Lightning Lure and Distant Spell

Something weird about the Lightning Lure is that DnDB gives it a range of "self" and an area of "15ft", leading me to wonder if its range is indeed doubled by the Distant Spell Metamagic. In the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide book, the spell's text simply says "Range: 15 feet", so I'm inclined to follow the book over what DnDB says.

Another thing that I'm wondering is the 10ft pulling distance is also doubled. I think it would just make sense, but RAW, it doesn't appear to be the case. It all depends if you consider these 10ft a "range".

Quote from Natrel >>

Something weird about the Lightning Lure is that DnDB gives it a range of "self" and an area of "15ft", leading me to wonder if its range is indeed doubled by the Distant Spell Metamagic. In the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide book, the spell's text simply says "Range: 15 feet", so I'm inclined to follow the book over what DnDB says.

 
As a point of note, the range was errata'd to "Self (15-foot radius)", so that's the one to go by. Presumably this was specifically to prevent players from using features like Distant Spell to get up to weird forced-movement hijinks.

Quote from Natrel >>

Another thing that I'm wondering is the 10ft pulling distance is also doubled. I think it would just make sense, but RAW, it doesn't appear to be the case. It all depends if you consider these 10ft a "range".

 
Sort of moot in light of the above, but the 10ft pull distant wouldn't be doubled even if Distant Spell did apply. Distant Spell only doubles the spell's range, which is a specific and isolated figure - the 10ft forced movement is part of the spell's effect, and therefore not included.

Quote from Official_FBI>>

As a point of note, the range was errata'd to "Self (15-foot radius)", so that's the one to go by. Presumably this was specifically to prevent players from using features like Distant Spell to get up to weird forced-movement hijinks.

 
I don't think so, because they also did this with Sword Burst: This spell’s range has been changed to “Self (5-foot radius).”
And Sword Burst is an AoE and Distant Spell doesn't apply AoE, so whatever the reason was for this change, it wasn't to screw over Sorcerers.
Especially since, in the case or Lightning Lure, it's a straight up mistake. Contrary to Sword Burst, Lightning Lure is not an AoE spell. "15 ft" is not an "area".

As written (after errata), mechanically, Lightning Lure is an AoE spell regardless of the flavor of the description.  The "lash of lightning energy" is created at the point of origin, which is at the spellcaster's location (self).  This particular AoE only affects one creature of your choice that is within the area of this AoE.  The rest of the creatures that are within that area are unaffected by it.

"You create a lash of lightning energy that strikes at one creature of your choice that you can see within 15 feet of you." contradicts the idea that the spell is an AoE. The description, with this sentence, says that it's not an AoE.

An AoE has a shape, as described in the glossary: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/rules-glossary#AreaofEffect

Lightning Lure's effect doesn't have a shape, so it's not an AoE. I'm not against RAW, but we have to keep at least a modicum of common sense, here.

Quote from Natrel >>

 
I don't think so, because they also did this with Sword Burst: This spell’s range has been changed to “Self (5-foot radius).”
And Sword Burst is an AoE and Distant Spell doesn't apply AoE, so whatever the reason was for this change, it wasn't to screw over Sorcerers.
Especially since, in the case or Lightning Lure, it's a straight up mistake. Contrary to Sword Burst, Lightning Lure is not an AoE spell. "15 ft" is not an "area".

 
In the original printing of SCaG Sword Burst had a range of 5 ft., meaning that it was also open to the same issue. It was the same for Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade (which were the subject of a number of reach-exploiting builds at the time) and it's likely why all four of these cantrips underwent a similar edit.

Regardless, RAW is clear that Distant Spell doesn't affect Lightning Lure.

For all the other 3 spells you mentioned, the correction makes sense. Sword Burst is actually an AoE spell, with a real AoE. Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade are buff spells to your weapon, so it's normal they don't have a Range. Lightning Lure, there is no reason I can see, and unless I get one, I'm treating this as a mistake.
And don't tell me it's a matter of balance. Thorn Whip has a range of 30ft and nobody thinks that's a problem.

Quote from Natrel >>

Lightning Lure, there is no reason I can see, and unless I get one, I'm treating this as a mistake.

Hey, rule it however you like at your own table. That's your prerogative. I'm just answering the question you asked based on the published rules and errata.

If interested for more insight the Devs discussed spells with Range Self ( X feet) in DragonTalk Podcast Sage Advice - Targeting Revisited (5:28)

Essentially this

Jeremy Crawford: the reason why some of these spells have this self parentheses range is we are signalling to the reader this point of origin cannot move

Ok so nothing to do with Distant Spell. Thanks for the help.

Quote from Plaguescarred >>

Essentially this

Jeremy Crawford: the reason why some of these spells have this self parentheses range is we are signalling to the reader this point of origin cannot move

Honestly, this explanation is total nonsense.  He has been historically terrible whenever discussing this topic and overall, he is often quite bad when discussing many rules topics off the cuff when he is put on the spot to explain something.

