Questions about Contagion

Quote from Natrel>>

Does the target repeat the saving throw even if they succeed the initial save?

No. It's a save or suck spell. The spell doesn't indicate there are any effects that come with succeeding on the initial save, so the spell simply ends, same as it would for any other save or suck spell

No. Damage is only on the initial casting. The subsequent saves are just to determine how long the boosted Poisoned condition lasts

No and no. Once you fail the initial save, you are Poisoned-Plus, and the duration of that condition isn't resolved until you get three successes or failures on the subsequent saves, the equivalent of making Death Saving Throws -- the individual Contagion Saves don't impose effects on their own

If you succeed on the initial save, none of that happens

Yes. Spells end when their effects end. For a spell to be able to lie "dormant" after its effects have been cured/dispelled/whatever, it would need to be very explicit about that fact. The listed 7 days is the maximum possible duration, not a mandatory duration

Quote from sabin76 >>

I really do think the intent was to have the target make a minimum of 3 (4?) saves before the spell ends.

Why? No other spell in any official content works like that, and those that trigger saves over several turns at least require concentration. The fact that Contagion doesn't require concentration is already pretty strong, no need to make this spell any stronger. What you're suggesting would make it stronger than Finger of Death, a 7th level spell.

By the RAW reading the Contagion spell is grossly overpowered, it gives Disadvantage on a saving throw, the Poisoned Condition and deals 11d8 Necrotic damage for at least three rounds and if you try to remove the poisoned condition. Genuinely I do not think it could ever be the RAI perspective of the spell, no other 5th level spell comes close to the combat effective damage this one does.

Antipathy/Sympathy has saves where successes do not end the spell.

Befuddlement has saves every 30 days and tells you it ends on a success.

Blindness/Deafness has a duration, multiple saves, and tells you that a success ends it.

Call Lightning has a duration and doesn't end on a success (it's half damage).

Cloudkill has a duration and doesn't end when a creature succeeds its save.

I think there are plenty of examples where the spell doesn't end, even if a creature succeeds on the save. Certainly enough for that interpretation of Contagion to not be dismissed immediately.

Now, I'm quite certain that you don't ALSO take damage and get the Poisoned Condition if you fail the CON save to get rid of a Poisoned Condition later on. That's not one of the saves the spell references in the first two paragraphs. This is a new save with new success and failure effects.

Lastly, I'm not seeing anywhere in the rules that a spell ends when its effects do. It's certainly a logical conclusion, but without it being in the rules, we must assume that a spell lasts its duration until it is ended by one of the ways the rules outline ending a spell can occur.

Alright, let's look at these spells :)

Quote from sabin76 >>

Antipathy/Sympathy has saves where successes do not end the spell.

Befuddlement has saves every 30 days and tells you it ends on a success.

Blindness/Deafness has a duration, multiple saves, and tells you that a success ends it.

Call Lightning has a duration and doesn't end on a success (it's half damage).

Cloudkill has a duration and doesn't end when a creature succeeds its save.

 
Antipathy/Sympathy is a level 8 spell with a casting time of 1 hour and doesn't deal any damage. Not really comparable (but it's a great application for a Wish spell).

Befuddlement is also level 8, and note that the damage is only on the initial save here. And still these 2 are meant to be very powerful tier 3-4 spells.

Blindness/Deafness doesn't do any damage, but I'll give you that it indeed doesn't require concentration. Most likely because the CC effect is mild compared to Tasha's Hideous Laughter. Doesn't deal damage

Call Lightning's duration doesn't end on a success because that duration is to maintain the ability to conjure lightning again (like Witch Bolt and Sunbeam)

Cloudkill is a lingering AoE like Fog Cloud and Stinking Cloud, that's what you keep concentrating on. Contagion doesn't have that.

