Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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The spells mention: "If you choose an object, it must remain in place; if it is moved more than 10 feet from where you cast this spell, the glyph is broken, and the spell ends without being triggered."
The "without being triggered" part explicitly indicates that this rule is meant to apply before the spells are triggered, and only to the glyphs themselves, not to the effect they trigger. Meaning that if you correctly identify a Symbol trap on a table, then simply move the table 15ft away, it's enough to deactivate the trap. But you can't do so after triggering the trap, right?
With that in mind, if someone activates a Glyph of Warding with Spirit Guardians on a book, and then moves the book after the spell is triggered, the effect should move freely with the book without being dispelled, right?
That would seem to be correct.
No, the book is inconsequential as soon as the glyph is triggered. Also note that Spirit Guardians targets creatures (it is a Range: Self spell) not objects. As per the Glyph of Warding spell "If the spell has a target, it targets the creature that triggered the glyph. If the spell affects an area, the area is centered on that creature.".
So if someone triggers the guardian glyph they don't need the book, the spell will centre on them automatically.
Oh, you're right, I missed that. Thank you :)
That's what would happen for Symbol though, right? For that spell, the effect seems to be originating from the glyph itself:
There is nothing there that allows it to move and thus it doesn't.
But there's also nothing in there that forces the object on which the glyph was inscribed to stay still... The book, chest, or whatever was used doesn't get the effect of an Immovable Rod, does it? And the glyph should stay on the object it was created, because like you said, nothing in there says that the glyph moves.
And like you said earlier, the glyph only breaks if it is moved before it is triggered.
So if the object can still be moved without breaking the effect after it's been triggered, and the glyph cannot move relatively to the object it was created on, this means that moving the object also moves to glyph along with it.
You can move the book, but that does not move the Symbol effect. That effect appears centred on the creature who triggers the glyph, and then remains stationary - no connection remains with the book.
You're getting confused with Glyph of Warding. Symbol works differently: the glyph itself glows, and the light from that glow creates a sphere in which the effect is applied every round for 10 minutes.
Symbol uses a Sphere AoE, which does not move unless the spell explicitly says it moves.
There is a separate type of AoE, Emanation, for effects that are centered on a creature or object and automatically move when that thing moves. If the intent were for the Symbol effect to move with the thing the glyph is on, it would use an Emanation AoE rather than a Sphere.
pronouns: he/she/they
That would seem to be correct. The AoE is described as being specifically tied to the glyph, so if the glyph moves, the AoE would move
EDIT: I will say the thing that gives me a bit of pause is that they did a 5.5 rewrite of the spell and chose to call the AoE a Sphere and not an Emanation, which at least suggests the intent is for the effect to be stationary
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Either way, in my home campaign there's definitely going to be a powerful caster with a lot of pets, all of whom have collars with a homebrew version of Symbol on them. If you don't greet the pet by name, the Symbol activates and on a failed Wisdom save, you must spend the next 10 minutes giving skritches and treats to that pet
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The thing is that if the effect is stationary, then something nonsensical and absolutely not mentioned in the spell's description must happen:
- The object that was used to inscribe the glyph becomes magically anchored in place like an Immovable Rod and cannot be moved by any means.
- The object can be moved, but the glyph magically detaches itself from the object and glows in midair without being attached to anything.
Both of these options require much more suspension of disbelief than just having the glow move with the object on which the glyph in inscribed.
I think the real reason why the glyph's glow is not an Emanation is simply because Emanations do not go around corners from the origin, but spheres do, and the devs probably didn't want it to be as easy to get rid of the effect as closing the book/chest.
The second option you've described is how the spell behaves.
I'm not going to entirely disagree, but the rules still say what they say; according to the rules, the effect doesn't move, no matter how difficult that is to believe.
This is not correct; there's no difference between a Sphere and an Emanation in this regard.
pronouns: he/she/they
I guess the question is then if someone cast Symbol on a book, and then another creature triggered the Symbol, and then threw the book 15 feet, would the spell end?
Even if we assume that the AoE of the Symbol will not move with the object, the spell states that the Glyph glows, filling the Sphere with Dim Light, and that Sphere is the boundary for the effect of the spell. So if you then break the Glyph by moving it more than 10 feet, does the spell end after it has been triggered, or does the object just not matter at all anymore? If you move the book 5 feet, does the sphere of Dim Light move at all, but the harmful effects remain centered on the point of origin? If you put the Glyph in a treasure chest, once it has been triggered does closing the chest block the Dim Light? I assume the harmful effects and the Dim Light are not tied together, so blocking the light wouldn't mitigate the negative effects.
Nothing in the spell says it behaves like that.
Nothing in the rules says that the effect doesn't move at all, especially along with the object on which it is inscribed. I don't know where you got that. If I missed something, show me where it says that the effect must remain stationary after the glyph is triggered.
The wording on the spell is definitely a little clunky; however, like most other commenters, I'm inclined to believe that the intent is for the effect to end when the object is moved.
Whilst the spell doesn't make specific provision for moving the object after the spell has triggered, it does say, "If you choose an object, it must remain in place; if it is moved more than 10 feet from where you cast this spell, the glyph is broken, and the spell ends without being triggered." After the effect is triggered, it goes on to say, "Once triggered, the glyph glows, filling a 60-foot-radius Sphere with Dim Light for 10 minutes, after which time the spell ends. Each creature in the Sphere when the glyph activates is targeted by its effect..."
That would suggest to me that:
A, the sphere is contingent on the glyph being active, and
B, that the glyph does not remain intact if the object is moved more than ten feet from the casting location.
With that in mind, I'd argue that the effect can't persist through movement.
"the spell ends without being triggered." makes it quite explicit that this set of rules only applies before the spell is triggered. After which, it obeys a new set of rules, which does not include any restrictions for movements. Which makes sense for a trap. If the trap could be deactivated by simply throwing the book after opening it, it wouldn't be much of a trap...
I think that is one way to read it, but I believe the intended way to read it is that breaking the Glyph in this way (moving the object more than 10 feet) ends the Symbol spell without triggering the negative effects. It isn't stating that this can only occur before the spell is triggered. It is saying that breaking the Glyph in this way does not activate the negative effects of the spell.
I agree the spell could be worded a lot better and made to be more clear on its intentions.
It's not explicit - that's the problem. If it was, there wouldn't be any scope for debate.
Apologies, that's my bad - I meant to clarify that the effect should persist in place. But to follow your argument, it's not much of a trap if you can just toss the book across the room, either. Which brings us back around to the interpretation that the glyph triggers, the sphere appears, and then the sphere persists in the triggered location for the duration, regardless of where the object goes.
If that was true, they would have worded it differently. The "without being triggered" part makes it clear that when they wrote this part of the spell, they were considering the situation before the spell is triggered. They didn't write this part with the behavior of the glow effect after the spell is triggered in mind. If they had, they wouldn't have worded it this way.
The thing is that the effect is inflicted by the glowing of the glyph. They can't be separated.
Spells do what they say they do. They don't do things they don't say they do. The spell doesn't say the effect moves, so the effect doesn't move.
And again, there is a specific type of AoE for effects that are centered on an object or creature and move when that object or creature moves: the Emanation. Other AoE types do not move unless something explicitly says they do.
Since this effect doesn't use an Emanation AoE, it doesn't behave like an Emanation AoE. It uses a Sphere AoE, so it behaves like a Sphere AoE, which doesn't move unless something explicitly says it does.
pronouns: he/she/they