Title says it all. I could find no guidance on what defines a requirement.
An example- If you cast Wish to Inflict Wounds would you still have to touch the target?
Yes. If youWish to duplicate Inflict Wounds, while you don’t need to meet any requirements to cast it as it simply takes effect, the effect itself is that a creature you touch makes a Constitution saving throw, taking 2d10 Necrotic damage on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one.
So you still need to touch it.
Just had a similar conversation somewhere else. Do you need to touch it? The phrase "you touch" is on 114 out of 125 touch spells. There are at least 11 touch spells that do not use that language. So, you don't need to touch those? What about with Distance Spell? Because the phrase "you touch" is in the Text description do you still need to touch?
This was discussed before, but Range and Targets, while related, are different concepts. The target is part of the spell's effect, so it's not (normally) a requirement to cast a spell.
The 5e and 5.5e SAC have Q&A about when targeting happens:
There is an added layer of interaction between the two answers because of Ready:
When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of an action, and holding on to the spell’s magic requires Concentration, which you can maintain up to the start of your next turn. If your Concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect.
The second Sage Advice says you choose targets when you complete casting, not when you start (and not when you release the energy is implied). The first Sage Advice says that your target must be in range when you take the ready action (and complete casting the spell).
First, since the target needs to be in range only when the spell casting is complete, I don't the range is a spell casting requirement, it is an effect requirement and Wish does not bypass that.
Secondly, and more broadly applicable, readying an action to cast a spell (such as Inflict Wounds) when an enemy comes into range is not allowed by RAW. I would think that the target has to be in range when you release the spell.
I think you might be misreading the first SAC. I misread it at first as well. Note that it says, "...when you take the readied action, not when you take the Ready action." As in, your target does not need to be in range initially. It just needs to be in range when you finally use your Reaction to do the action you've already readied. The two SACs are consistent.
I think you might be misreading the first SAC. I misread it at first as well. Note that it says, "...when you take the readied action, not when you take the Ready action." As in, your target does not need to be in range initially. It just needs to be in range when you finally use your Reaction to do the action you've already readied. The two SACs are consistent.
Title says it all. I could find no guidance on what defines a requirement.
An example- If you cast Wish to Inflict Wounds would you still have to touch the target?
Yes. If youWish to duplicate Inflict Wounds, while you don’t need to meet any requirements to cast it as it simply takes effect, the effect itself is that a creature you touch makes a Constitution saving throw, taking 2d10 Necrotic damage on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one.
So you still need to touch it.
Just had a similar conversation somewhere else. Do you need to touch it? The phrase "you touch" is on 114 out of 125 touch spells. There are at least 11 touch spells that do not use that language. So, you don't need to touch those? What about with Distance Spell? Because the phrase "you touch" is in the Text description do you still need to touch?
By default:
Touch. The spell’s effect originates on something, as defined by the spell, that the spellcaster must touch within their reach.
I think you might be misreading the first SAC. I misread it at first as well. Note that it says, "...when you take the readied action, not when you take the Ready action." As in, your target does not need to be in range initially. It just needs to be in range when you finally use your Reaction to do the action you've already readied. The two SACs are consistent.
You are correct. Thank you.
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't say anything about that when I replied to SmiteMakesRight_3_5, but yeah, my reading is the same as sabin76, so I also think both SACs are saying essentially the same thing.
Title says it all. I could find no guidance on what defines a requirement.
An example- If you cast Wish to Inflict Wounds would you still have to touch the target?
Yes. If youWish to duplicate Inflict Wounds, while you don’t need to meet any requirements to cast it as it simply takes effect, the effect itself is that a creature you touch makes a Constitution saving throw, taking 2d10 Necrotic damage on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one.
So you still need to touch it.
Just had a similar conversation somewhere else. Do you need to touch it? The phrase "you touch" is on 114 out of 125 touch spells. There are at least 11 touch spells that do not use that language. So, you don't need to touch those? What about with Distance Spell? Because the phrase "you touch" is in the Text description do you still need to touch?
Spells effect with a range of touch means the spellcaster must touch within their reach.
My question was not answered. I am well aware of what Range and Targets mean when it comes to spellcasting. My question is how are you generally ruling attempts to violate the Range parameter?
Example:
DM: From around the corner of the hallway about 50 feet from you steps a goblin who fires his shortbow at you . . . and misses. What do you do?
Player: I cast Shocking Grasp on the goblin.
DM: ???
Example 2:
DM: Cresting up and over the mountaintop a quarter mile or so away you spot an enormous green dragon which begins flying in your direction. What do you do?
Player: I cast Magic Missile at the dragon.
DM: ???
I've never really seen a game played where the DM just responds with something like: "Ok, you cast the spell. Your action is wasted and your spell slot is wasted."
