Question: If you have Temp HP while at 0 HP, and you take damage, would you suffer failed saving throws?
IMO you still take damage even if loosing Temporary Hit Points only so you'd suffer a death saving throw failure, two if the attacker is within 5 feet of you.
One other thing that’s Power Word Kill specific, is it doesn’t reduce you to 0 hp. It just kills you. At 0 hp you get death saves, at dead, you get revivified.
So in that case, I think the thp would just go away, no? Surely you don’t get to keep them after you die.
Question: If you have Temp HP while at 0 HP, and you take damage, would you suffer failed saving throws?
IMO you still take damage even if loosing Temporary Hit Points only so you'd suffer a death saving throw failure, two if the attacker is within 5 feet of you.
The DC is 15 in that case. When Temporary Hit Points absorb damage for you, you’re still taking damage, just not to your real Hit Points.
In contrast, a feature like the Abjurer Wizard’s Arcane Ward can take damage for you, potentially eliminating the need to make a Constitution saving throw or, at least, lowering the DC of that save.
Temporary Hit Points last until they’re depleted or you finish a Long Rest (see the Rules Glossary)
Given that being reduced to 0 by effects such as PWK neither deplete temporary hit points nor trigger a long rest, the temporary hit points would persist.
I think the most critical rule is [Temporary Hit Points Are] Not Hit Points or Healing. This means that any mechanic, such as Power Word Kill, that checks Hit Points ignores Temporary Hit Points. "Do you have x hit points" checks will ignore your temporary hit points. If you have 100 hit points and 1,000 Temporary Hit Points, Power Word Kill instantly kills you. If you are set to 0 hit points somehow but do not instantly die, you are unconscious and must make death saving throws. If you are hit with an attack while unconscious, any Temporary Hit Points will protect you from automatic failures if they prevent all the damage from the attack. This is true regardless of whether you had temporary hit points before being reduced to 0 or gained them after.
[...] If you are hit with an attack while unconscious, any Temporary Hit Points will protect you from automatic failures if they prevent all the damage from the attack. This is true regardless of whether you had temporary hit points before being reduced to 0 or gained them after.
But the rules say:
Damage at 0 Hit Points.If you take any damage while you have 0 Hit Points, you suffer a Death Saving Throw failure. If the damage is from a Critical Hit, you suffer two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your Hit Point maximum, you die.
IMO, having Temporary Hit Points shouldn't bypass that. It's the same as what you're saying about Power Word Kill checking Hit Points and ignoring Temporary Hit Points.
Question: If you have Temp HP while at 0 HP, and you take damage, would you suffer failed saving throws?
IMO you still take damage even if loosing Temporary Hit Points only so you'd suffer a death saving throw failure, two if the attacker is within 5 feet of you.
The DC is 15 in that case. When Temporary Hit Points absorb damage for you, you’re still taking damage, just not to your real Hit Points.
In contrast, a feature like the Abjurer Wizard’s Arcane Ward can take damage for you, potentially eliminating the need to make a Constitution saving throw or, at least, lowering the DC of that save.
[...] If you are hit with an attack while unconscious, any Temporary Hit Points will protect you from automatic failures if they prevent all the damage from the attack. This is true regardless of whether you had temporary hit points before being reduced to 0 or gained them after.
But the rules say:
Damage at 0 Hit Points.If you take any damage while you have 0 Hit Points, you suffer a Death Saving Throw failure. If the damage is from a Critical Hit, you suffer two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your Hit Point maximum, you die.
IMO, having Temporary Hit Points shouldn't bypass that. It's the same as what you're saying about Power Word Kill checking Hit Points and ignoring Temporary Hit Points.
This is an edge-case interaction. Normally, you don't have any temporary hit points when you're at zero HP, so the question doesn't come up. You certainly can rule it that way, but I don't think one would be wrong to rule it as the temp HP get to soak the damage.
SAC clearly explain that even when Temporary Hit Points absorb damage for you, you’re still taking damage. One of the reason is that it can trigger game features accordingly.
“A dead creature has no Hit Points and can’t regain them unless it is first revived by magic such as the Raise Dead or Revivifyspell. When such a spell is cast, the spirit knows who is casting it and can refuse. The spirit of a dead creature has left the body and departed for the Outer Planes, and reviving the creature requires calling the spirit back.”
Strictly speaking, it doesn’t say the HP are reduced, simply that the mechanic no longer applies.
For 2014, yes, but that version of Wild Shape changed your Hit Points and instead of giving you Temporary Hit Points. It could have been carried forward with a different explanation, but unfortunately, they didn't do that.
For 2014, yes, but that version of Wild Shape changed your Hit Points and instead of giving you Temporary Hit Points. It could have been carried forward with a different explanation, but unfortunately, they didn't do that.
