Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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The 10' rule appears to be intended to avoid accidentally ending the spell by jostling it. Honestly, it's not a great solution to the problem of "it's a trap spell, no using it as an offensive spell", as it can still be used for offense with unusual setups and winds up failing as a trap spell entirely by accident (someone picks up the book, puts it in their pack, and decides to read it later. Guess that glyph of warding was useless).
Why are you even assuming the symbol is glowing the full duration?
"Once triggered, the glyph glows, filling a 60-foot-radius Sphere with Dim Light for 10 minutes, after which time the spell ends."
The symbol glows. It doesn't say anything about the symbol KEEPS glowing. Once the aura is created, the symbol has no purpose.
Which means moving it doesn't matter, it's already spent.
Because any source of light needs to be kept on for the light to stay...
And there is nothing in the spell saying that the sphere of light remains while its source disappears.
At this point, the same observation can be made for a Torch.
It doesn't say there that the light of the Torch goes out after being extinguished, but we all assume so, and nothing says otherwise.
How much mental gymnastics am I going to see on this thread to justify an interpretation that doesn't make any sense?
I mean, it doesn't say that the fabric of reality remains intact when you cast this spell, so I guess it means it breaks completely?
At this point, nothing will surprise me...
What I'm trying to say is: as soon as we start making things up to fill the gaps in our interpretation, there should be an alarm going off in our heads saying "Something's wrong here". We should not have to do that, especially when we fill the gaps with things that throw out all common sense, like "the light stays but the glowing stops", just because we absolutely want to avoid an interpretation that we don't personally feel is balanced.
Respectfully, you're doing some mental gymnastics yourself to justify the very specific interpretation you have in mind.
There've been a number of mechanical aspects highlighted which challenge your approach, particularly the fact that the triggered effect is a Sphere, not an Emanation. It's also pretty weird to tie a 7th-level AOE trap to a glowing glyph if that lets your intruder just... close the book/chest/whatever and avoid the effect because the light's obscured, or toss the offending item across the room until the effect dissipates.
It's pretty clear that Symbol is intended to protect specific locations, much like a physical trap, and that making the effect mobile goes against this. If you don't want to run it that way, that's up to you - rule it however you like at your table. But at this stage, challenging every interpretation that doesn't match your own suggests you're not actually looking for input on the rules, so much as asking for validation of the approach you already want to take.
I don't deny that I had to make assumptions of my own, but all the objections I've met so far only hold to that Sphere/Emanation distinction, which is a new thing in 2024, and the "Sphere" in the Symbol spell's description was left unchanged. All of this points to an oversight.
While all the alternative explanations I've seen for how the spell should behave in edges cases for it being static either go against every rule of common sense, or straight up invents new rules to fill the gaps. This has nothing to do with validation. I'm just applying Occam's razor here.
Really, which is the most ludicrous assumption here?
- That the glyph detaches itself from the support its inscribed on while the object moves and floats in midair
- That the glyph glow's light becomes independent from the glyph, which stops glowing but the sphere of light stays
- That a sphere of light created by a glow from an object that can move within 10ft wasn't meant to be 100% static
And to be blunt, our perceived balance is irrelevant to the discussion, especially when now shape-shifting allows players to use Legendary Actions, it goes to say that balance isn't a measure of RAI. Balancing the game is not our job, at least not outside our own table.
But even then, in terms of balance, it doesn't change much. If we suppose that the spell would end after the glyph being moved more than 10ft from its original position, despite the spell's wording (which I'm starting to agree with), being able to move the glyph and the light it creates within 10ft doesn't change much in terms of balance. It doesn't make the spell much stronger really, between being able to move within 10ft, and not moving at all. But this idea that the spell effects is 100% static despite what the spell says (and it says it so clearly I'm tempted to invoke "specific beats general") completely breaks the spell's description, which I simply don't agree with.
