking each other out or one guy bear-hugging the other squeezing the life out of him. It is one hand reaching out and holding on to the other person (somewhere in the torso area most likely, holding on to someones wrist or arm really doesn't allow you to restrict their movement much at all).
OK how about this, what if an attacker says that I'm going to grapple a spellcaster using an over-the-arms bearhug (trapping the spellcaster's arms/hands to their sides), or perhaps is going to grab a spellcaster's hand in each of their hands...then rolls a successful to hit roll. Must the spellcaster then use their next action to end/escape the grapple before they can cast a spell with Somatic components. Speaking of spell components, how is a grappled spell caster able to get material spell components out of their pouches?
I would really suggest not going in this direction. Partly because it is far more impactful than what the rules expect from a grapple and partly because you are expecting to do quite a lot with not that much. One of your examples is making two separate grapples and the other sounds more like what the 2014 Grappler feat did (which also would require one more check).
But mainly because there isn't any reason why any sort of grappling/wrestling that would hinder spellcasting wouldn't be equally usable against someone using a weapon? Doing the somatic components of a spell or swinging a sword or loading/drawing a bow isn't so different that spellcasting alone should be singled out as easily stopped by a grapple.
Short answer: anything that doesn't prevent a martial character from swinging a sword, also doesn't stop a spellcaster casting a spell with S components. If a grappler could gag a spellcaster they could also prevent a martial from swinging a weapon, an archer from drawing a bow, a monk from throwing a punch or a paladin from using a shield.
It's up to you if you want to HB that grappling can do all of those things or not. But it makes no sense for spellcasters to be uniquely incapacitated by being grappled.
As others have said, you can cast while grappled. This means you are free to Misty Step out of a grapple.
Certain spells will still be impacted though. Any spell with an attack roll will be at disadvantage unless you target the grappler. Any spells with a ranged attack roll will be at disadvantage even if you target the grappler unless you have Spell Sniper. Spells with a save or otherwise without attack rolls are not affected.
As others have said, you can cast while grappled. This means you are free to Misty Step out of a grapple.
You could do that even if being grappled did affect somatic components of spells. Misty Step is V only
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Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid) PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Short answer: anything that doesn't prevent a martial character from swinging a sword, also doesn't stop a spellcaster casting a spell with S components. If a grappler could gag a spellcaster they could also prevent a martial from swinging a weapon, an archer from drawing a bow, a monk from throwing a punch or a paladin from using a shield.
It's up to you if you want to HB that grappling can do all of those things or not. But it makes no sense for spellcasters to be uniquely incapacitated by being grappled.
That's a really good analogy. Thank you for that perspective. If a spellcaster could be grappled to stop spell casting, then that would open the door to an NPC trying to grapple a Fighter's sword-hand so the Fighter could not fight with the sword unless they used an action to break the grapple.
I was thinking about a curve-ball I could throw at my players where for example in a tavern fight (or wherever) two or more strong zero-level NPC or man-at-arms, city guard(s) (STR 16+) could each grapple a spell caster each NPC grabbing one of the spellcaster's hands and prevent at least Somatic spells from being cast until the grapple was broken/ended.
Other idea. The Casting Spells section in the PHB says, as respects Verbal (V) spells, that "a creature who is gagged or in an area of magical silence can't cast a spell with a Verbal component." Anybody here willing to say that an opponent could grapple a spell caster, with the intent of firmly covering the spellcaster's mouth with their hand (essentially gagging them) ? Perhaps using the old "called shot" rule which imposes a -4 to hit?
IF this is a thing you want, you could make it work by making some of your commoners into a swarm monster, and giving it a special attack that lets it grapple with additional restrictive effects.
Something like "Mob Grapple: Attempt to grab an enemy en masse. Make a Grapple attempt (DC X). While grappled, the target may not make any actions that require the use of their hands. The Swarm of Pheasants may only grapple one enemy at a time."
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I'm soliciting opinions as to whether a spell caster can cast a spell with a Somatic component while they have the Grappled condition. Spell casting rules say that "A Somatic component is a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. A spell caster must use at least of their hands to perform these movements."
A grappled spellcaster could argue that they still have one hand free since the Grappled condition doesn't specifically say that both hands are tied up. Therefore it seems RAW still lets the spell caster cast a Somatic spell, but it defies common sense. How is the spell caster going to do these intricate set of gestures when they are being wrestled by an opponent who has them grappled?