I think for that reason (Wild Shape has different rules and behavior), the question isn't needed anymore. As you said, "This means that any mechanic, such as Power Word Kill, that checks Hit Points ignores Temporary Hit Points."
Ok sure, technically this is the more accurate way of describing it. But in the context of this discussion I'm not sure how this distinction matters at all.
After dying from PWK, whatever hit points you had are effectively lost. You certainly do not have a non-zero amount of HP at that moment.
Whichever effect brings you back to life determines your new HP total.
Example. You have 99 HP. You are slain by PWK. Now you do not have 99 HP. Next, you are brought back by Revivify. Now you have 1 HP. (Temp HP have remained unchanged throughout).
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IMO you still take damage even if loosing Temporary Hit Points only so you'd suffer a death saving throw failure, two if the attacker is within 5 feet of you.
One other thing that’s Power Word Kill specific, is it doesn’t reduce you to 0 hp. It just kills you. At 0 hp you get death saves, at dead, you get revivified.
So in that case, I think the thp would just go away, no? Surely you don’t get to keep them after you die.
The only reduce to 0 hp effect I can think off offhand in 2024 is the banshee, though others may exist.
That's my ruling too.
The next SAC is related to your question, MaximusArael020:
And there's also this thread about the same topic: Temporary Hit Points and Death
Power Word Kill typically triggers the longest of rests.
I think the most critical rule is [Temporary Hit Points Are] Not Hit Points or Healing. This means that any mechanic, such as Power Word Kill, that checks Hit Points ignores Temporary Hit Points. "Do you have x hit points" checks will ignore your temporary hit points. If you have 100 hit points and 1,000 Temporary Hit Points, Power Word Kill instantly kills you. If you are set to 0 hit points somehow but do not instantly die, you are unconscious and must make death saving throws. If you are hit with an attack while unconscious, any Temporary Hit Points will protect you from automatic failures if they prevent all the damage from the attack. This is true regardless of whether you had temporary hit points before being reduced to 0 or gained them after.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
But the rules say:
IMO, having Temporary Hit Points shouldn't bypass that. It's the same as what you're saying about Power Word Kill checking Hit Points and ignoring Temporary Hit Points.
It's also explained in the quoted SAC:
I suppose you're right. Temporary Hit Points don't do anything when you are at 0 hit points because at that point, you stop losing hit points.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the references!
This is an edge-case interaction. Normally, you don't have any temporary hit points when you're at zero HP, so the question doesn't come up. You certainly can rule it that way, but I don't think one would be wrong to rule it as the temp HP get to soak the damage.
SAC clearly explain that even when Temporary Hit Points absorb damage for you, you’re still taking damage. One of the reason is that it can trigger game features accordingly.
For example, when you take 5 Piercing damage while you have 11 Temporary Hit Points, you may use Hellish Rebuke.
Now if a game feature would trigger upon loosing Hit Points, then case where damage is all absorbed by Temporary Hit Points wouldn't trigger it.
But where taking damage is concerned, you still are.
In response to the notion that death by PWK does not cause HP to become 0 . . .
I'm AFK right now so I cannot easily quote the rule, but look up the Rules Glossary entry for "dead".
“A dead creature has no Hit Points and can’t regain them unless it is first revived by magic such as the Raise Dead or Revivifyspell. When such a spell is cast, the spirit knows who is casting it and can refuse. The spirit of a dead creature has left the body and departed for the Outer Planes, and reviving the creature requires calling the spirit back.”
Strictly speaking, it doesn’t say the HP are reduced, simply that the mechanic no longer applies.
A creature targeted by Power Word Kill isn't reduced to 0 Hit Point, it dies.
Dead creatures have no Hit Points.
While it's about the 5e Wild Shape rules, the next SAC is clear and valid for Power Word Kill:
For 2014, yes, but that version of Wild Shape changed your Hit Points and instead of giving you Temporary Hit Points. It could have been carried forward with a different explanation, but unfortunately, they didn't do that.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
I think for that reason (Wild Shape has different rules and behavior), the question isn't needed anymore. As you said, "This means that any mechanic, such as Power Word Kill, that checks Hit Points ignores Temporary Hit Points."
Ok sure, technically this is the more accurate way of describing it. But in the context of this discussion I'm not sure how this distinction matters at all.
After dying from PWK, whatever hit points you had are effectively lost. You certainly do not have a non-zero amount of HP at that moment.
Whichever effect brings you back to life determines your new HP total.
Example. You have 99 HP. You are slain by PWK. Now you do not have 99 HP. Next, you are brought back by Revivify. Now you have 1 HP. (Temp HP have remained unchanged throughout).