Not really
No one said anything about the object or glyph "floating in midair". The interpretation proposed is that once the glyph is triggered, the effect remains in place even if the object and (now expended) glyph get moved. Which is entirely reasonable given that it's described as a Sphere and not an Emanation. The glyph and the effect are not the same thing, any more than a spell scroll and a spell are the same thing, or a glyph of warding and the spell it contains
The 60-foot sphere of dim light marks where the magical effect is taking place, yes. Nothing in the spell description says the glyph stops glowing... but nothing says the glyph continues to glow either. It only says that it glows when it's triggered. It's irrelevant to how the spell functions and would be pure flavor whether it flares up and then fades out, or stays lit up the entire 10 minutes. Again, there's nothing far-fetched about either approach. Different casters might even have the glow of their Symbols work differently
I genuinely have no idea what you're even trying to say here
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That if you have an object that can move (even only 10ft from an origin point), and that object glows, and the light from that glow forms a sphere of light, then arguing that this sphere of light is completely static just because the word used is "sphere" is preposterous. That's what I'm saying.
Technically the spell never says that the light has anything to do with the negative spell effects. If it did, the spell would probably say something about the effects being canceled or the spell ending if in an area of magical darkness of 6th level or higher (or something like that). The way the spell reads there is a light the fills the sphere, and then an entirely separate harmful effect. I would equate it to the Twilight Sanctuary Channel Divinity from the 5e Twilight Cleric. Again, that sphere (although in 5.5e it would most likely be an "emanation") is filled with dim light, but the positive effects of the Sanctuary don't require you to be in dim light, just within the sphere (so someone casting Daylight within the sphere would not block its positive effects).
I do think the question of how the light works if the Symbol is within a chest or something, and someone closes the chest, is a question worth exploring. Intuitively one would think that blocking the glowing Glyph would block the light, however the wording of Symbol simply states that the sphere is "filled with Dim Light". If we contrast that to a spell like Daylight, it says "sunlight spreads from a point...". Looking at the spell Light, we again see "the object sheds Bright Light..." The spell Wall of Light also states "It emits bright light...". The language for Symbol doesn't share this type of language. It simply says the Sphere is filled with Dim Light.
To be fair, it does say "The Glyph glows, filling the Sphere with Dim Light", which could be interpreted as the glowing from the symbol being the source of the light. Very technically, it does not say that the light "spreads" or "sheds" or is "emitted" by the symbol, so a very strict reading might suggest the light fills the sphere regardless of if the chest the symbol is within is closed or not. If that is the case, however, it would beg the question of if the effect of the sphere could penetrate dungeon walls. If the sides and lid of the chest would not provide total cover from the effect, then why would dungeon walls. I'm not convinced on that point, though, as I'm sure there are some rules about "line of sight" and "cover" and whatnot that I'm missing.
Note too that in general, baring something like Mage Hand, Unseen Servant, or Telekinesis, you would usually have to also be within the Sphere to move the object, which would subject you to the negative effects of the spell. So the tradeoff for being able to move the sphere 10ft is probably not worth it.
Contrary to what I assumed earlier, it indeed doesn't. Neither spheres nor emanations spread around corners unless the spell specifies otherwise. And I'll admit that it makes the trap weaker than saying "the glyph briefly glows and creates a sphere of harmful effect, which lingers for 10 minutes". But if this was the intent, they would have written it as clearly as I just did, and they didn't.
Despite the numerous concerns I've seen on this thread, Symbol is indeed a difficult spell to weaponize. You'd have to use Wish to get it out instantly and for free, and you'd probably need to be a Sorcerer and use Careful Spell to not be caught in your own spell along with your allies. Then, like you said, use Mage Hand or something similar to keep some mobility. Not impossible, but that's quite the setup.
You are confusing the object for the spell effect. It's not preposterous
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's also not what the spell is saying. The sphere of light is just a sphere of light, it doesn't come from the glyph.
There are many things in the rules that could be written more clearly, and haven't been. I would not interpret lack of clarity as meaning anything other than the author's field of expertise not being technical writing.
"the glyph glows, filling a 60-foot-radius Sphere with Dim Light"
Yes it does.