Quote from Natrel >>

Thorn Whip has a range of 30ft and nobody thinks that's a problem.

The difference here is that Thorn Whip involves making an attack roll, so it's standard for the Range parameter to reflect how far away you are able to make such an attack.  While the spell effect will technically originate at that distant location, it is understood that an attack roll functions by an attack being generated from the spellcaster which targets some other creature.  In this case, Lightning Lure creates a saving throw spell effect.  Flavor-wise, they wanted this effect to lash out from the spellcaster at a target creature -- the only way to really do that is to declare the spellcaster as the point of origin and create a designated area that is affected by this spell effect (which makes it an AoE).  Who knows why they didn't choose to write it like Thorn Whip with an attack roll mechanic?  That probably would have made more sense for this spell, but they did it this way instead.

FWIW, Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade are also AoE spells for this same reason, but people typically get even more upset when this is pointed out about those spells.  Those spells are even more non-standard because they actually do use the attack roll mechanic.  In those cases, what they should have done is to define the spell as Touch Range and then explicitly declare within the spell description that your Reach for that particular attack is 5 feet.  But they didn't do that, so we are left with a couple of poorly written spells which use the AoE mechanic in an odd way.

Quote from Plaguescarred >>

If interested for more insight the Devs discussed spells with Range Self ( X feet) in DragonTalk Podcast Sage Advice - Targeting Revisited (5:28)

 Yeah, and this is the relevant part of the transcription, in case it's of interest to you, @Natrel, or anyone else. It includes the reasons for the changes, and also explains how Range and Self should be understood.

Worth noting, the 5.5e rules no longer use the "Range: Self (X radius, line, etc.)" notation used in the 5e PHB. They've been updated to just "Range: Self", but how Range works is the same under the new rules and clearer IMO.

Quote from Tarod_ >>

The video linked by @Plaguescarred is nice.

You may or may not agree with Jeremy Crawford's explanation, but he clearly states the intent behind changing the spell's range to Self (5 ft radius), the importance of reading the spell entry to understand who the target is, and the discussion about the War Caster feat.

(emphasis mine)

timestamp: the reason why some of these spells have this self parentheses range is we are signalling to the reader this point of origin cannot move

timestamp: in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything we have some spells that actually appeared in an earlier DnD book (Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide) that now reappear and their range changed and that change has naturally caused some questions. Their ranges originally were that simple X ft meaning it could have the point of origin of the spell [...] over there. So these spells were spells like Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade which when you then read them you see: I'm actually making a weapon attack with these spells and these were actually unusual spells when we wrote them because we had not yet created at that point spells that incorporated into themselves an attack. We had spells like the Paladin's smite spells in the PHB that enhanced attacks but did not include within them the weapon attack itself. Here we experimented with that and to be totally frank the original range entries were wrong [...]

timestamp: we were looking at the spells and realized these range entries are simply wrong because like Burning Hands like Color Spray like Lightning Bolt you swinging your weapon can never originate any farther away than yourself. Saying range X feet was simply an error and so we fixed it. So now they have a range of self with a parentheses 5 ft radius and then inside the spell you read: okay you brandish the weapon you used as a part of the spell casting and you target somebody within this radius [...]

timestamp: Question: How does this interact with metamagic specifically twinning of spells. Answer: This does make the spell ineligible for being twinned because a twin spell does not allow you to twin a spell with a range of Self. Because these ranges have the word Self in them they are not twinnable and that's by design. Honestly these never were meant to be twinnable because again their range was was actually always incorrect  [...]

timestamp: people also have wondered how did these interact with War Caster. A feat that allows you to make an opportunity attack with a spell as long as you target only one thing with that opportunity attack. And so then the question is "Can you use booming blade with its new range of self parentheses to make that opportunity attack as defined by War Caster?". The answer is yes and the reason why it goes back to what I was saying about our rules on Range where you'll notice that as soon as we get to the Self parentheses part we don't talk about you targeting yourself because spells in this category you have to look at the spell to see what exactly are you targeting because all Self parentheses tells us some magic is extending out from me [and] we'll see who are,  what it's targeting, and in the case of Booming Blade who or what's being targeted is the person you attack with it [...]

Quote from Tarod_ >>

Worth noting, the 5.5e rules no longer use the "Range: Self (X radius, line, etc.)" notation used in the 5e PHB. They've been updated to just "Range: Self", but how Range works is the same under the new rules and clearer IMO.

 

I agree that the new notation and design framework for how spells like this are written has been greatly improved.  If this spell were rewritten for the current PHB and simply said "Range: Self" while making no mention of something like an Emanation for the effect, then we would conclude that that version of the spell is indeed not an AoE but is instead just a spell that is cast on the spellcaster with an effect that extends beyond the range in the manner described.