Contagion is a level 5 spell that deals a lot of damage on a failed save, and then inflicts a powerful debilitating condition, without requiring concentration. That's already really good for a level 5 spell. The only reason why I rarely use it personally is because the best effect of the spell happens only if the target takes the Poisoned condition, to which most high level enemies are immune.

Quote from sabin76>>

Antipathy/Sympathy has saves where successes do not end the spell.

The target of the spell isn't the one making the saving throws. The target is one creature or object, that then has an AoE around it (weird that they didn't call it an Emanation in the 5.5 version) forcing other creatures to save against an effect. Heck, you could cast A/S, and no one ever makes a saving throw against it at all

Not at all comparable to contagion, where the target is making the save(s) immediately upon casting

Call Lightning has a duration and doesn't end on a success (it's half damage).

Cloudkill has a duration and doesn't end when a creature succeeds its save.

Same with these. Call Lightning creates a cloud in the sky that shoots lightning bolts. Cloudkill creates, well, a cloud that kills. Those are the ongoing effects of the spell -- and again, you could cast them and no one ever has to make a save against them at all, as Aabria Iyengar demonstrated in a recent episode of Critical Role where she basically just ended up using Call Lightning to boost the Intimidation checks for her very pissed-off druid. There are plenty of other examples too, like spirit guardians and such -- not at all the same

Quote from sabin76>>

Befuddlement has saves every 30 days and tells you it ends on a success.

Right, it's very explicit on what its effects are. It also has a duration of Instantaneous. So clearly something different is going on

Blindness/Deafness has a duration, multiple saves, and tells you that a success ends it.

Also save or suck, and also a spell that doesn't list any effects for an initial success -- because an initial success ends the spell. This is the only actual comparable to contagion among the five

Lastly, I'm not seeing anywhere in the rules that a spell ends when its effects do. It's certainly a logical conclusion, but without it being in the rules, we must assume that a spell lasts its duration until it is ended by one of the ways the rules outline ending a spell can occur.

They dropped the What is a Spell? section of the PHB when moving from 5 to 5.5, but the first sentence there was

A spell is a discrete magical effect, a single shaping of the magical energies that suffuse the multiverse into a specific, limited expression.

If that discrete effect ends, the spell ends, because they're the same thing

However, the 5.5 PHB does say this about saving throws

Many spells specify that a target makes a saving throw to avoid some or all of a spell’s effects.

If a spell's description doesn't say what effects there are on a successful initial save (such as half damage), there are none. Whether you want to split semantic hairs on whether that means the spell itself has ended or not really doesn't matter at the table -- the spell can't do anything to the target after that initial save has been passed

Quote from AntonSirius >>

However, the 5.5 PHB does say this about saving throws

Many spells specify that a target makes a saving throw to avoid some or all of a spell’s effects.

 

If a spell's description doesn't say what effects there are on a successful initial save (such as half damage), there are none. Whether you want to split semantic hairs on whether that means the spell itself has ended or not really doesn't matter at the table -- the spell can't do anything to the target after that initial save has been passed

This is where I disagree.  A spell will tell you what happens on a success or failure. If it doesn't say anything happens on a success, then nothing happens on a success, but that doesn't mean the spell has ended. That was my point in highlighting all of those spells above (I stopped after reaching the C's in the spell list, as I wasn't going to go through all of them). Sure, a spell that is doing nothing is "effectively" ended, but then there are cases where a success clearly doesn't end the spell and I was simply pointing out that Contagion could be one of those. 

Quote from sabin76 >>

 but then there are cases where a success clearly doesn't end the spell and I was simply pointing out that Contagion could be one of those. 

You didn't find one, though. None of the spells you listed keep going after the target of the spell makes its initial save. Three of them don't have a target that requires an initial save, one of them only tells you what happens on a fail -- which means nothing happens on a success, including the spell continuing -- and the fifth does half damage only on a save, because that's all it says it does

As gets said so many times, spells only do what they say they do. None of the spells you listed say they linger on after the target makes its initial save