If I cast chromatic orb and use empowered spell on the damage roll against the first target and the orb bounces on to a second target, can I spend a second sorcery point to use a new instance of empowered spell in the damage roll against that second target?
The rule says you can use only one metamagic option in the casting of a spell, but empowered spell is used during damage roll not during casting, so should the limit apply?
A strict reading of the rules would say you can't use Empowered Spell more than once on the same casting. Although Empowered Spell does have an override allowing you to use it if another metamagic option was already used, it specifically says "if you've already used a different metamagic option" — meaning, you can use it combination with a different one, but not in combination with another instance of itself.
Personally, I think that's silly, and I've never enforced it; if I'm DMing, you can use it again on a different damage roll from the same spell if you pay the Sorcery Point cost again. But according to the Rules As Written, that's not actually allowed.
Note here Sage Advice explaining that the rules don't generally allow using the same option more than once.
Yeah, if you used Empowered Spell, you cannot use Empowered Spell again because it's not a different metamagic option.
I'm not adding anything new to what was already commented, right? But... I wanted to support wagnarokkr :), since I've read (but haven't experienced or applied it in my games) that some DMs allow it.
Per the SAC ruling on scorching ray, you might not need to spend a second Sorcery Point on subsequent damage rolls
Can Empowered Spell affect all the rays of a Scorching Ray spell or just one?
A Sorcerer’s Empowered Spell could affect more than one ray of a Scorching Ray, abiding by the feature’s die limit. For instance, if you create three rays with the spell and you have a +3 Charisma modifier, you could reroll one of the damage dice for each ray, or two of the damage dice for one ray and one of the damage dice for another one.
Once you've spent the Sorcery Point on a spell, you essentially have a pool of re-rolls equal to your CHA mod to use on it. If you don't use them up on the first roll, they would still be available for future bounces of your chromatic orb
If you do use them up though, then no, you wouldn't be able to reactivate Empowered with another Sorcery Point
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Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid) PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
My doubt is that the rule is very specific that "You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it", but you use empowered spell "when you roll damage for a spell" not "when you cast a spell" like is the case for every other metamagic option except seeking spell. That makes me think that empowered spell and seeking spell might not be subject to the limitation as a result.
My doubt is that the rule is very specific that "You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it", but you use empowered spell "when you roll damage for a spell" not "when you cast a spell" like is the case for every other metamagic option except seeking spell. That makes me think that empowered spell and seeking spell might not be subject to the limitation as a result.
I think that language is meant to make it possible to use it with spells that don’t necessarily do damage immediately when you cast them, like Cloud of Daggers or whatever.
It does have an override that explicitly allows it to be used when a different metamagic option has already been used. But it very specifically says “different”.
My doubt is that the rule is very specific that "You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it", but you use empowered spell "when you roll damage for a spell" not "when you cast a spell" like is the case for every other metamagic option except seeking spell. That makes me think that empowered spell and seeking spell might not be subject to the limitation as a result.
It's as wagnarokkr said. Seeking Spell and Empowered Spell are used after casting a spell, unlike other Metamagic Options, but the limitation stands.
Even so, the wording "When you cast a spell" used in other Metamagic Options is not understood the same way by everybody. Under my interpretation, that wording means the Metamagic option can interact with the spell at the moment of casting, not on later turns. As I said, not a universal understanding, see for example next threads or comments:
If I cast chromatic orb and use empowered spell on the damage roll against the first target and the orb bounces on to a second target, can I spend a second sorcery point to use a new instance of empowered spell in the damage roll against that second target?
The rule says you can use only one metamagic option in the casting of a spell, but empowered spell is used during damage roll not during casting, so should the limit apply?
A strict reading of the rules would say you can't use Empowered Spell more than once on the same casting. Although Empowered Spell does have an override allowing you to use it if another metamagic option was already used, it specifically says "if you've already used a different metamagic option" — meaning, you can use it combination with a different one, but not in combination with another instance of itself.
Personally, I think that's silly, and I've never enforced it; if I'm DMing, you can use it again on a different damage roll from the same spell if you pay the Sorcery Point cost again. But according to the Rules As Written, that's not actually allowed.
Note here Sage Advice explaining that the rules don't generally allow using the same option more than once.
pronouns: he/she/they
Yeah, if you used Empowered Spell, you cannot use Empowered Spell again because it's not a different metamagic option.
I'm not adding anything new to what was already commented, right? But... I wanted to support wagnarokkr :), since I've read (but haven't experienced or applied it in my games) that some DMs allow it.
Per the SAC ruling on scorching ray, you might not need to spend a second Sorcery Point on subsequent damage rolls
Once you've spent the Sorcery Point on a spell, you essentially have a pool of re-rolls equal to your CHA mod to use on it. If you don't use them up on the first roll, they would still be available for future bounces of your chromatic orb
If you do use them up though, then no, you wouldn't be able to reactivate Empowered with another Sorcery Point
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
My doubt is that the rule is very specific that "You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it", but you use empowered spell "when you roll damage for a spell" not "when you cast a spell" like is the case for every other metamagic option except seeking spell. That makes me think that empowered spell and seeking spell might not be subject to the limitation as a result.
I think that language is meant to make it possible to use it with spells that don’t necessarily do damage immediately when you cast them, like Cloud of Daggers or whatever.
It does have an override that explicitly allows it to be used when a different metamagic option has already been used. But it very specifically says “different”.
pronouns: he/she/they
It's as wagnarokkr said. Seeking Spell and Empowered Spell are used after casting a spell, unlike other Metamagic Options, but the limitation stands.
Even so, the wording "When you cast a spell" used in other Metamagic Options is not understood the same way by everybody. Under my interpretation, that wording means the Metamagic option can interact with the spell at the moment of casting, not on later turns. As I said, not a universal understanding, see for example next threads or comments:
- RAW/RAI - Mordenkainen's Hound Rules & Exploits (comment #10)
- RAW/RAI - Mordenkainen's Hound Rules & Exploits (comment #43)
- RAW, and 'When a spell you cast..."
- Cacaphonice Shield on a Draconic Sorcerer
- Careful Spell Metamagic and saving throw timing
EDIT: for clarity.