Instead, I typically see the DM say something like "Well, that target is out of range. Do you want to do something else instead?"
Perhaps the first response is closer to the RAW than the second one, but only if you are actually applying the rule for Invalid Targets, which is questionable as I said before. The second response essentially treats attempting to originate the effect within the range as a requirement of casting the spell in the first place. That's how I normally see people play it, but my point is that I don't see a slam dunk rule for ruling this in either direction. I also suspect that how some DMs run the above situations might be inconsistent with their insistence that legally selecting the point of origin is not a requirement for casting the spell.
A related question arises regarding the Clear Path rule. To keep it simple, suppose you are casting a spell which clearly targets a single creature directly (not an AoE spell). Say, Fire Bolt, for example. It was fully described that the enemy has run behind a large brick wall and enjoys Total Cover from there. The player declares that he casts Fire Bolt at that enemy. This is also a case where the Invalid Targets rule does not really fit the scenario. But if that's not the rule that we are using to justify a wasted action and wasted spell slot, then which rule are we pointing to when we say that such things are not requirements for actually casting the spell? What is supposed to actually happen in these cases and where in the rules does it say so?
A spellcaster knows it's spell’s range indicates how far from it the spell’s effect can originate, and which part of the effect is limited by the range and what it can or cannot target as explained in Spells rules section, including things like Invalid Targets and Clear Path to the Target.
1. Casting Shocking Grasp from this location means nothing happens to the Goblin because it can't be affected by it not being within range of touch. You perceive that the spell did nothing to the target.
2. Casting Magic Missile from this location means nothing happens to the Dragon because it can't be affected by it not being within range of 120 feet. The spell slot is expended and you perceive that the spell did nothing to the target.
3. Casting Fire Bolt from this location means nothing happens to the creature. To target something with a spell, a caster must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind Total Cover because such creature can’t be targeted directly with a spell. You perceive that the spell did nothing to the target if you still insist on choosing an Invalid Target i suppose.
I've never really seen a game played where the DM just responds with something like: "Ok, you cast the spell. Your action is wasted and your spell slot is wasted."
Instead, I typically see the DM say something like "Well, that target is out of range. Do you want to do something else instead?"
I would likely word that question as "Well, you think that the target is out of range. Do you want to do something else instead?". And if the answer still is that they want to cast the spell then I'd allow them wasting the action/slot.
This is possibly not strictly according to RAW but if a character wants to use a spell to basically do a warning shot that's intentionally not hitting anything then why not. That's a piece of roleplay I think should be allowed Of course I would not allow them to use such a tactic just to get around some other rule that stops them from targeting something (Sanctuary for example, or something similar).
Just had a similar conversation somewhere else. Do you need to touch it? The phrase "you touch" is on 114 out of 125 touch spells. There are at least 11 touch spells that do not use that language. So, you don't need to touch those? What about with Distance Spell? Because the phrase "you touch" is in the Text description do you still need to touch?
I think you might be misreading the first SAC. I misread it at first as well. Note that it says, "...when you take the readied action, not when you take the Ready action." As in, your target does not need to be in range initially. It just needs to be in range when you finally use your Reaction to do the action you've already readied. The two SACs are consistent.
You are correct. Thank you.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
By default:
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't say anything about that when I replied to SmiteMakesRight_3_5, but yeah, my reading is the same as sabin76, so I also think both SACs are saying essentially the same thing.
Spells effect with a range of touch means the spellcaster must touch within their reach.
A spellcaster knows it's spell’s range indicates how far from it the spell’s effect can originate, and which part of the effect is limited by the range and what it can or cannot target as explained in Spells rules section, including things like Invalid Targets and Clear Path to the Target.
1. Casting Shocking Grasp from this location means nothing happens to the Goblin because it can't be affected by it not being within range of touch. You perceive that the spell did nothing to the target.
2. Casting Magic Missile from this location means nothing happens to the Dragon because it can't be affected by it not being within range of 120 feet. The spell slot is expended and you perceive that the spell did nothing to the target.
3. Casting Fire Bolt from this location means nothing happens to the creature. To target something with a spell, a caster must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind Total Cover because such creature can’t be targeted directly with a spell. You perceive that the spell did nothing to the target if you still insist on choosing an Invalid Target i suppose.
I would likely word that question as "Well, you think that the target is out of range. Do you want to do something else instead?". And if the answer still is that they want to cast the spell then I'd allow them wasting the action/slot.
This is possibly not strictly according to RAW but if a character wants to use a spell to basically do a warning shot that's intentionally not hitting anything then why not. That's a piece of roleplay I think should be allowed Of course I would not allow them to use such a tactic just to get around some other rule that stops them from targeting something (Sanctuary for example, or something similar).