OK how about this, what if an attacker says that I'm going to grapple a spellcaster using an over-the-arms bearhug (trapping the spellcaster's arms/hands to their sides), or perhaps is going to grab a spellcaster's hand in each of their hands...then rolls a successful to hit roll. Must the spellcaster then use their next action to end/escape the grapple before they can cast a spell with Somatic components. Speaking of spell components, how is a grappled spell caster able to get material spell components out of their pouches?
By the rules, yes. Being grappled doesn't say it restricts casting, so it doesn't.
It would also make grappling way too good against casters, who usually aren't too hot in Str or Dex.
The thing is, the Grappled condition in 5e24 isn't a full bear hug, or anything close. It's barely even a clinch. It's really just grabbing onto an opponent with one appendage so you can hold them in place/control their movement
Restrained would be closer to what you're looking for, but even then it doesn't mechanically impact casting. (You have to go all the way up to Incapacitated for that). That would be the condition to target if you're thinking about house-ruling something around somatic components
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yeah, while you have the Grappled condition, you experience only the following effects, so RAW you can still cast spells with V, S or M components.
I was thinking about a curve-ball I could throw at my players where for example in a tavern fight (or wherever) two or more strong zero-level NPC or man-at-arms, city guard(s) (STR 16+) could each grapple a spell caster each NPC grabbing one of the spellcaster's hands and prevent at least Somatic spells from being cast until the grapple was broken/ended.
Other idea. The Casting Spells section in the PHB says, as respects Verbal (V) spells, that "a creature who is gagged or in an area of magical silence can't cast a spell with a Verbal component." Anybody here willing to say that an opponent could grapple a spell caster, with the intent of firmly covering the spellcaster's mouth with their hand (essentially gagging them) ? Perhaps using the old "called shot" rule which imposes a -4 to hit?
The RAW answer is easy, the rules doesn't say that spellcasting is hindered and thus it isn't.
One of the main problems here is that many misunderstand what they rules mean when they say "Grappled". A grapple requires one hand (or other body part in some cases) and makes you unable to move away and is, usually, done standing up. It isn't two judokas rolling around on the ground choking each other out or one guy bear-hugging the other squeezing the life out of him. It is one hand reaching out and holding on to the other person (somewhere in the torso area most likely, holding on to someones wrist or arm really doesn't allow you to restrict their movement much at all).
I would really suggest not going in this direction. Partly because it is far more impactful than what the rules expect from a grapple and partly because you are expecting to do quite a lot with not that much. One of your examples is making two separate grapples and the other sounds more like what the 2014 Grappler feat did (which also would require one more check).
But mainly because there isn't any reason why any sort of grappling/wrestling that would hinder spellcasting wouldn't be equally usable against someone using a weapon? Doing the somatic components of a spell or swinging a sword or loading/drawing a bow isn't so different that spellcasting alone should be singled out as easily stopped by a grapple.
Short answer: anything that doesn't prevent a martial character from swinging a sword, also doesn't stop a spellcaster casting a spell with S components. If a grappler could gag a spellcaster they could also prevent a martial from swinging a weapon, an archer from drawing a bow, a monk from throwing a punch or a paladin from using a shield.
It's up to you if you want to HB that grappling can do all of those things or not. But it makes no sense for spellcasters to be uniquely incapacitated by being grappled.
As others have said, you can cast while grappled. This means you are free to Misty Step out of a grapple.
Certain spells will still be impacted though. Any spell with an attack roll will be at disadvantage unless you target the grappler. Any spells with a ranged attack roll will be at disadvantage even if you target the grappler unless you have Spell Sniper. Spells with a save or otherwise without attack rolls are not affected.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
You could do that even if being grappled did affect somatic components of spells. Misty Step is V only
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That's a really good analogy. Thank you for that perspective. If a spellcaster could be grappled to stop spell casting, then that would open the door to an NPC trying to grapple a Fighter's sword-hand so the Fighter could not fight with the sword unless they used an action to break the grapple.
IF this is a thing you want, you could make it work by making some of your commoners into a swarm monster, and giving it a special attack that lets it grapple with additional restrictive effects.
Something like "Mob Grapple: Attempt to grab an enemy en masse. Make a Grapple attempt (DC X). While grappled, the target may not make any actions that require the use of their hands. The Swarm of Pheasants may only grapple one enemy at a time."